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  1. #2561

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    I have a mylar space blanket. (I do not bring an electric toothbrush.)

    I also have orange smoke, I can set on a rock (not a rocket, as risk of fires).

    The applicable laws are on the Orion website.

    I would have a messaging emergency locator, if I were somewhere outside "my comfort zone".

    There is another thread discussing the best and worst.
    Last edited by Connie; 05-28-2016 at 14:19.

  2. #2562

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    Quote Originally Posted by Connie View Post
    They didn't even look around, or, get a sighting: heads down, following their compass.
    Wow! That's not so good. When I teach orienteering, the student uses the compass to sight two objects in the distance along the intended heading, and keeps them lined up and walks to the objects. When they reach the first one, they take the sighting again, and find new objects to head to. This practice gives much better results than having your head down and stare at the compass.

    It's a good idea to find old orienteering courses and once a year go through one just to keep the skill-set tuned up.

  3. #2563
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    Quote Originally Posted by booney_1 View Post
    It seems that very often people in remote areas are out of cell phone range, but their cell phone still has a charge.

    It seems to me that search and rescue teams in remote areas should have a portable cell base station to bring into the base camp of the operations to try and make contact with the lost person's cell. These are not that expensive and could be shared by a number of agencies.

    As an engineer, it's frustrating to hear about people like inch worm who are lost, but have a type of advanced radio with them, but nobody is listening??

    Technology!!!

    Does anybody know if search and rescue teams use anything like this?
    I thought the tower shown was a MWS portable radio tower.

    There are COW (cell on wheels) units available. http://cellsitesolutions.com/portfolio-view/cows/
    SAR groups could have agreements with the cell companies to obtain one (or several) in cases like this. Knowing the victim has a cell phone but is in a limited or no service area this would be a good early strategy.
    "Chainsaw" GA-ME 2011

  4. #2564
    ME => GA 19AT3 rickb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don H View Post
    I thought the tower shown was a MWS portable radio tower.

    There are COW (cell on wheels) units available. http://cellsitesolutions.com/portfolio-view/cows/
    SAR groups could have agreements with the cell companies to obtain one (or several) in cases like this. Knowing the victim has a cell phone but is in a limited or no service area this would be a good early strategy.
    If it were a Kennedy who was lat, they would have sent up one of these:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-massacre.html

  5. #2565
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluebearee View Post
    I guess you didn't see any of the coverage of her search or the NWL episode. Maine Warden service has a huge mobile command center with a large antennae tower that was brought up to Sugarloaf and stationed there for the duration of the search effort - several weeks.

    I know that radio equipment is usually brought in to facilitate communication among the responders...who are using "normal" or analog radios. A portable cell base station would operate on the frequencies that cell phones use. Knowing her cell number they could send her a text with instructions, and look for her phone to connect to the portable tower.

    I've never heard of this being used for a search and rescue, but it seems pretty reasonable. Law enforcement use these from time to time in various operations.

  6. #2566

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    The man who died in the coastal mountains in Oregon was found by "pinging" his cell phone and using triangulation.

    I suggested it.

    If I had known about the search, I would have suggested it earlier.

    I had to read about the search in newspaper headlines I saw at a newsstand.

  7. #2567

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickb View Post
    If it were a Kennedy who was lat, they would have sent up one of these:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-massacre.html
    Spy plane?

    I do know, local authorities can request inter-agency support.

  8. #2568

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHuth View Post
    Wow! That's not so good. When I teach orienteering, the student uses the compass to sight two objects in the distance along the intended heading, and keeps them lined up and walks to the objects. When they reach the first one, they take the sighting again, and find new objects to head to. This practice gives much better results than having your head down and stare at the compass.

    It's a good idea to find old orienteering courses and once a year go through one just to keep the skill-set tuned up.
    There are orienteering clubs: "orienteering" is a fun sport.

    I would think their map and compass training would be effective.

  9. #2569
    Registered User Goonky's Avatar
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    <!--?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="no"?-->I want to make a plug for map and compass skills. I don’t agree they are useless if you are lost, in fact, they are just what you need.


    Here’s a topographical map of the area, the X marks the spot she was found.

    Screen Shot 2016-05-28 at 6.22.00 PM.jpg



    You can see the trail north actually runs predominantly east / northeast. You can see from the topo it’s a steep drop into the stream, then after you cross the stream, you cross an old road bed, and you start climbing, though it’s not as steep.


    What do we know? We know she crossed Orbeton Stream, climbed a bit, then stopped to go to the bathroom.


    Let’s assume she had a topo map and orienteering compass. Given where she ended up, I would guess she went left (north) of the trail to go to the bathroom. Then she gets turned around and can’t find the trail. What does she know?


    She’s knows she’s been climbing away from the stream. A quick check of the map would confirm that she’d been climbing. If she took a bearing west 270 degrees and followed it - from anywhere along that stretch I marked with the red arrow - she would have come to either Redington Pond or Orbeton Stream, and the woods road just east of it.


    It would have admittedly have been a difficult climb down given the terrain and the fact that she was not on the trail. But look at the distance - less than a mile if I’m reading that right.


    Let’s say she hits the stream. She’s not as lost as she was before, though she still wouldn’t know exactly where she was. (Plus she now has access to water.) Now she needs to decide - do I follow the stream to the right (north)? or to the left (south)?


    If she follows it north, she hits Redington Pond. At that point she wouldn't have been lost at all, she’d have known exactly she was. That pond is on the Maine topo Map 6. It’s not where she wants to be, but that’s a completely different thing than being lost. Then she could have turned around and followed the stream till she hit the trailhead. I’m not saying it would be an easy walk, I understand the challenge - but again - look at the distance. Less than a mile. She could have taken the woods road which would probably be the best bet.


    Even if she’d just gotten herself to the woods road by the stream and camped there, they would have found her.


    I know it's easy to sit here on my couch and backseat drive. But you know - it's all I can do. I've tried to put myself in that spot and think through what I would have done. I feel I owe her that in some way. I strive to learn as much as I can from her ordeal to be a better hiker.

    I do understand the “stay put we’ll find you advice”, but when it’s this remote, I’m not sure it’s the best thing.



    I feel I can relate to her because I have hiked for years without these map and compass skills, but after she was found last fall, so close to the trail, I immediately took a map and compass course. Such a game changer for me, I feel much more confident.


    I know they mentioned a compass was in her gear, but I don’t know that she had a topo map, it may have just been a profile map - which is not helpful in this situation.


    God bless her. I truly think she was doing the best she could. She was an experienced hiker, yes. She'd come all the way from Harper's Ferry. But as a few folks mentioned, once you’re off the trail, you need a completely different set of skills.



  10. #2570

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    This topo map indicates a (dotted line) trail: she may have believed she was near enough the trail, she would be found.

    I agree, an entirely different set of skills, than endurance walking only, are a necessity.

  11. #2571

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    A trail profile, and a map are two different things.
    The report said she had a section map.
    I have MATC maps, those are only ones I know of, and they are pretty good.

    Even a crude dwg with AT on it would be enough if you know which side of trail got off and roughly where you are. She had to know she just crossed the stream. Trail didnt meander around in her area, should have been easy to find with a rough idea of direction. How she could walk very far from where she knew the AT was, is almost incomprehensible in a healthy state. Panic could cloud thinking though.

    She shouldnt have gone more than a few feet to use bathroom. After walking 100 ft and not finding it it would time to stop and go back other way, if not find then, look at map and compass. She surely did not go uphill, or downhill to use bathroom. Nobody does if can help it. Its kind of bizarre .

    Its still possible small stroke or heat illness /dehydration could play a role and she would be oblivious to it, but not think real lucid. Her texts didnt seem completely normal to me for situation.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 05-28-2016 at 19:25.

  12. #2572

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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post

    Even a crude dwg with AT on it would be enough if you know which side of trail got off and roughly where you are.
    We saw that in the Boundary Waters Wilderness Area - some women were lost and we gave them a piece of paper with a crude map drawn on it, indicating portages and such. They made it home, no problem.

  13. #2573

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    I seem to remember (from a while back) she had chosen not to carry her SPOT in Maine. Was this mentioned on the NWL episode? I still have that saved and maybe will re-watch. I don't remember hearing why; I would have surmised it was due to weight but really an electric toothbrush? I saw something listed that didn't make sense to me in the inventory but didn't realize it was electric. But anyhow, I had the notion she hadn't carried the SPOT for awhile. Usually I feel these are overkill on the AT and only for peace of mind to those at home (many hikers told me when I was Ridgerunning their mother/parents/spouse insisted) but in her case this was obviously a fatal omission. Again, so sad & tragically senseless.
    AT02, LT 03-04, BMT05, NPT06, Haute Route07, Abol Ridgerunner 07/08, EBC Nepal trek 10

  14. #2574
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    One of the comments in the report by game warden Adams, was when they visited the site with the husband and daughter, to get out they walked downhill for about 30 minutes, intersecting and following an old logging road then hit the the old railroad trail. They made a left (so south) and hit the AT.

    The report noted the lack of dense vegetation and that while the hill was steep, the travel was not difficult.

    My read on these comments was a sense from the report indicating some puzzlement as to why Gerry didn't herself do this.

    And this becomes the puzzlement I think everybody has, why the decisions made ?, which on one level seem completely out of character from someone who had just hiked from Virginia. A deeper read reveals many issues including apparent lake of sense of direction that manifested itself early in her hike, lack of experience in planning for a "what if" scenario (emergency food supply, rescue beacon, compass), potential lack of awareness of the surrounding area which might have yielded a self rescue scenario, etc...

    It will always be a puzzlement.

  15. #2575
    Registered User Goonky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightingguy View Post
    One of the comments in the report by game warden Adams, was when they visited the site with the husband and daughter, to get out they walked downhill for about 30 minutes, intersecting and following an old logging road then hit the the old railroad trail. They made a left (so south) and hit the AT.

    The report noted the lack of dense vegetation and that while the hill was steep, the travel was not difficult.

    My read on these comments was a sense from the report indicating some puzzlement as to why Gerry didn't herself do this.

    And this becomes the puzzlement I think everybody has, why the decisions made ?, which on one level seem completely out of character from someone who had just hiked from Virginia. A deeper read reveals many issues including apparent lake of sense of direction that manifested itself early in her hike, lack of experience in planning for a "what if" scenario (emergency food supply, rescue beacon, compass), potential lack of awareness of the surrounding area which might have yielded a self rescue scenario, etc...

    It will always be a puzzlement.
    That part of the report struck me as well. How easily they walked out. Of course - they weren't lost - so in a completely different frame of mind. I read this essay a while back and thought it was a fascinating read. I was especially interested in how they compared getting lost to the stages of grief.

    http://www.smcmsar.org/downloads/Los...20Behavior.pdf

    It gave me some insight into how something like this could happen.

  16. #2576

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pedaling Fool View Post
    Right, I read that. It's not a recommendation for others to do the same.

  17. #2577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goonky View Post
    That part of the report struck me as well. How easily they walked out. Of course - they weren't lost - so in a completely different frame of mind. I read this essay a while back and thought it was a fascinating read. I was especially interested in how they compared getting lost to the stages of grief.

    http://www.smcmsar.org/downloads/Los...20Behavior.pdf

    It gave me some insight into how something like this could happen.
    From the essay you posted:

    "Scientists have not yet agreed on a uniformly accepted model for the stages that people go through when they're lost--it's a fairly immature discipline, and there is a lot of individual variation.Some skip or repeat certain steps or reorder them. But most cases will reflect a general pattern something like this: In Stage One you deny that you're disoriented; in Stage Two you panic when you admit that you're lost; in Stage Three you calm down and form a strategy; in Stage Four you deteriorate both mentally and physically, as your strategy fails to get you out; and in Stage Five you become resigned to your plight as you run out of options."

    It seems her stage 3 strategy was to find higher ground to get out a cell signal and when that failed to stay put and await rescue (which is what many us were taught to do). After waiting for some time for help and none arriving, it is not hard to imagine Inchworm in stage 4. When I read what has been released of her journal writings you can see stage 5 setting in. Her behavior from when she got lost until the end may seem odd but it follows along with what we know about how lost people behave.
    If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

  18. #2578
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Her texts didnt seem completely normal to me for situation.
    to me, her texts and this whole "i have to get higher to find cell phone coverage" notion tell you pretty much everything you need to know.

  19. #2579

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goonky View Post
    That part of the report struck me as well. How easily they walked out. Of course - they weren't lost - so in a completely different frame of mind. I read this essay a while back and thought it was a fascinating read. I was especially interested in how they compared getting lost to the stages of grief.

    http://www.smcmsar.org/downloads/Los...20Behavior.pdf

    It gave me some insight into how something like this could happen.
    very interesting read, thanks much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketsocks View Post
    very interesting read, thanks much.

    This was indeed an excellent article. I hike alone (if you don't count my dog) and am now going to invest the time in learning how to use a compass and map correctly. I'll also research more thoroughly survival skills. Thanks.
    Follow your bliss......
    Joseph Campbell
    http://www.trailjournals.com/rockie/

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