Why do we humans need to reduce the bear population?

[Arden]

The widest, and possibly the longest bear hunt is set to open in New Jersey on Monday 12/7. It is very difficult for me, as a hiker and a nature enthusiast to understand the thinking that goes into making decisions like this. Why are some estimated 3500 black bears in the state too many?
I read an article in my local newspaper that stated a simple fact: If humans were more careful about how they dispose of food scraps, and didn't go so far as to feed the bears (deliberately), we would not need to reduce the bear population. Yet no one has attempted to write legislation to "seal the lid" on trash cans, and impose heavy fines, and even jail time (or at least community service) for those who feed bears.
It's a simple problem, with a simple solution - and killing 20% of the bear population is not the solution.

If we humans didn't continue to invade the bears' territory by tearing down forests to build homes, we wouldn't have the problem. The main reason New Jersey has such a problem with bears, is that people have pushed their homes into the bears' territory, giving the bears easy meals, and causing them to habituate with man. Then, when the same bears go back into the forest, and come across hikers on the trails, they immediately associate those hikers with food, and begin tracking them. In September, the Ramapo State forest was closed because "aggressive bears" were tracking hikers.

I rarely hike in New Jersey because of the bear problem; especially during the warmer months. I have already decided that if I want to complete the AT in sections, I will be doing the New Jersey section in the dead of winter - when bears are hibernating, and humans are mostly indoors.

picnic_table_bear.jpg

Please do your share to save the bears!

Arden

[Sarcasm the elf]

Hey Grayblazer, do you know this guy?

[Dogwood]

No, leave it up there so I can send them to the longest post in WB history when they start ragging on the lengths of my posts.

This is not new Arden. Humanity as a whole has a human centric approach to the Universe. Much of humanity has been taught and consequently believes and behaves like everything should be theirs, it's all about survival of the fittest, that humans are separate from and above the environment/Nature. And, when push comes to shove the human animal/predator is very adept at forcibly shoving.

What you're supposing, because you have broken away from that self absorbed human centric mindset that lacks empathy and is fraught with ignorant self interest, is considering humanity as bonded/connected to the natural environment/Nature, NOT separate from it. You're perceiving a greater need for human responsibility so to coexist in a larger "web of LIFE" in the Universe. Many humans having that greater awareness have expressed this need IF humanity is to survive.

[coach lou]

I have walked the NJ section in 3 pieces......no bears.......I guess my camp was too clean. I work in the Greater Harriman Park, 5 bears! No maulings, no tracking, we leave our lunches in our day packs in a pile, near the work sites..........no problems...........I guess we make too much noise.

[Don H]

If NJ is like most states they calculate the bear capacity of the available habitat and adjust populations accordingly. This prevents major (and actually natural) wild swings in populations due to disease. Anytime any living thing exceeds the capacity of its environment nature will make the adjustment. We instead do it in a more humane way, and yes dying by a hunter's bullet is more humane than starving.

The real problem is not people feeding or leaving garbage out for bears, it's really people invading their habitat by developing the land for housing. So unless you're willing to tell people give up their homes and allow nature to take its course than we need to manage wildlife populations.

[Coffee]

Some amount of hunting establishes a food chain hierarchy and perpetuates a natural fear that black bears should have for human beings and therefore is likely to limit human/bear interactions. But I'm not sure how much hunting is needed for that effect, if any. I've done a fair bit of hiking in Shenandoah National Park which has a very high bear density. I have seen several bears, usually as they run away. And I've never had issues in camp with a bear. I don't think there have been any bear caused human fatalities in the park either. So I'm skeptical that hunting is needed to reinforce the bears natural fear of humans. That doesn't mean I oppose all hunting because I do not. Personally I have a problem with hunting for sport and less of a problem with hunting if the meat is actually consumed. Just my personal opinion.

[Slo-go'en]

Since we have eliminated all the other predators which might have kept the bear population in check, we have to do it instead. Besides, who doesn't want a nice bear rug in the den anyway?

[Coffee]

Since we have eliminated all the other predators which might have kept the bear population in check, we have to do it instead. Besides, who doesn't want a nice bear rug in the den anyway?

I thought the black bear has long been at or near the top of the food chain along the AT corridor? Other than humans what natural predators existed above bears in the food chain historically?

[TexasBob]

I thought the black bear has long been at or near the top of the food chain along the AT corridor? Other than humans what natural predators existed above bears in the food chain historically?

Depends on what you mean by top of the food chain. Top predators in Virginia historically would have been the mountain lion and wolves. If you mean did anything prey on bears, the answer would be probably only other bears.

[Uriah]

I thought the black bear has long been at or near the top of the food chain along the AT corridor? Other than humans what natural predators existed above bears in the food chain historically?

The Eastern Timber Wolf, long since missing from the Appalachians (due to man, naturally...or unnaturally, really), had been known to kill black bears when in their preferred pack mode. Mountain lions (the true apex predator) will easily kill younger or weaker bears, when need be. Once these creatures were pushed away, or mostly pushed away in the case of the cat, the bears could rule the kingdom. At least until man does his usual intervening (what he thinks of as 'controlling'.)

[egilbe]

Last Black Bear caused death in the US was in NJ last Summer. The bear preyed on an Indian student who was out hiking with a group. Hungry bears lose their fear of man. Hunting bears reduce the population so there is enough food for the remaining bears and surviving bears learn to fear man again, so Indian students can continue to walk through the woods unmolested...by bears, anyway.

[Coffee]

The Eastern Timber Wolf, long since missing from the Appalachians (due to man, naturally...or unnaturally, really), had been known to kill black bears when in their preferred pack mode. Mountain lions (the true apex predator) will easily kill younger or weaker bears, when need be. Once these creatures were pushed away, or mostly pushed away in the case of the cat, the bears could rule the kingdom. At least until man does his usual intervening (what he thinks of as 'controlling'.)

Interesting... I figured that mountain lions could kill a smaller bear but didn't think that a wolf had that capability.

[Arden]

Hey guys; I want to make sure you all know that my "longest post ever" was completely unintentional. I pasted an image of a black bear into my post. The image was visible in the editor, so I thought it was OK. But instead of pressing the Preview button, I mistakenly pressed the Post button, and the post was submitted. What appeared instead was the binary file of the image, which as you may know, is just translated into ASCII characters by the forum software. I suppose that this is how terrorists embed messages into images. They manually edit the image file to create the messages, which leaves the image in-tact with no visible changes, but when the binary is opened by someone knowing where to look, the message is clear.
I hit the "report" button for the post, and left Admin a message to delete it. That is all I can do for now. However, I have made a donation to this forum, so as soon as the Admin processes the receipt of my PayPal payment, I should be able to edit my own posts.

[Arden]

About the bear "problem" in NJ and elsewhere. I feel that man is in the wrong in pushing his habitat into the wilderness. If we need more space in our cities, we can build up instead of out. However, it is probably less expensive, and more desirable to build new communities in unpopulated areas. Some prefer to live on the outskirts of the city, while still taking advantage of what the city has to offer. They jump into their cars, and clog the highways each workday, but feel that the commute is worth the hassle so they can live far from the city.

I suppose those who advocate a hunt to control the black bear population have a point, but as was also said, if we hadn't already eliminated many of the bear's food sources, there would be no need for a hunt. Except for the "bear rug" in the den, what other use is there for a killed bear? I've had venison once, and didn't like it. I would think bear would be even less tasty.

It was tragic that the Indian student died as a result of the bear attack, but he and the group made at least two serious mistakes that day: First, they split up, and second, he ran from the bear. At least that's what I read on the incident.

The only "encounters" I have had with black bears were non-threatening for either me or the bear. I was at a good distance, and gave the bear plenty of room to saunter away. I was quite impressed by a large black bear I saw at the Silvermine picnic area in Harriman park a few years ago. He was several hundred feet from me, was just sauntering through the picnic area looking for scraps I guess, checked me out for a second, then continued on his way. I waited until he was out of sight before I continued across his path.

Another time I was bike riding in the Lehigh Gorge in the Poconos when I came across a mother bear and two cubs. The mother and cubs were on opposite sides of the bike path, and I knew better than to cross their path, so I waited until they had all left.

My point is that all it takes is common sense, and a little bit of education for a human to do the right thing when encountering a bear, or other large animal.

Oh, and one more thing: I have been using a bear canister on my backpacking treks rather than hanging my food. Despite the canister's nearly 3 lbs weight, I prefer it, and I believe that more parks are requiring them, because the bears are learning to take down even a well hung bear bag.

Arden

[TexasBob]

........If we need more space in our cities, we can build up instead of out. However, it is probably less expensive, and more desirable to build new communities in unpopulated areas. Some prefer to live on the outskirts of the city, while still taking advantage of what the city has to offer. They jump into their cars, and clog the highways each workday, but feel that the commute is worth the hassle so they can live far from the city..........Arden

One reason for the problem is the population of the US has doubled in my life time (from 162 million to 320 million). I think we lose sight of the fact that every year we grow by about 2 million people and they all have to live somewhere. I worry about our population and the problems it causes but I have no practical answers. It strikes me that the bears have the same problem we do - their population is growing larger but the resources aren't.

[Hosh]

Managing populations of various wild animals happens all the time. Whether it's bears, elk, grouse, turkeys or greenback trout. Thankfully these decisions are made by people who understand the environments and habitats.

Pretty sure not everyone wants to live in a high rise building staring at a brick wall and riding a train to work

[Astro]

Managing populations of various wild animals happens all the time. Whether it's bears, elk, grouse, turkeys or greenback trout. Thankfully these decisions are made by people who understand the environments and habitats.

Pretty sure not everyone wants to live in a high rise building staring at a brick wall and riding a train to work

Very well stated.

[Dogwood]

About the bear "problem" in NJ and elsewhere. I feel that man is in the wrong in pushing his habitat into the wilderness. If we need more space in our cities, we can build up instead of out. However, it is probably less expensive, and more desirable to build new communities in unpopulated areas. Some prefer to live on the outskirts of the city, while still taking advantage of what the city has to offer. They jump into their cars, and clog the highways each workday, but feel that the commute is worth the hassle so they can live far from the city.

I suppose those who advocate a hunt to control the black bear population have a point, but as was also said, if we hadn't already eliminated many of the bear's food sources, there would be no need for a hunt. Except for the "bear rug" in the den, what other use is there for a killed bear? I've had venison once, and didn't like it. I would think bear would be even less tasty.

It was tragic that the Indian student died as a result of the bear attack, but he and the group made at least two serious mistakes that day: First, they split up, and second, he ran from the bear. At least that's what I read on the incident.

The only "encounters" I have had with black bears were non-threatening for either me or the bear. I was at a good distance, and gave the bear plenty of room to saunter away. I was quite impressed by a large black bear I saw at the Silvermine picnic area in Harriman park a few years ago. He was several hundred feet from me, was just sauntering through the picnic area looking for scraps I guess, checked me out for a second, then continued on his way. I waited until he was out of sight before I continued across his path.

Another time I was bike riding in the Lehigh Gorge in the Poconos when I came across a mother bear and two cubs. The mother and cubs were on opposite sides of the bike path, and I knew better than to cross their path, so I waited until they had all left.

My point is that all it takes is common sense, and a little bit of education for a human to do the right thing when encountering a bear, or other large animal.

Oh, and one more thing: I have been using a bear canister on my backpacking treks rather than hanging my food. Despite the canister's nearly 3 lbs weight, I prefer it, and I believe that more parks are requiring them, because the bears are learning to take down even a well hung bear bag.

Arden

AHH, you grasp that YOUR BEHAVIOR as a human factors into bear/human encounters. NOT EVERYONE knows what you do AND MANY HUMANS DESPITE THAT WISDOM BEING SHARED STILL expect bears to automatically change their behaviors to suit human behaviors. That's human centric thinking. This causes HUGE UNTOLD amounts of of destruction to the world when humans stubbornly maintain this ignorant self serving mindset.

I've looked into the account of Mr. Patel's attack. You are absolutely correct in describing his two errors in the encounter. His party made another mistake in that they were already told by a couple coming the other way there was an bear acting aggressively following them just a short ways up the trail. YET, Mt Patel's party chose to ignore that warning, that information, and continued up the trail HEADING TOWARDS that bear anyway.

What you will find Arden is the vast majority of accounts of negative bear/human encounters, IF you research them thoroughly enough, are rooted in problematic human behavior. Yet, humanities' deeply rooted hubris often ignores the responsibility of human behavior in these news accounts. This hubris, human selfishness, and human ignorance contributes to further problems such as humans more willing to exterminate or kill bears rather than find ways to coexist with not only bears but all of the rest of LIFE.

[Dogwood]

Managing populations of various wild animals happens all the time. Whether it's bears, elk, grouse, turkeys or greenback trout. Thankfully these decisions are made by people who understand the environments and habitats.

Pretty sure not everyone wants to live in a high rise building staring at a brick wall and riding a train to work

I'm waiting for the human population to be better managed!

Some of the comments in this thread are prime examples of self absorbed human centric thinking.

[Dogwood]

Since we have eliminated all the other predators which might have kept the bear population in check, we have to do it instead. Besides, who doesn't want a nice bear rug in the den anyway?

This does not compute. Whether bear populations are kept in check by wild predators or NOT there is clear evidence that selfish human centric behavior will still result in competition for resources and humans further decimating the bear populations.