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  1. #21
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Thanks Connie. I totally forgot about stoves and burn ban areas. One more consideration.
    Everyone looks down on white gas stoves these days. However, they can go anywhere at anytime. Some are multi fuel and can use canisters if needed.
    I own 3, one is multi fuel. Are they the lightest? Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on where I'm going, the season and for how long.

    Wayne


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  2. #22
    Registered User Venchka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by life scout View Post
    My wife and I go hiking together. When we go we take a canister stove. I take the cat can alcohol stove on solo or overnight trips.

    When cooking with a huge pot the cat can stove won't have the btu's to get a lot of water hot. Not enough fuel.

    I take a pot that will hold 4-6 cups. Big enough for 3 people really. The canister stove make more weight sense the more cooking you do. The amount of alcohol fuel will pass the weight saving after 6 or 7 cooked meals.
    If the last sentence is true, I thought I had read 5-6 days, then for me alcohol would only be feasible for a long weekend at best. I need to cook water twice a day.
    Everyone is different. Therefore we have a bewildering array of stoves to choose from. Flip a coin.

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  3. #23

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    It is not so important to know the exact weights of everything in your pack. If you spread everything out in plain sight that you are taking, there wil 3 categories

    1-this item is needed but needs to be lightened
    2-this item is good as is
    3-this item is not needed
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  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venchka View Post
    If the last sentence is true, I thought I had read 5-6 days, then for me alcohol would only be feasible for a long weekend at best. I need to cook water twice a day.
    Everyone is different. Therefore we have a bewildering array of stoves to choose from. Flip a coin.

    Wayne
    Fairly typical.
    But it all depends
    My alcohol setup is 8.9 oz for 16 days
    My light cannister setup w/small cannister is 9.4 for 20 days
    Thats about my break even point, 2wks ,boiling only for dinner

    A cannister setup can be light enough it dont matter. Mine is. So i dont whine when alcohol is banned.
    Last edited by MuddyWaters; 06-10-2016 at 11:05.

  5. #25
    Registered User egilbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    It is not so important to know the exact weights of everything in your pack. If you spread everything out in plain sight that you are taking, there wil 3 categories

    1-this item is needed but needs to be lightened
    2-this item is good as is
    3-this item is not needed
    Its the number three item that really saves a lot of weight

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambit McCrae View Post
    4L pot holy cow! Are you sure Tipi didnt give you that??? You could cook bear valley soup for an entire shelter in a 4L pot haha, just need something big enough to boil 2-3 cups of water.
    Perhaps, the OP meant a 4 CUP pot?

  7. #27
    Thru-hiker 2013 NoBo CarlZ993's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lnj View Post
    I already have an ultralight tent. A down versus synthetic bag is on my list already and I am unwilling to part with my pads. Comfort of sleep is paramount. So I'm looking at what I don't need to bring at all, what I can bring, but in a different way, and what I can supplement with UL gear.
    There are many sleeping pads that are extremely light as well as comfortable (e.g. Thermarest Xlite). A 4-L pot would be a group pot. I just got back from a 9-day trip in Utah w/ my wife. We used a 1.4L pot (GSI MicroDualist) to cook for both of us. Probably 2-L would be as large as you really need for 2 people.

    Alcohol stoves work pretty good for a solo stove. Granted, they're not as efficient - heat wise - as a canister or white gas stove. An empty small soda bottle can be used for an alcohol fuel bottle. It doesn't weigh much. For two or more, I'd opt for a canister stove for most 3-season cooking. An MSR 8 oz fuel canister weighs about 13.3 oz full. So, 5.3 oz or so is the weight of the canister empty. Most canister stoves weigh around the 3-4 oz range (some sub 2 oz; others higher).

    Good luck in your quest for a lighter pack.
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  8. #28

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    If I read correctly and you are using a 4L pot on the regular with utilizing its capacity, I would recommends a canister stove over an alcohol stove.

  9. #29
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    My wife and I use a 900ml toaks pot with a fancy feast stove. 2 boils per meal. Just under 2 oz of fuel a meal. That's usually a risotto with veggies and tea. Breakfast is a ton of coffee, oatmeal and breakfast burrito. Anything bigger for me is use a canister stove. In winter my 2 liter pot holds my whisper lite.


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  10. #30
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    I think after reading the info above, that my biggest weight savings that makes the most sense for me/us, is to just go smaller and ultralite on my cook pot and leave the stove and fuel alone. I could make a cat stove and use it and it would be half the weight of what I have now, but even half of very low weight, add on the fiddle factor, and it just doesn't make a big enough impact. Its the big honkin pot that's the brick in my pack. I can fix that easily enough.

    Thanks all, for your help in the analysis. Gambit probably nailed it closest... I need to leave a good bit behind or find an alternative tactic for taking it. The wallet and keys alone will be a big weight savings too. These are just the learning processes. The shakedown hike(s) are seriously invaluable! Nothing teaches a lesson like lugging a concrete block up and down mountains for a few days, right?!
    " Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt. "

  11. #31

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    I played around with a bunch of different UL alcy stoves to realize that my canister stove is just so much faster and fiddle free. I get more time to enjoy my coffee, breakfast, hot dinner, etc. I know there is a minor weight penalty but it is well worth it for the convenience and durability.

  12. #32
    Registered User -Rush-'s Avatar
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    My solo my cook kit weighs a pound and contains a burner and fuel canister. I also have a Zelph Starlight alcohol stove system that weighs nearly the same if I include the aluminum foil windscreen and 4-8oz of denatured alcohol. I save maybe 3oz over the burner setup, but I like coffee in the morning and the burner makes that so much easier among other things. It's cleaner to deal with, it's safer to boil with in the vestibule, safer in wind and if blown over, and there are less pieces to fumble with every time you want to boil water.

  13. #33
    Registered User Drybones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlZ993 View Post
    MSR PocketRocket, mine weighs about 4.2 oz w/ the case.

    .
    I have a canister stove that weighs 25 grams that I bought off the internet, the cost was < $15, not much bigger than a quarter, fits inside my pot, I still use a cat stove for long hike due to fuel supply, but the little stove does great for short hikes and car camping.

  14. #34
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    An alky stove weighs next to nothing. But... (there's always a "but.")

    - The fuel needs to be carried in some kind of container, so add a bit for the weight of that container
    - Alcohol puts out far less energy per unit weight than isobutane
    - you still need something (probably made of metal) to support your cook pot

    So -- with an alky stove, almost all the weight is in the fuel.

    With the canister stove, you have a different problem: you're stuck with the dead weight of the fuel container. A standard small canister weighs 7 oz, but only contains 3.5 oz. of fuel. So that's 3.5 oz of container weight, regardless of how much fuel is actually in it. You're also stuck with guessing or estimating just how much fuel is left, because you can't see it.

    Alcohol stoves are single shot. You dole out a quantity of fuel (say, 1 oz.) into the stove and light it. Once it's lit, it can't be regulated, and is generally difficult or impossible to extinguish. You simply let that fuel burn. For an ounce of alcohol, you might get 2-4 minutes burn time.

    Long story short: if you can put up with an alky stove, for short trips, you'll save weight. Canister stoves are easier to start, stop and regulate while they burn. Accidents (spills of lit fuel) can happen with alky stoves, but not canisters.

  15. #35
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    For me, its the noise of a butane stove that drives me nuts. I pick up one of those little Chinese titanium stove and it sounds like a NASA rocket. plus, on a trip last January, my buddy's canister stove was sputtering like crazy. My fancee feast stove was running like a champ. I like that it cant "break".

  16. #36
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    I built a few alky stoves and played around with them. But was pretty disappointed when I weighed the fuel. There was so little weight payoff for the trouble I just stayed with my canister.
    Also a leak can be a pain with liquid fuel. It can contaminate food at the worst, or just leave you with less fuel than needed.

  17. #37
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    I would say the most significant differences are that alcohol systems are very diverse (canisters work mostly the same way) and alcohol systems have a steep learning curve (canisters are easy). As a result, comments about alcohol stoves are typically based on one type of system that may not have been optimized to the needs of the user. The OP asked about cat can stoves, which have severe limitations. So the real question is are you interested in investing the time and effort necessary to develop an alcohol system that best meets your needs? If yes, then the performance specs for that system will be used to answer the question. However I generally do not recommend alcohol systems unless people are willing to explore all the various options and develop a system the best meets their needs.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNshadetree View Post
    I built a few alky stoves and played around with them. But was pretty disappointed when I weighed the fuel. There was so little weight payoff for the trouble I just stayed with my canister.
    Also a leak can be a pain with liquid fuel. It can contaminate food at the worst, or just leave you with less fuel than needed.
    One of the mesh pockets on my pack is the "noxious substances" pocket, where DEET, stove fuel, Gurney Goo, sunscreen, soap, and hand sanitizer all go. That way anything that leaks at least doesn't leak inside the pack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Odd Man Out View Post
    I generally do not recommend alcohol systems unless people are willing to explore all the various options and develop a system the best meets their needs.
    I think that's true of any gear - when people ask "what's the best?" the answer is always "I don't know, it really depends on your hiking style." Moving to MYOG (which alky stoves most often are) means that you have to learn what YOUR needs are and what design is best for YOU. But once you do, you can make something that's well tailored to meet your needs. My Penny Stove 2.0 serves my needs quite well, thank you, but it's surely not for everyone (or even most people).

    My big beef with a canister stove is that I always wind up bringing a second canister, because I never know how much gas I have left in the first one. There's no such issue with an alcohol burner.
    I always know where I am. I'm right here.

  19. #39
    Registered User gbolt's Avatar
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    I own the micro rocket; which replaced my MSR Wisperlite 20 year old stove (exept in winter). It is my go to stove for overnight/two night hikes. I also purchased the Caldera Cone System for the Snow Peak Hybrid Summit Cup to start practicing with; because I thought I would use this on a thru hike. That was before PCT bans of the Alchy Stoves occurred and when Canister availability on the AT was suspect. Now, three or four years later, I would ask, "Is finding Canisters on the AT any more difficult than heet or other sources of alchohol? Or is lack of availability of canisters no longer an issue on current AT Thru Hikes?. Actually, the canister and micro rocket take up less volumn and pack easier than the Caldera Cone System and I really am thinking of selling the System. Following MuddyWaters post, "Should I sell or should I hold"! Lol
    "gbolt" on the Trail

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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Kevin View Post
    My big beef with a canister stove is that I always wind up bringing a second canister, because I never know how much gas I have left in the first one.
    In my gear box I keep an empty canister with 2 numbers written on it. One is the empty weight in grams, the other is the full weight in grams. So I can weigh any partial canister and know exactly how much charge is left and judge that against how long a trip I'm planning. Works well and I've never run out saves grams not carrying "just in case" weight.

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