The Ultralight-with-a-Child Experiment

[Casey & Gina]

https://www.tarptent.com/cloudburst3.html
just a thought, if you like the tunnel tents...

These are probably a bit tight, but weight and design changes over there make Sierra designs worth a look if you like the scout...
https://www.sierradesigns.com/product/flashlight-2-fl
https://www.sierradesigns.com/product/flash-3-fl

Thanks for sharing ideas - I love looking over different gear! I learn about lots of stuff I didn't even know existed this way. The real question of this thread is, if I sacrificed all extra comforts and went purely for what would get us by as light as possible while still being durable "enough" to be safe, how light could we get? I apologize for sort of forgetting that in my last response and justifying some of our current gear. Really some choices like the EE Convert may be ideal toward that end, and a 5+lb tent is not, despite how much I may like it. I will think further on the different ideas you're presenting and work on a spreadsheet with gear weights and see what magic can happen.

...and eventually when the new one outgrows the front pack the older one is big enough to walk some.
...
If you're talking preparing for two now... Maybe you grab the osprey Poco and simply plop the food bag or other dense heavy items into the kid seat.

That brings up an interesting idea - I could have a bag that I carried along in one hand if the child were being carried, that got stuck into the carrier when he wanted to walk. As long as it weren't terribly heavy, simply toting along a small duffel could be workable. Worst case it could be clipped on to the back of a carrier, though the problem with that is that the weight is very far back.

You know the drill- get out the spreadsheet and shoot for 80-90lbs as a group. I would try to set a limit of 40 for Gina, 50 for you.

Without the winter gear, but still including the heavy 4-season tent (because I haven't gotten around to updating our lists) and winter sleeping bag setup with all four pads, our weights are at 45 and 42lbs. That's with water but without food, and counting 25lbs for the baby which is his current weight. We've made a few gear adjustments that I haven't accounted for but it should be pretty close to the same.

You can't do anything about the kiddos... so like em or not that's why I did the Osprey. 6lbs stripped down and it can handle 60lbs.

Oh, I meant to ask - why did you opt for a Plus rather than the Premium?

I cut us both down to almost zero spare clothes, minimal diddy bag and cook kit. I went heavy on snacks and no cook food as that's what he likes anyway...

Our cook kit is one place I can shave weight and bulk...our current kitchen setup is over 2lbs and could probably be at least halved pretty easily. The biggest pot we have is a 1600ml so removing that would cut down on bulk. On the other hand it's nice to make one big pot of food at once, which can be more time- and fuel-efficient. We could perhaps instead ditch the smaller pot and pack other stuff we are carrying anyways in it, to reduce the cookware weight.

I will start a new lighterpack list which is really UL-focused, using some gear that I have or at least think will work, so I can see where I am as a starting point and get some more specific feedback on it.

The good news; you got the most important thing- a willing wife

Yarr!

[peterboysen]

Hey, I'm glad to see you going after getting outside with the family, even in winter. I was going to come sing the praises of EE gear (I work for EE, by the way), but Bill took care of that, so I'll add another option if you want to go for a more open blanket feel - our Itasca is essentially just a big queen-sized comforter, so it lacks the footbox and attachments of the Accomplice, but also is a little more natural feeling when tucking an extra kiddo (or two) in there as well. That said, for winter use you probably won't want to go that route unless you're fairly still sleepers.

If you wanted something to supplement your kiddo specifically, you could also look up the Protege, which kids up to around 7 years old can use. At 14months you'll probably still want them overlapped with an adult quilt (whether solo or double) for squirminess reasons , but as they get a little older it seems more practical for them to have their own.

For fun, here's a photo of my son Lionel in his Protege. He's almost 3.

Attachment 33708

[Just Bill]

The convert might work great with your height differences... big enough wide open to spread out but on that odd below average night you could zip up and not get too crowded in the footbox. You could probably get away with a 30* too.

I still like the 1/4-1/3 of bodyweight rule for total packweight. Go much past there and you'll either get injured or see your milage drop to the 6-10 mpd range (which may be fine?)
That's the crux of the kiddo problem really... ages 2-5 being the tricky window where they are too heavy to carry and too young to walk much. So either you settle for 5-10 mile days or break yourself trying to haul it all.

What other's were hinting at is that the common choice is to just let the kiddos set the miles and not kill yourself trying to carry them.
What is new/neat/possible with SUL stuff is that you can do both, but you do really need to push your gear past what most are comfortable with to do it.

On the Poco Plus versus Premium...
The premium has an extra "daypack" that clips to the back of the carrier over the mesh area. So you could buy the premium and remove the daypack and also own a plus. The feature doesn't fit my style, and likely it would just turn into a repository for heavy stuff (kiddo creams, lotions, wipes, diddy bag crap) that would imbalance the load. If you got a deal on the premium- just pop off the pack.

I wouldn't go true stoveless with a kid along... a hot meal/drink goes a long way for making up any clothing or gear mistakes. Plus good for morale all around and you have time to cook so might as well.
BUT... you may consider a bit of a hybrid approach and restrict yourself to freezer bag dinners and morning coffee. Bulk up on non-cook meals and snacks and you can drop down to the single pot easily.
I picked up one of these but haven't used it enough to vouch for it yet... but got it because it packs easy into the poco's mesh sleeve on the back of the carrier.
http://www.rei.com/product/889971/se...c:cse_PLA_GOOG
It works okay with my little olicamp cannister stove, too chicken to try it on a fire yet or with esbit.

I like my coffee and the boy likes his butter noodles... so this and a twist lock ziplock container keep everyone happy on that score. Otherwise bars, candy, goldfish, PB&J, and cheerios do the job.
Daddy's special juice (gatorade) is always popular, so are sucker breaks (dum-dums) when he's crapping out or crabby. (or daddy is).

The ziplock twistlocks are a good way to add "meal" capacity without needing extra pots if you haven't tried them yet. You can do a water boil meal in them, then put the pot back on for your hot beverage. Works great for a side of veggies and a main course group meal type style too with coozies for them. Good bowls for cold cereals come breakfast time or to make a batch of pudding to sit in a cold stream at camp.

[Casey & Gina]

Well, the Kelty Expedition definitely has a LOT of cargo room, over 3840ci (63L) (versus 1275 (21L) on the Deuter KC III, 1400 (23L) on the Osprey Poco Plus or 2075 (34L) on the Osprey Poco Premium, including the daypack). The bottom compartment is a huge cavern that is really a great use of space and comes up right up under the baby's seat. It looks deceptively small in the pictures. I packed rather a phenomenal amount of gear into the bottom compartment, and then filled the detachable daypack (which can hold a ridiculous amount) with diapers and clothes and random stuff just to fill it up, totalling 55lbs with the baby. It's certainly an interesting carrier but it is definitely preferable to not load up the daypack with much as it pulls back too much (same as with the Ospreys). It is much nicer to use without the daypack loaded up or simply taken off, bit the Deuter carries the same amount of weight more comfortably, and the construction quality is better (though you gotta love Dyneema Gridstop).

IMG_0813.jpg IMG_0815.jpg IMG_0819.jpg

Looks like Osprey now has redesigned the Poco in the form of the Poco AG. These look compelling!

[Cheyou]

Wow 6.9lbs and $250.

Thom

[Casey & Gina]

Wow 6.9lbs and $250.

Yeah, none of the backpack child carriers are very light. They all have metal frames that go around the back of the child in addition the the main full frame. And they don't allow you to distribute weight very well either.

[Cheyou]

Yeah, none of the backpack child carriers are very light. They all have metal frames that go around the back of the child in addition the the main full frame. And they don't allow you to distribute weight very well either.

I still think u could modify a SMD 60L backpack save $150. And 5 lbs .

Thom

[One Half]

I like Lynette's take on things. Plan your hikes that they aren't centered around winter or wet conditions or over strenuous terrain or elev profiles. And, if you do consider making it more into a camping trip rather than a hiking trip. As said, things SLOOOOW down with kids. let them walk some. Watch. Guide. Be patient. carry some but not all the time is my taking a young child into Nature scenario. Lighten up on personality. laugh. No hardcore shart.

This. When we started backpacking with our son it greatly reduced the miles we went. He got a backpack with his snacks and blankie. Then as he grew we added his water using a camelback with enough space for his snacks and a couple other things (this was after diapers).
The other thing that happened is we started carrying a book to identify local plants and birds (small ones but books) and a camera (before cell phones had cameras and everyone had a cell phone) and that gave us something to do along the way. We would let him take pictures (big bulky digital camera) but we would try to identify as we went and then we could spend time after the trip trying to identify the ones we couldn't on trail.

[theinfamousj]

I cannot tell Gina's size from here, but I work as a nanny and am currently with my 6th between-1-and-2-year-old of my career. I wouldn't do a front carrier anymore for a 25 lber, and the reason is tendonitis. She might not have it yet, but with consistent carrying on the front of a toddler, she'll get it. I have it now and the doctor assures me that it is extremely common in childcare workers who specialize in the 1-to-2-year-old set. Hiking long distances over uncertain terrain will likely simulate the strain I have put on my legs to get it. Don't do it. Painful. No. Ugh.

That said, while a child that age won't be able to walk teens of miles, you can get trail legs on a child that young. My current Little One is 18 months and he can walk at least four miles with plenty more energy in him. The way he got there was that as soon as he could walk, we did walk. I'd bring a carrier along and would back carry him only when he had reached his absolute exhaustion, but so long as he had energy in him, he walked. No more stroller.

And not only does he walk, but he carries his own bitty kiddo backpack. (so cute)

His Mom, my employer, is also a hiker and takes him on regular dayhikes on the trails of the area.

So, while I see you all wanting to optimize your system in terms of gear, I also recommend training your Little One to be a hiker in their own right, including carrying a pack if possible. Since your lovely little is over the age of one, I'm assuming she's walking on her own.

As for your concern about having two children: by that point your current little one will be full on preschool aged. If Gina were pregnant today, your little one would be 2+ years old at your next child's birth. That's more than old enough to use her own legs for transportation and carry her own pack.

Hope it helps! Children are surprisingly capable if we lower our daily mileage expectations.