Thru-hike diet questions

[lexasaur]

Hello WB! This is my first post; I've spent the last 6 months planning to hit Springer in March, but have left alllll of my meal planning to the last minute. Food has been a huge questionmark in the planning process, as I generally don't eat a lot in my day-to-day, and am a pretty ****ty meal planner in life (I eat a lot of sandwiches, hah). I'm also pretty horrible at math, just in case my question(s) seem stupid.

I'm a 5'3" 128lb 29 year old lady, so I'm planning on needing to consume somewhere around 3000 calories/day to keep myself in good working order. I've got a general daily-consume plan worked out, but I'm wondering if I have some of my math right. Googling on the interwebs, I've come to find that a ziplock snack bag can typically hold 8oz of solids, and that 1oz of trail mix is somewhere in the ballpark of 130 calories/oz. So this means ONE snack bag of trail mix is going to net me 1040 calories/day?? This seems completely absurd, can anyone give me the peace of mind that I'm correct with my assumptions? I want to be intentional with what I'm buying for weight reasons (my base pack is 22lbs atm, still trying to figure out how to cut stuff out...)!

My other question was about vitamins. I've been doing a lot of searching about the pros/cons, and I think based on the fact that I'm anemic it would make sense for me to take a multi + iron, and a fish oil as well. I'm only planning on having maybe three maildrops if possible, so I guess the only option is to just buy a bottle and carry the whole thing, for both? I could do a bounce box, but starting out I'd like to be as un-teathered to going to post offices/having to work out those logistics as possible.

Thanks for the help!

[Feral Bill]

Your math works. Half a pound of trail mix (AKA Gorp) is a lot, maybe 4-6 days worth. Get to REI and look in the books for some on meal planning. It pays to have information well processed and in print. And enjoy your walk.

[swjohnsey]

A multi-vitamin for insurance makes sense and has little downside. I'm guessing that 3,000 calories/day will still leave you in a calorie deficit. Snack mix at 130 calories/ounce seems reasonable.

[George]

I will give my standard advice:

practice by going to a grocer you have never been to - buy food (that can be prepared with the equipment you will carry) for 3-4 days(attempting to keep the weight reasonable) eat nothing but the purchases

you have time for a few cycles of this

[burger]

My other question was about vitamins. I've been doing a lot of searching about the pros/cons, and I think based on the fact that I'm anemic it would make sense for me to take a multi + iron, and a fish oil as well. I'm only planning on having maybe three maildrops if possible, so I guess the only option is to just buy a bottle and carry the whole thing, for both? I could do a bounce box, but starting out I'd like to be as un-teathered to going to post offices/having to work out those logistics as possible.

I can't speak to the anemia, but the medical community has shifted on the benefits of vitamins lately. The short version is: if you are getting enough nutrients in your diet, you don't need vitamins. In fact, excess consumption of some vitamins can actually be harmful. Of course, a lot of typical thru-hiker foods don't have a lot of nutrients, but if you are eating a reasonably diverse diet or, like I do, a lot of clif bars, you may be getting all the vitamins you need. The best advice I can give is to look over the labels on foods you're planning to take and add up the nutrients you'd get in a typical day (there are plenty of websites that can help with this, too). I'd bet that if you're going over 3000 calories a day, you'll hit the RDAs for most nutrients.

Also, 3000 calories a day seems a little low. Supposedly the average woman burns 2,000 calories a day (there's a lot of variation, obviously). You will surely be burning 1500+ calories most days on the trail, so that would call for more like 3500-4000+ calories. That might be more food weight than you want to carry (it would probably come to over 2 lbs. of food a day), but I'd say that it's better to eat too much food on the trail than too little.

If you can swing it, by far the best way to figure out your food needs is to go on some shakedown backpacking trips.

[VTATHiker]

I also think you should aim a little higher than 3000 calories. I'm about 160 lb and 5'11", and I put down 4,000-5,000 calories daily in the middle of the trail (although less at the beginning). If you average the calories per pound of the random spectrum of foods you pick up on the trail you get about 1500 cal/lb (95 cal/oz). That's roughly 3 lb of food a day, although I routinely aimed for 2.5 lb/day and gorged in town. In your case 34 oz (2.1lb) of food per day is probably a good place to start.

[Water Rat]

Hello WB! This is my first post; I've spent the last 6 months planning to hit Springer in March, but have left alllll of my meal planning to the last minute. Food has been a huge questionmark in the planning process, as I generally don't eat a lot in my day-to-day, and am a pretty ****ty meal planner in life (I eat a lot of sandwiches, hah). I'm also pretty horrible at math, just in case my question(s) seem stupid.

I'm a 5'3" 128lb 29 year old lady, so I'm planning on needing to consume somewhere around 3000 calories/day to keep myself in good working order. I've got a general daily-consume plan worked out, but I'm wondering if I have some of my math right. Googling on the interwebs, I've come to find that a ziplock snack bag can typically hold 8oz of solids, and that 1oz of trail mix is somewhere in the ballpark of 130 calories/oz. So this means ONE snack bag of trail mix is going to net me 1040 calories/day?? This seems completely absurd, can anyone give me the peace of mind that I'm correct with my assumptions? I want to be intentional with what I'm buying for weight reasons (my base pack is 22lbs atm, still trying to figure out how to cut stuff out...)!

My other question was about vitamins. I've been doing a lot of searching about the pros/cons, and I think based on the fact that I'm anemic it would make sense for me to take a multi + iron, and a fish oil as well. I'm only planning on having maybe three maildrops if possible, so I guess the only option is to just buy a bottle and carry the whole thing, for both? I could do a bounce box, but starting out I'd like to be as un-teathered to going to post offices/having to work out those logistics as possible.

Thanks for the help!

to White Blaze!

Math is awesome and getting a general idea is a good place to start, but I wouldn't get too hung up on the numbers. Concentrate more on how you feel. Everyone is different and has a different metabolic rate. In fact, women (in general) do not lose weight at the same rate as men. You might even find you gain weight on this trip because of gaining muscle. Listen to your body. It will be the best judge of what you need and when you need it. Given that town is usually not that far away, makes notes as to what is/isn't working and adjust as necessary. All you really need to do is come up with food/ideas for the first week (extra ideas, not extra food). The rest will sort itself out as you walk and as your body adjusts.

You will also find that what foods sound great now, might not be as appealing a month in to your hike. Variation is a good thing, so be sure to look at lots of different options in case the thought of eating another handful of trail mix makes you want to gag. Ideas will also present themselves along the trail.

Good luck and have a fun hike!

[Malto]

Take this from someone that completely had a 2654 mile meal plan carefully laid out before hiking the PCT.....

dont stress over the food. Your dietary requirements will change and you will adapt. Your body will let you know what it needs and your cravings and disgusts will evolve by the day. Unless you are doing a significant number of mail drops, which I wouldn't recommend then set off with a few days of food, learn and apply to the next resupply leg.

In in my case I did do a lot of mail drops due to a particular fueling strategy. I ended up eating much more than I expected and supplemented my mail drops with additional food to meet my cravings.

[lexasaur]

I'm only planning on doing maybe 3 maildrops (fontana dam, harpers ferry and monson), I don't want to deal with the logistics of anything more complicated. I'm definitely going to adjust my currently planned shopping list to reflect a higher calorie intake (my current daily count is at ~3,491, at 1.8lbs/day, which I can pad with more snacks for sure)—I'm really worried about not eating properly, and that putting me off the trail as I exhaust myself. I'm definitely a bit of an overplanner (when I'm not completely procrastinating), so I wanted a pretty solid list to draw off of for the first few resupplies without second guessing or doing a lot of math in the moment. Excited to see how that process evolves!!

Thanks everyone for your input!

[TiHiker]

Lots of good suggestions lexasaur!! I'm sure you've thought of this, but not all food is the same in calories and/or of the proportions of fat, protein & carbs. A popular food with one of the highest calorie/weight ratios is peanut butter. Regular brand PB readily available in gas stations, pharmacies, delis and grocery stores (therefore dependably available) is 166cal/oz. It is, therefore, an efficient food to carry. FPC is 50%-25%-25%. Another good food is tahini at 166cal/oz and FPC of 58%-19%-23%. Both have good ratios of FPC. They mix well with freeze dried foods even making them some of them more palatable.
Just some food for thought!

[RockDoc]

The math calculations re calorie burn and food eaten are pointless, for a lot of reasons (they ignore the role of hormones in fat burning/storage). But you won't come close to eating your burn rate, so you will lose weight, like almost all of us have while hiking. The good news is that you will start to train your body to burn fat, and it will make up the difference. This is how human bodies ran for hundreds of generations before we ate all day, every day (and got obese as a result).

I would recommend staying on your supplements and maybe upping your percentage of fat in your diet. Higher fat foods like nuts, nut butters, cheese, butter, avocado, meat, coconut products, etc are calorie dense and provide excellent, nutritious fuel for hiking. They will also keep you from getting so hungry because they are filling and satisfying (simple carbs do the opposite, they make you ravenous and their energy doesn't last long).

[colorado_rob]

Just another calorie/day data point: I eat right at 3200-3400 calories/day on average, based on a little detailed analysis I did some time ago, and that is enough for me to not lose any significant weight on the trail. I'm 6-1 and 180 pounds. My wife is just about exactly your size and her numbers come in about 2600-2800 calories per day, a tad less than your 3000 estimate. I have a 200 calorie spread on these numbers simply because they cannot be dialed in any more accurately.

This does not include town stops where almost certainly more than this is consumed those particular days. you will probably have this same situation.

So I, for one, think 3000 is a decent estimate for you, and I wouldn't carry any more than that to start out. as has been said, you'll adjust and figure all this out for yourself.

No offense to others, but I think needed (and consumed) calories/day are inflated. Just my opinion, but again, based on a little study I did preparing for a long expedition where weight was critical. I realize we're all different, just providing my (and my wife's) experience.

I also take a single tablet "one a day" supplement, as does my wife. Probably doesn't do much good, probably doesn't do any harm, but my trail diet isn't the best, so I probably lack some key nutrients that just maybe these vitamin tablets help a bit with. These kinds of supplements are widely available in towns (though I use mail drops for mine).

[Slo-go'en]

The thing is, it's nearly impossible to carry enough food to get the calories you need while in the woods. Which is why those who make it to Maine look like stick figures when they get here. It's also why people end up eating a lot more food in town and drinking more beer (a good food source) and spending a lot more money doing so, then they think they will at the outset.

One thing I always crave when I get to town is milk. I'll guzzle down a quart of chocolate milk in about 2 minutes, first thing. I've also gotten addicted to corn chips on the trail. High is fat (enough you start fires with them) along with potassium and salt.

The only supplements I take are B complex and Garlic, as those seem to help keep bugs away.

[Venchka]

Somebody has to say this. Might as well be the Clueless Old Geezer.
If you have been planning this hike for 6 months, why haven't you been living on your trail diet all this time? You can work out everything else in a week to a month. You could have used the rest of the time to fine tune and vary your diet.
Hot Springs, NC is one of the perfect mail drop towns. The post office, motel, hotel, library, outfitter, The Blue Ridge Diner and two hostels are directly on the trail.
My mix of antiquities and modern gear doesn't come close to 22 lbs. What have you been planning for 6 months?
Have fun. Pay no attention to me.

Wayne


Sent from somewhere around here.

[MuddyWaters]

I dont understand. Did you think you were going to get 3000 cal by eating half a ziplock of trail mix or something?

I usually eat about 3 oz per day of trailmix. 160 cal/oz.

To minimize your food carried, you need to target calorie dense foods, easier said than done. Theres also the availability thing.

This is why hikers eat lots of candybars and chocolate, and peanut butter, and trail mix.

I have to eat 5 times per day to get enough calories, and still usually run a significant calorie deficit that must be made up in town.

[garlic08]

All the advice above is very good. I'll stress what MuddyWaters alluded to about calorie density--add fat. If you replace the trail mix at 130 cal/oz with nuts at up to 200 cal/oz, you'll do a little better. Olive oil is a whopping 250 cal/oz. Simple carbohydrates like sugar come in at only 110 cal/oz, raisins are 85. Peanuts are twice that. Chocolate has fat and does OK at about 150 cal/oz, but nuts are better.

Of course, no one should live on fat alone. A decent thru-hike diet comes in at about 130 cal/oz overall, and two pounds per day will give you over 4100 cal. That's plenty to get you to the next town, which is seldom more than four days away the AT. Town meals are a good place to eat fresh greens and fruit and vary your diet, in addition to slamming in about 8,000 calories!

(A better measure for my hiking style is calories needed per mile, which comes out to around one pound for every 12 miles of trail. Entering the 100 mile wilderness on the AT, for instance, I carried eight pound of food, and I didn't need to think about number of days. If I slow down and rest a bit, I don't work as much and don't eat as much. During a killer long day, I'll eat much more.)

No one has addressed the amount of work you're doing, either. This is variable depending on pack weight, your excess body weight, and how efficiently you walk. It also depends on air temperature, your insulation, your metabolic rate, and how much energy you need to expend to maintain core heat. Not to mention the phase of the moon and how you part your hair. This varies greatly from hiker to hiker.

I've been vegetarian/vegan my entire adult life, never take supplements, and if you listen to the meat/dairy/supplement industry I should be dead by now. According to balanced, reasonable advice I've recently read, it sounds like good reasons to take supplements are for things like anemia, and fish oils are probably a good thing, so I think the OP has a good reason to carry those.

One last thing about what Malto said, don't stress about the food. An empty food bag is not a death sentence. One of the great lessons I learned on my first thru hike on the PCT was about hunger. I was nearly fifty years old and went to bed hungry and skipped meals, I realized, for the first time in my entire coddled, pampered life. I reflected that much of the world lives like this, that not everyone has a secure source of food (or water, but that's another good PCT lesson), yet people somehow live on.

[colorado_rob]

All the advice above is very good. I'll stress what MuddyWaters alluded to about calorie density--add fat. If you replace the trail mix at 130 cal/oz with nuts at up to 200 cal/oz, you'll do a little better. Olive oil is a whopping 250 cal/oz. Simple carbohydrates like sugar come in at only 110 cal/oz, raisins are 85. Peanuts are twice that. Chocolate has fat and does OK at about 150 cal/oz, but nuts are better.

I certainly agree in trying to lower carried food weight, but one has to be careful about carrying too many fat-dense foods on the trail; the problem is that depending on your level of hiking effort (speed, steep vs. flat terrain), our bodies cannot burn fats very well for energy. There are tons of articles out there, but here is a typical plot of what energy is available from fats vs. carbs vs. effort:

http://www.drbillsukala.com.au/wp-co...ercentages.jpg

The horizontal axis, "VO2 max", is simply our level of effort. Not sure where we are on this axis, probably somewhere in the left-middle during fairly easy hiking, right middle on the hills. Lots of hills on the AT!

The bottom line is that during our actual hiking, we really need to consume lots and lots of carbs. It certainly doesn't hurt to eat nuts and such while hiking, just keep up the carb intake.

My mountaineering mentor also happens to be a nutritionist be trade, his advice to me (and lots of students in a mountaineering class he teaches) is to carry a nice varied mix, eat the carb-heavy, like simple sugars, foods during the day, save most of the protein/fat rich foods for evening meals.

Side issue on proteins: according to Steve (my mentor), relying too much on proteins during exercise is also not the best idea; save those for evening recovery. Proteins burn kinda "dirty" in the body when relied on for energy, producing all sorts of by-products. Simple sugars are what our muscles need to operate and later to replace their depleted glycogens.

People will say that eating lots of sugars give them a energy jolt, then a quick crash. Sure, this will happen if they eat a ton of sugars all at once, then nothing. This is why during endurance efforts (like long distance hiking) it is good to "graze", eat small amounts of sugars kind of continuously while hiking. Try it! It works great. Absolutely vital dung big mountain mountaineering, but it works for simple hiking as well.

I love my high-fat nut mixes and carry lots of them, along with my pepperoni sticks, etc, but try to eat mostly sugars while actually hiking.

[Puddlefish]

I've been vegetarian/vegan my entire adult life, never take supplements, and if you listen to the meat/dairy/supplement industry I should be dead by now.

I've generally met two kinds of vegans/vegetarians. The kind who learn about nutrition and plan carefully to meet their nutrition goals, and the kind who just want to belong to a club using it as an excuse to eat pop tarts for half of their meals. Of course, much the same can be said of non vegan/vegetarians as well.

[garlic08]

I've generally met two kinds of vegans/vegetarians....

Then there's the third kind, who you invite to dinner and are just annoying about it.

Hey, if you can't laugh at yourself.... Continuing the ribbing, the gluten-free folks are sure joining us vegans in the annoying category.

Colorado Rob, definitely good wisdom about time of day to eat carbs vs protein. That's one reason I stay away from trail mix. I carry nuts and dried fruit separately. (I like to think the word "dung" doesn't really belong in the penultimate paragraph of your post, but maybe it's a mountaineering usage I haven't heard yet. Or you left out an "ri.")

[Puddlefish]

Then there's the third kind, who you invite to dinner and are just annoying about it.

Hey, if you can't laugh at yourself.... Continuing the ribbing, the gluten-free folks are sure joining us vegans in the annoying category.

My daughter had a roomate who was a raw foodist. She had them all over to my house for dinner once. Spent hours making the kid a nutritious meal she could eat, and the punk just dove into the pizza with everyone else.

I'd imagine the annoying dinner guests are balanced by the annoying dinner hosts who try to trick you.