calories

[Rmcpeak]

Just did Harper's Ferry to Front Royal (52 miles) in two days (30/22 miles). I'm jacked to get out and do some more soon with the intent of two or three consecutive 30 miles. Looking at maybe doing a 150 stretch in 5 days, that sort of thing.

I'm interested to hear some details about what ya'll are eating out there. My last hike I switched my main meals from a ramen concoction that I've used on a lot of previous hikes but have grown sick of to instant mashed potatoes and tuna packets. I ate a lot of lara and cliff bars and a big bag of gummies. I did nuun drink tablets and some cheese and apricots too.

While hiking I ate on all the climbs which seemed to be a good strategy. I ate my big meal around 4 pm and then hiked on another 10 miles. I carry a Caldera Keg system. I can see myself going stoveless soon.

When I pack, I figure about 100 cals per mile. If it's a 2-3 day hike, I go out knowing I will burn off a pound our two. I'm still about 8 pounds over my ideal weight (presently 6'4 208lbs) so I can do a couple more hikes with a calorie intake deficit.

Anyway, I'd like to hear from other big milers about food strategies, go to foods, avoids, anything useful.

Thanks!

[Malto]

For short hikes I also do 100 calories per mile. I pretty much scrapped all major meals and do constant hourly dripping of calories. You may try reversing your approach on hills and eat on the downhills allowing your body to begin processing the caloies on the uphills. It is also easier to eat when you aren't worrying about getting increased oxygen for the climb.

[MuddyWaters]

On short hikes I eat about 3300-3500 cal/day and still lose about 1/2 lb per day on trail doing ~20 mile days. I have to make up lots of calories on zero day once per week to limit weightloss to 1 lb per week or so. I couldnt survive on 100 cal per mile starting with 8% bodyfat without ending quite emaciated.

I can feel my belly skinfold get thinner day by day. By my calipers I ended up under 5% bodyfat a couple years ago. Not sure how accurate it really is, but I could have played role of an escapee from a concentration camp.

Hitting trail at 158 lb and 8% bodyfat, you can see and feel every lb loss of fat. Every one is significant from body.

[Dogwood]

When I have opps to resupply and especially supplement more often at my own acceptable level of inconvenience I usually do it. This allows to take more food, different kinds of food including more fresh produce, have a much greater variety of taste sensations, provides much food wiggle room, and I don't have to as concerned about consumable wt adhering to an UL style.

Constant grazer typically consumed on the fly. Blue blood bars and trail mixes of nuts, seeds and fruit are a big part of typical daily consumption. Only real meal is dinner and perhaps a hot b-fast oats concoction in cooler or winter weather. Food is a rather easy to make affair involving boiling water and perhaps chopping up some produce. ie; one pot wonders. I like consuming whole foods, living foods, both on and off trail that are minimally processed. Excess package wt is discarded. Portion sizes and nutritional break down are typically personalized by tweaking these things. Typical hiking day involves hiking 14-16 hrs. I aim at 130+ cals/oz avg. On greater food hauls of 6-7 + days is where the daily and entire food haul calories, cal/oz ratios, and wider perspective overall nutritional profile takes greater emphasis especially in an UL scheme. I tend to take a trail food approach that considers LD backpacking as more of an athletic sporting event where performance is influenced by what goes into my body and mind.

[Rmcpeak]

I tend to take a trail food approach that considers LD backpacking as more of an athletic sporting event where performance is influenced by what goes into my body and mind.

Yeah, me too.

[Hikingjim]

i am the same height and just a bit less weight than you. If I started hiking at 7 am, I tend to hike hard early in the day and eat about 200-400 calorie meal/snacks every 2 hours. Usually by the time I hit camp at 5-6, I've already had about 2000-2500 calories and will have some dinner

I keep my foods pretty simple because I'm a bit lazy that way for food planning and prep. standard day will be oatmeal, a few nuts, dried fruits for breakfast. hit the trail, stop for a bar after a couple hours, then eat some nuts/pepperoni stick/dry fruit on the next stop, PB wrap and some misc good like cheese for lunch, more snacking, often mountain house style for dinner.

If I go for a long stretch without resupply, I may need to have more calories per day brought with me to keep up energy. but if it's a standard 2-5 days on the AT until you run into a restaurant, resupply or any other food source, then I usually just gorge a bit there and mix in a 5000+ calorie day.

the 2 days surrounding a town stop will both involve extremely large quantities of food (one night's dinner, the next morning's breakfast)

[rafe]

There's food that needs cooking, and food for snacking, and I make sure there's a day's supply of the latter in one of the outer pockets of my pack. Stop whenever I feel like it, for a snack. Always prefer a sunny vista for snack break, but I figure a 10-15 minute break at least four to six times in the course of a normal hiking day. Regular hydration is also important.

[garlic08]

On my sustained high-mileage hikes (hiked the AT at a 20+ mpd pace, just over 100 days) I neglect the concept of meals. I don't carry a stove. I stop at least every two hours for a rest and food break. Staples are muesli (rolled oats, walnuts, raisins), tortillas and cheese, peanut butter, cashews, crackers, Fig Newtons, some fresh fruit and veg when available. Average calories 130+/oz. I pack one pound per 10 miles, just over 100 cal/mile though I never thought of it that way. That plus healthy town meals sustains my lean 5-9 frame and 150 pounds pretty well in the long term.

On the CDT, I often hiked 100 miles between resupplies in two nights out with that strategy, sometimes with eight pounds of food due to mostly easier terrain in some areas. Going stoveless made town stops easier with no need for fuel resupply.

[drinkwater]

Food is an interesting topic. I've been training to get my body conditioned to lower calorie intake on my two day fastpacks. I run about 20 miles in around 5 hours on the AT. https://www.strava.com/activities/554633246 Ultimately I'm hoping to do a unsupported FKT on the Virginia section. I also run with my dog (s). My base pack is 5lbs. Loaded with food and water around 8 to 10 lbs. Currently I'm around 1500 calories per day when fastpacking. Bacon jerky, salmon packs, gummies, M&M's, Cliff blocks, almonds. I carry one 17 oz of Mountain Dew front strap mounted, I sip on this during the run. I carry 20 oz electrolyte water in a handheld. This normally gets me between water sources. I carry 1.5 lbs of hard dog food. I also run out and back, so I cache couple bottles of Mountain Dew, snickers bars, dog food around 1/2 way mark. My destination is always a water source. When done for the day I drink a lot of water, have to be careful not to drink too much water during exercise. I'm also an Ultra runner and have learnt the body can only absorb so many calories an hour (about 150 - 200). Calories can always be added back after the trip is over. Fasting is also good way to condition body to dealing with hunger. I'm 6'2" around 195 lbs and 15% body fat. If I drop below 10% I start to bonk. My BMI is around 25. I always keep 1 pack of salmon and 1 pack of Cliff blocks as a last resort if I bonk. I'm always tinkering with ways to maximize fat calories and weight. As a fastpacker my focus is on carrying the lowest weight possible.

[CalebJ]

Robert, I don't see 1500 calories working past a 2-3 day trip. Didn't you run into problems towards the end of your GSMNP trip last time with being really hungry?

[CamelMan]

I'm not a big miler yet, but trying to become one. I'm about an inch shorter and 10 lbs lighter than drinkwater. I just had my best weekend with a 20 and 22 and ~11,900 ft gain. I'd be surprised if I ran more than 2 miles of that, though. My starting weights were 15 and 13 pounds. The chance of me getting on the AT this year is approaching zero so I'm starting to train for that dream trail marathon instead, so I'm not going to be carrying extra water for weight anymore.

Anyway, I'm always posting about raisins, but that's because of this study. In reality I eat other kinds of dried fruit, but raisins are the cheapest. Prunes are fine because they don't affect me--most days I get more than 100g fiber anyway. A 12 oz, 1200 calorie pack of raisins is about right for a 20 mile day, but I'm in a tanked-up state coming from home.

I do get hungry, but instead of listening to that, have started to eat ~1/4-1/2 cup every hour. Since it's not a race I just pause to open my pack, eat and drink a bit and take in the scene. I end up replacing a little over half of the calories I burn. The rest, I'm hoping, is body fat.

For breakfast, I'll eat ~1 cup of uncooked rolled oats mixed with Vega One and enough fruit to equal 750-1000 calories. After a 20+ day hike, what I would love to do is have a soft whole-wheat loaf of bread waiting for me in the car (nice and warm from the closed windows, LOL) so I could eat the whole thing on the way home, but there aren't any available that meet my low-sodium needs.

[drinkwater]

Robert, I don't see 1500 calories working past a 2-3 day trip. Didn't you run into problems towards the end of your GSMNP trip last time with being really hungry?

. LOL. Yes, I was hungry at the end of that trip but nothing a trip to the restaurant didn't fix when it was over. I did that trip on 2000 calories per day. - I also supplemented with some borrowed food at dinner on day 3 due to the hunger pangs !!! Since then I have learn't how to get more fat calories per oz by choosing different foods. Bacon jerky instead of regular jerky. M&M's instead of regular chocolate. Cliff blocks instead of Cliff shots. Raw almonds. Mountain Dew. Captain Crunch. Olive oil tuna packs. For 2 to 3 days I can get by on 1500 calories. I am hungry when I get home and will eat a roast chicken and loaf of garlic bread. It's taking me about 5 days to recover from a long run (around 50 miles). I'm hoping to do Virginia (550 miles) unsupported in 10 days (That means carrying 10 days of food), I will be focusing on the first 5 days around 1500 to 2000 calories, then switching to 2500 to 3000 calories for the last 5 days. Right now I'm focused on sectioning all of Virginia NB and SB. I've completed 265 miles out of 1100. AT.JPG

[shelb]

[QUOTE=drinkwater;2069748]. I'm hoping to do Virginia (550 miles) unsupported in 10 days (That means carrying 10 days of food), ]

I found Virginia's SNP to be a great place to get "basic" resupply and an occasional meal.... That might not be what you are looking for, but it was great for us

[CamelMan]

I'm hoping to do Virginia (550 miles) unsupported in 10 days (That means carrying 10 days of food), I will be focusing on the first 5 days around 1500 to 2000 calories, then switching to 2500 to 3000 calories for the last 5 days.

With all due respect to your experience and planning, don't you think you'll run out of glycogen if you're doing 55 mile days on that few calories? I've bonked on very mediocre efforts just by not eating enough carbs over a few days.

[Walking Thunderbird]

For shorter trips, I think losing weight is inevitable. Your metabolism just doesn't catch up to the fact that 20-30 miles is the new "normal," so you won't be hungry enough to eat enough calories. I remember five days into my SOBO thru, I tried and failed to eat an entire pizza in Monson. I lost 20-25 pounds from an already slim weight in the first few weeks of my thru. The last 2/3 of the trip, I was doing 30+ miles / day and carrying 6000 calories per day. That, plus a huge dinner and breakfast every time I was in town allowed me to basically sustain weight.

Maybe I'm abnormal, but 100 calories / mile seems way too few for sustained long days. If I had only eaten 3000 - 3500 calories per day on my thru, I would have wasted away.

And I agree with the above -- you'll walk literally right by stores in Shenandoah, so picking up additional food is no problem.

[drinkwater]

With all due respect to your experience and planning, don't you think you'll run out of glycogen if you're doing 55 mile days on that few calories? I've bonked on very mediocre efforts just by not eating enough carbs over a few days.

Not sure. The body is capable of amazing efforts with the correct training. As an endurance athlete I'm pushing myself harder and longer to see how I adapt. Also trying to determine the best weight and visceral fat level to be at. I know for sure I couldn't sustain 10 days at around 185 Lbs. I've also been fasting for several days (water and juice only) while maintaining exercise levels - losing several pounds of weight in the process. And putting it all back on within a short time. I've come a long way in the past year on lowering my daily calorie requirement for hard efforts. Another year of training to go!

[drinkwater]

[QUOTE=shelb;2069974]

. I'm hoping to do Virginia (550 miles) unsupported in 10 days (That means carrying 10 days of food), ]

I found Virginia's SNP to be a great place to get "basic" resupply and an occasional meal.... That might not be what you are looking for, but it was great for us

Thank you for the input. My goal is 100% self sustained with no outside help other than refreshing water supply's.

[CamelMan]

I've also been fasting for several days (water and juice only) while maintaining exercise levels - losing several pounds of weight in the process. And putting it all back on within a short time. I've come a long way in the past year on lowering my daily calorie requirement for hard efforts. Another year of training to go!

It sounds like you're becoming extremely "fat adapted". Good luck and let us know how it goes, that would be a huge achievement.

[RockDoc]

Fat adaption makes sense nutritionally and in terms of evolution. We do not need to carry & eat the amount of calories that we burn. We can use body fat, like our ancestors did on long treks. But in order to do that you need to adapt to fat burning, and limit carbs which turn off the fat burning system.

In short, you are either a sugar burner (forever hungry) or a fat burner (not hungry, plenty of fuel on board). The sugar burners increase risks of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, and chronic inflammation.

Pretty easy choice which way to go... especially for hiking or long distance running.

[Connie]

I am a fat burner, then.

However, I do not push the limits, deliberately.

What carbs "rurn off" fat burning?