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  1. #1
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    Default Hancocks and Mt Carrigain Loop hike info?

    Hey, I've been searching the web (mostly vftt) for information on hiking this loop but there doesn't seem to be much out there that I can find. I am considering attempting this loop over maybe 3 days (two overnights) this coming weekend and would appreciate any input. Specifically, how are the Cedar Brook Trail, Wilderness Trail, Desolation Trail, and finally the Hancock Notch trail in winter? I would probably start from the sawyer river road walk.

    With the warmer temperatures are the water crossing on the CBT going to be a problem? I hear the hancock notch trail tends to be wet and soggy. Does anyone have any idea of the current conditions of these trails? I don't expect there to be much recent activity so are the trails generally easy to follow after with snow coverage? Suggestions for campsite locations? The two that I would generally think of would be the junction for the hancock loop and near the summit of Carrigain..

    Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by eblanche View Post
    Does anyone have any idea of the current conditions of these trails?
    No recent reports on trail conditions, but keep an eye on these sites:

    http://trailsnh.com/maps/index.php?r...2,-71.392&z=10

    http://www.newenglandtrailconditions.com/nh/

  3. #3
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    I can't speak to this winter, but I have done that loop. Awesome trip! If you can, sleep at the summit of Carrigain.

  4. #4
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    I've done that stretch of Hancock Notch Trail several times, though not in the last year. Done it in deep snow, on a trail bike, and once more in late fall. Starting from the Kanc: it's all flat or easy uphill, till you hit Cedar Brook Trail, at least.

    From where it leaves the Cedar Brook Trail, and heads eastward -- yes, Hancock Notch trail was gnarly and boggy and appeared to be not well traveled. It felt primeval. I've only done that piece once, that was enough.

    Cedar Brook Trail never gets very steep and is mostly quite wide, all the way down to the Wilderness Trail (walking north, as I generally did.) I think that stretch might have been a logging road or railway bed.

    Aa I recall, the "back" side (ie. the west side) of Carrigain is wicked steep. I shudder to think of doing in in winter.

    I can't speak to current conditions, other than some photos folks have posted on Facebook, etc.

  5. #5
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    might also want to lurk at: http://www.vftt.org/forums/ for hints re. current conditions

  6. #6

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    I would expect it to be exceptionally icy. The trails will likely be a ribbon of ice. You'd probably want real crampons, not just microspikes. There is very little snow, even at elevation. With the snow/sleet and then heavy rain expected for tomorrow and into Thursday I would expect high water in any streams. There might be snow flurries on the back side of this storm, which would put a thin layer of snow on top of the ice, making for treacherous conditions. This is not a shaping up to be a nice winter here in the mountains. The ground isn't even very frozen.
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  7. #7

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    CBT is lightly used, if at all, in Winter. That can make pathfinding hard since there are no blazes. I went up last March following faint traces a single skier had left probably a month or more before me. In places it came down to making a guess based on where there was a little bigger space between the trees. With the weather we've had and are expecting you should assume there will be a water crossing near the top that will be flowing but other water is minor on that trail. It was in fact an old logging road down below at least and widens out considerably. Lots of camping options in the section closer to the Wilderness Trail.

    Cedar Brook crossing on the WT will also likely be open water. You may want to try a little up stream for a shallower ford if so. WT crossing just before Stillwater is usually a small flow in a big bed, but with the weather this week hard to say what you'll find there. Tricky crossing if it is flowing wide because of the deep channel to one side. The Stillwater area and the area near the start of the Desolation Trail have lots of winter camp options if weather or preference makes you want to camp down below. Desolation will have had traffic so likely will be packed ice you'll want good spikes or crampons for.

    Let us know what you find when you get back please. Watching long range forecast in hopes of getting an actual Winter trip in the week of the 15th.
    “The man who goes alone can start today; but he who travels with another must wait until that other is ready...”~Henry David Thoreau

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneStranger View Post
    CBT is lightly used, if at all, in Winter. That can make pathfinding hard since there are no blazes. I went up last March following faint traces a single skier had left probably a month or more before me. In places it came down to making a guess based on where there was a little bigger space between the trees.
    That's what makes winter hiking, in the White Mtns., so ...umm... interesting at times, on rarely-traveled trails like that. Those clues that tell you you're on the trail -- many of them disappear. No visible footpath or tracks, and blazes often covered by snow. You can't even make inferences based on the leaf canopy, 'cuz all the trees are bare. The trail looks no different than the surrounding woods.

    It's not usually an issue on the heavily traveled trails, eg., Falling Waters or Bridle Path. Someone's likely to break trail within hours after any given snowfall, so you'll have tracks to follow. (Well, you better hope so, 'cuz it'll be a tough hike if you're that person.)

  9. #9

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    CBT is in the Pemi so there are no blazes unless they missed scrubbing a few off somewhere. Fall is similar to Winter once the leaves fall and you can't see the ground anywhere. You have to use your wits a lot more than when you can just follow the trampled path. I'm always glad I know the trails in that area so well because otherwise I'd be afraid of getting lost.
    “The man who goes alone can start today; but he who travels with another must wait until that other is ready...”~Henry David Thoreau

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    Fwiw I did carrigain last weekend and the trail wasn't icy at all. I walked the Sawyer road and the connecting trail (forgot the name) and then Signal Ridge trail. Actually could have used snowsnoesonce I reachedtge ridge
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  11. #11

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    With all the rain and then drop in temp I expect eroded out trails with ice in them is them is the conditions for the weekend. I expect the heavy rain will raise the gauges on the rivers quickly and then fall quickly although the forecasted warm temps tomorrow will extend things. This link will bring you to the East Branch of the Pemi river gauge http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nh/nwis/uv?site_no=01074520
    Keep an eye on it, it should spike this evening but if it doesn't come down by Friday, river crossing could be an issue. The crossing of the brook between the Kanc and Hancock Notch can be nasty during thaw, the valley between the Hancocks can hold a lot of snow and when it let loose that stream can really crank.

    Hancock Notch trail generally gets poor reviews for usage and followability in winter.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by peakbagger View Post
    Hancock Notch trail generally gets poor reviews for usage and followability in winter.
    There are really two parts of the trail (HNT) that should are very different.

    1. The short stretch between Rte. 112 and the junction of CBT
    2. The long stretch from CBT junction, heading east back to Sawyer River

    #1 gets traffic because it's on the way to the Hancocks. I've trail blazed it in deep snow. It was tough going (on account of the postholing) but not that hard to follow.

    #2 is gnarly and not something I'd mess with in winter. Once (in summer) was enough. It seemed to be not well traveled. Not a lot of major vertical one way or another, just tough going.

    I've done the OP's intended loop, exactly, as a weekend. It was in late summer/early fall, ages ago. Memorable moments: views from Carrigain, tough descent down the back of Carrigain, lots of easy walking after that, plentiful campsites along the Wilderness trail and CBT. Gnarly going on the HNT heading back to Sawyer River.

  13. #13
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    Wow, i was not expecting as many responses. Thanks a lot guys! Keep it coming.

    All valuable information that I will take into account. I enjoy tough trails and and consider myself fairly good at guiding myself when the trails are missing/hard to follow. I am looking forward to this trek. Now just need to keep an eye on weather conditions for the next few days. If the hike takes longer than expected I can add another day no problem.

  14. #14
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    Be aware that cell phone service is very spotty, anywhere along that stretch. Bring spikes and crampons for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rafe View Post
    Be aware that cell phone service is very spotty, anywhere along that stretch. Bring spikes and crampons for sure.
    Not that I use my phone on hikes but good to know in case of change of plans/worst case scenario. Thanks

  16. #16
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    Ugh looks like I'm going to have to move this loop to another weekend/time due to unexpected constraints (well I should have expected them). I'm still going to bag Carrigain tomorrow though and stay the night. I appreciate all the information though. Thanks everyone!

  17. #17
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    If anyone is interested, I did Carrigain yesterday/last night and the trails were in very good condition. I barebooted (trail runners) the entire way up/down. Microspikes stayed in the bag although they could have been useful in a few spots. Snowshoes would have been more trouble than worth although there were a few sections with up to maybe 6in powder going up the switchbacks to the ridge. My thermometer stayed around 13 degrees inside my duomid but it was a VERY windy night. I setup right below the summit in the flat landing to the left.

    Water crossings were no problem at all although I slipped on my way out due to not being careful enough. (Rocky goretex socks worked perfectly).

    Decent outing despite my sleep setup slipping all over the place all night. I used polycro groundsheet with womens xlite and WM antelope bag. I put the pad inside my bivy and decided not to use the bivy and I suppose that is part of why my bag and pad kept moving around. Lesson learned. Esbit stove worked very well at these temps btw.

    Last question, what is the little house/hut on Sawyer River road to the left about halfway between 302 and the trailhead where the old foundations were? The foundations look like railroad abutments but the hut is well kept and has supplies like someone stays there all winter despite having no tracks in the snow?

    Thanks

  18. #18
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    Did a day hike today 'round the Welch-Dickey loop, about 30 miles west of Carrigain and a bit south. Very thin snow cover anywhere, the trail was pretty icy. Microspikes def. needed near the top, and my partner switch to crampons for a while.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by eblanche View Post
    Last question, what is the little house/hut on Sawyer River road to the left about halfway between 302 and the trailhead where the old foundations were? The foundations look like railroad abutments but the hut is well kept and has supplies like someone stays there all winter despite having no tracks in the snow?
    After some research, the foundation seems to be the old sawmill building for the abandoned town of Livermore or possibly part of the original Saunders mansion according to the map found here: http://whitemountainhistory.org/Livermore.html

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