No no no not the 1970s psychedelic cool aid . ;0)
"Drinking the Kool-Aid" actually has a much darker origin: Jonestown, Guyana, 1978
Yes it was.
I didn't interpret this to be a comment directed at Tarptent, many would agree it's a top echelon company. I think it was more about the poster's absolutism (is this a word?) about their opinion above all others. The world is full of choices, TT is the right one for many, not everyone.Originally Posted by Franco
Back on topic--When I started looking at UL tents back in 2002, I was definitely concerned about durability of silnylon. I took the risk and tried a Tarptent Virga. I treated it carefully for a few years, then a little less carefully for a few more years...and a few more...good stuff. A friend is still using that tent. I bought a Contrail when it came out around 2007 and just retired it last year, with about 7000 trail miles and a transcontinental bike trip on it. And it never saw a ground cloth, BTW. I'm no longer concerned about the durability of silnylon.
"Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning
My Tarptent Rainbow was purchased in 2007, still going strong. Got some good use this last week, in fact, and in very wet conditions along the GAP in PA and MD.
I have seen Coleman (big brand name) tents I thought must have been backyard camping tents for kids: the nylon material was so flimsy and the overall weight so ridiculously heavyweight I couldn't believe Coleman had put their name on it.
Maybe it was a knockoff? Whatever.
I would rather go-with specialty and niche-market brand name tents and tarps and tarp-tents for my money.
Even the TNF and Sierra Designs tents I have admired and owned were heavier for no good reason I could tell: I cannot say they were more durable.
If I were purchasing for more than one-plus, I purchase a tipi: even the worst klutz cannot step on the tent wall or a tent pole to damage a tipi. Well, maybe the worst klutz: that rules out druggies and drunks.
When I purchase a tarp or tent or tarp tent, today, I consider the footprint and tie-outs, if any, for how much clear space will I need to pitch it.
I will consider a "freestanding" tent if only to stake it at the tent walls, and not need pull-outs. However, when enough reasonably flat ground is not available, I would rather "cowboy camp" in a bivy.
I let a DIY 7D and noseeum bug bivy protect my argon quilt.
I use a polycryo ground sheet, and so, I am not certain I even need the bug bivy to protect that "fragile" argon quilt.
I like the argon fabric so much, I would like to make an argon fabric shelter.
Does anyone have experience with argon fabric, in terms of durability?
I have never had a UL tent, tarp or tarp tent design fail. Would argon fabric fail? 7D?
Last edited by Connie; 05-20-2016 at 01:42.
My experience is similar to tha of Garlic. Also have a contrail, with perhaps 4000 miles on it. Didn't retire it, still in my 'inventory', I moved on to a lightheart designs solo with cuben upper. Have about the same number of miles on that tent, also still working well. I sent it back to Judy to fix the zipper (plier trick just wasn't doing it anymore), and to replace the long-end tie out points, those were looking a little sketchy. But it's still my go-to tent for solo trips.
It's zippers that are the issue for me in terms of jackets and tents, those little zippers put in to save weight just don't last well. If you're concerned about durability, be gentle with those small zippers.
Gadget
PCT: 2008 NOBO, AT: 2010 NOBO, CDT: 2011 SOBO, PNT: 2014+2016
[QUOTE=BrianLe;2068419...It's zippers that are the issue for me in terms of jackets and tents, those little zippers put in to save weight just don't last well. If you're concerned about durability, be gentle with those small zippers.[/QUOTE]
Good point. When I told Henry how much I'd used the Contrail, he asked, "No problems with the zip?" They see a lot of zipper repairs.
"Throw a loaf of bread and a pound of tea in an old sack and jump over the back fence." John Muir on expedition planning
Every spring I gently rub a small dripless candel on my tents zippers. Seems to make them more smoothly.
V8
Yes zipps are the weak point in jackets/trousers and tents but even beefier ones do jam and or brake.
(I get frustrated with myself when I catch the fabric of my sleeping bag after a midnight pee. I know very well how to avoid it but I still do it...)
It is a good idea to brush off dirt/sand from the zips, some use silicone lubricant on them.
It appears to have less problems than other methods like graphite or wax.
I have a low res video on tent maintenance :
I get about 0.5c per view so watch it 4 times to give me 2c (that is about what is worth...)
As long as we're sharing thoughts on zipper problems, here are mine:
http://appalachiantrials.com/beware-the-failing-zipper/
Gadget
PCT: 2008 NOBO, AT: 2010 NOBO, CDT: 2011 SOBO, PNT: 2014+2016
BrianLe
Good article, thanks for sharing.
Many, many nights in my Zpacks solo plus made of cuben. I am careful with my gear and take precaution with my set up; no zips to worry about. I will say that my first deluge into trying to get lighter 10 years ago I bought a "big box" Coleman exponent solo tent, it's a hair over 3lbs and still works perfectly today and I let friends borrow it when they don't have a shelter. My Zpacks is a mansion compared to that old tent and only 19oz with guys, line locks and stakes! I do like Henry Shires stuff too.
It seems that if you do not seal the seams, the tarptent will actually drink the Kool-Aid...
I forgot to mention that I am the second owner of this Zpacks tent; it had already done a complete through hike before I purchased it used! The guylines were pretty shabby so I replaced those with line locks with the brighter Z-line, I found 2 pin holes that I repaired with tiny squares of cuben tape and... VIOLA, like new tent
Why would I want a four season tent? For a variety of reasons---longevity, waterproofness, ample guylines for the worst summer storms. And the worst wind I was ever in was during a July thunderstorm atop an open NC bald at 5,500 feet. 4 season can mean any season.
The biggest drawback to UL tents is their use of thin fly and floor deniers (with low hydrostatic heads). Put a 30 denier tent floor atop a water puddle in your backyard. Sit on it for 5 minutes. See if any water sponges thru the fabric.
I feel the same way, except I go for 70 and 100 denier floors because I basically live in my tents and want to keep them going for at least 10 years.
It must be remembered by Whiteblazers that Franco works for TarpTent and he needs this disclaimer when he posts. I have never in all my years of reading his Tarptent postings seen him write one negative review of a tarptent product or tent feature. It's incredibly odd as no tent is perfect and every tent fails and every tent has flaws.
Just as every tent can be praised, so can that same tent be criticized. How a tent fails is much important in my opinion than how a tent performs otherwise. So let's hear the whole story from guys who put their tents thru the wringer.
Last edited by Tipi Walter; 06-03-2016 at 17:24.
As a footnote, HERE is a posting I would expect Franco to write but instead it comes from world traveler Christine Thuermer aka German Tourist. She breaks down what breaks and when in this excellent post on her blog---
http://christine-on-big-trip.blogspo...n-and-why.html
Here is her TarpTent quote---
"""What breaks when?
Because I have been living outdoors for 7 years almost straight I am in the rare position to be able to report about the longivity of gear out of my own experience. I buy a new piece of equipment and use it until it completely breaks or fails - and after so many years I have a very good idea of what breaks when and why:
Tents: I have been using Tarptents through almost all my hiking career and I am extremely happy with them.
I started with a Virga, then a Virga II followed by a Contrail and now I am using a Rainbow. After a couple of months of use the tent floor will get little holes, but this has never bothered me and I don't use a ground sheet either.
The first thing of consequence that will break is the slider of the tent zipper. Depending on what sort of environment you are moving in (lots of sand or not) this will happen after 4 - 6 months of constant use. The slider will wear out and you will not be able to zip up the tent any more. This is a gradual process and you should act as soon as you experience the first difficulties. Of course this always happens in mosquito country where you depend on your tent being closed.... The problem is quite easy to fix with a needle and thread if you have spare sliders with you - don't leave for a long trip without the appropriate spare sliders and familiarize yourself with how to change a slider. I change sliders up to 3 times before the tent dies of old age!
After about one year of use the tensioners for the guy lines will wear out and/or the guylines itself will become too slippery to tension them anymore. You can work around it by putting little knots in the guylines or using them with their maximum length, but it will be difficult to tension the tent then without restaking. This is not a life threatening problem but a sign that you should think of getting a new tent.
Three times in my long outdoor career a tent pole has broken and I could always repair it with a repair sleeve. This usually happens when you do not insert the tent pole segments into each other correctly before bending them - they will then break at the thin segment end. Do carry a small repair sleeve on long trips!
In my experience a Tarptent can easily withstand 1 - 1,5 years of constant (ab)use before it has to be replaced and this is an excellent life expectancy for an UL piece of equipment."""
This is what I am talking about---the pros and cons of a tent which she continues to use and like.
From Tipi :
"It must be remembered by Whiteblazers that Franco works for TarpTent and he needs this disclaimer when he posts."
maybe, Tipi, you should have read the quote you posted, at least the bit at the end that has :
franco@tarptent
ex Tarptent customer, current Tarptent user...
So, in a nutshell, the zipper sliders cause trouble after 4-6 months of constant use in sandy areas, guylines wear out (who knew??) and poles can break if the ends aren't inserted correctly. And they can easily withstand about 500 days of use.
Damn, I want one! Sign me up, Franco!
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