Rain ingress problem with tarptent contrail

[kenp]

I was recently camping at Dolls flats (near Roan Mt, TN) close to the edge of the woods, when a heavy rainstorm blew in. The tent was set up so the long edge was perpendicular to the wind (I wasn't expecting the storm). The main problem was that rivulets of water were running down the sheltered side of the tent and instead of dripping off the edge of the tent, they were running back into the tent along the mesh towards the edge of the bath tub. Eventually the mesh got so sodden, that it weighted down the edge of the bath tub to the ground and the water started coming into the tent.

I tried adjusting the bath tub with the tensioners in the vestibule, but to no avail. The bathtub shape is delicate,even in good conditions a wayward map can distort it.

The heavy rain didn't last long so not too much water came in thankfully.

Some of the problem may be due to the strong wind coming in one side of the tent and exiting the other, pushing down the mesh as it exits.

What can I do to mitigate this problem next time?

[garlic08]

Did you stake down the center point(s) of the side(s)? You'll see a small webbing loop there. You can add a short guyline, too, but I haven't. I carry two extra stakes for the side points in case I need to make a cross-wind pitch, or am expecting a blow.

It's hard to adjust floor tension while you're sitting on the floor.

[kenp]

Did you stake down the center point(s) of the side(s)? You'll see a small webbing loop there. You can add a short guyline, too, but I haven't. I carry two extra stakes for the side points in case I need to make a cross-wind pitch, or am expecting a blow.

It's hard to adjust floor tension while you're sitting on the floor.

Yes, I had guys and stakes on the center point of the sides. I can imagine how much flapping about there would be otherwise.

Good point about tensioning while sitting on tub...

[Malto]

Yes, I had guys and stakes on the center point of the sides. I can imagine how much flapping about there would be otherwise.

Good point about tensioning while sitting on tub...

I have a tarp tent Squall that I used to use and it needed to retentioned after sitting up for a while. (that is one reason I use cuben for my shelters now, no stretch.). I also found, at least with the squall, that a small difference in setup could result in wildly different results.

[BigRing]

I have one too and had the same problem once. Remember to loosen the tensioners at each corner, stake out, insert the hiking stick".......and then snug it up. Doing this will keep the drip edge of the tent out and away from the netting.

[Wise Old Owl]

My mess kit has a Green pad and a sponge on one side, I have a mini sham wow too. Part about Backpacking is putting up with a few failures. You can have the best tent in the world and a Hurricane can blow up and rain for three days. You will get wet.

[MtDoraDave]

This happened with my Squall 2 once. I figured the design would be better if the screen was sewn a half inch back from the edge of the tent, so the rain could drip off rather than loop around to the screen ... so I emailed Henry Shires about this issue with my suggestion. He emailed back and said to be sure my poles were set to 115 cm, or perhaps a bit lower, and it should solve this problem. Funny, I didn't tell him I had my poles set longer to make the entrance taller - but apparently I am not the first one to do this - or to have it cause a water intrusion problem.

Watch the setup video again to be sure you are doing it as it was designed to be done, then, if you did pitch just like the instructions and had your poles set to the recommended height when this happened, sent Henry (at Tarptent.com ) an email.

[kenp]

This happened with my Squall 2 once. I figured the design would be better if the screen was sewn a half inch back from the edge of the tent, so the rain could drip off rather than loop around to the screen ... so I emailed Henry Shires about this issue with my suggestion. He emailed back and said to be sure my poles were set to 115 cm, or perhaps a bit lower, and it should solve this problem. Funny, I didn't tell him I had my poles set longer to make the entrance taller - but apparently I am not the first one to do this - or to have it cause a water intrusion problem.

Yes I was thinking the same thing about setting the mesh a bit back from the edge.

I was using the tarptent supplied pole, so presumably the height was correct.

This problem was not a major one. The conditions were as bad I as would expect on the AT regarding wind/rain in summer and the problem was more of an annoyance than a catastrophe. So the the tent performed reasonably well, given the compromises required for weight.

My main reason for asking, was to figure out if the problem was user error or a design issue. Still not sure

[Engine]

It's why we sold our Double Rainbow. We really liked the tent, but a hard blowing rain it would find it's way in no matter how we tweaked the pitch...

[Tipi Walter]

The main problem was that rivulets of water were running down the sheltered side of the tent and instead of dripping off the edge of the tent, they were running back into the tent along the mesh towards the edge of the bath tub. Eventually the mesh got so sodden, that it weighted down the edge of the bath tub to the ground and the water started coming into the tent.

Oops, shouldn't happen no matter what.

I have a tarp tent Squall that I used to use and it needed to retentioned after sitting up for a while. (that is one reason I use cuben for my shelters now, no stretch.). I also found, at least with the squall, that a small difference in setup could result in wildly different results.

Setup tweaking seems to be a problem with these tents. If and when Franco (who works for Tarptent) ever replies to this thread, he'll probably show a picture of How It's Really Supposed to be Set Up" with all the proper indepth instructions as if we're all doing it wrong and just can't get it right.

Part about Backpacking is putting up with a few failures. You can have the best tent in the world and a Hurricane can blow up and rain for three days. You will get wet.

This is just untrue. I will not get wet in my tent(s) no matter the conditions, and I have been in many long winter rainstorms---75 hour rain on the North Fork Citico in December, 153 hour rainstorm in the Snowbird backcountry, 180 rainstorm in the Big Frog wilderness. My Snowbird storm caught me in "hurricane" winds on Whiggs Meadow at 5,000 feet with horizontal rain and I never did get wet, even with ground water under the tent an inch deep.

This happened with my Squall 2 once.

Another oops.

It's why we sold our Double Rainbow. We really liked the tent, but a hard blowing rain it would find it's way in no matter how we tweaked the pitch...

The whole purpose of a tent is to keep you and your gear dry no matter the conditions---high winds, cold rain, horizontal rain, condensation, blizzard etc.

[daddytwosticks]

This is one of those rare occasions where I'll agree with Tipi.

I gave up on tarp-tents (tried three models from two makers) and their fussy set up requirements and misting, sagging silnylon. I went back two a standard one man double wall tent from a major manufacturer (MSR Hubba NX-1) and couldn't be happier. Sets up quick, easy, and is very sturdy. I know tons of hikers love tarp-tents and use them with much success. They are great products, but not for a lazy, picky hiker like me.

[ggreaves]

I was recently camping at Dolls flats (near Roan Mt, TN) close to the edge of the woods....What can I do to mitigate this problem next time?

go into the woods and hang a hammock and tarp

[kenp]

Oops, shouldn't happen no matter what.


This is just untrue. I will not get wet in my tent(s) no matter the conditions, and I have been in many long winter rainstorms---75 hour rain on the North Fork Citico in December, 153 hour rainstorm in the Snowbird backcountry, 180 rainstorm in the Big Frog wilderness. My Snowbird storm caught me in "hurricane" winds on Whiggs Meadow at 5,000 feet with horizontal rain and I never did get wet, even with ground water under the tent an inch deep.


The whole purpose of a tent is to keep you and your gear dry no matter the conditions---high winds, cold rain, horizontal rain, condensation, blizzard etc.

Yes, but, is your tent lightweight? I have a tent I use regularly back in Ireland, keeps me dry in week long rain, but ultra light it 'aint.

[Tipi Walter]

Yes, but, is your tent lightweight? I have a tent I use regularly back in Ireland, keeps me dry in week long rain, but ultra light it 'aint.

The first measure of a shelter is its ability to protect you from whatever you will encounter weatherwise (within reason, i.e. not falling trees, lightning, a tornado). The second and less important is weight, again within reason (we don't carry canvas wall tents or canvas tipis with woodstoves etc).

Most backpackers consider shelter weight to be the highest qualification but it is not---and so we have this thread on leaking tents.

[MuddyWaters]

The whole purpose of a tent is to keep you and your gear dry no matter the conditions---high winds, cold rain, horizontal rain, condensation, blizzard etc.

Depends.

Tents are compromises.

With smartyphones, modern weather forecasts, and sturdy shelters every 7 miles on AT, wimpy tarps and fair weather shelters suffice 99.+% of time for most .


As long as have plan B (hike out to safety), and spoonful of common sense, not usually a big deal.

Often UL shelters can require vigilance in conditions that push them to limits , to avoid water intrusion, or snow collapse, or wind failure. Thats a tradeoff. Some know they made that tradeoff, ....but some who just follow the herd find out hard way.

The reason for traveling light...is so one can travel faster. Part of this technique depends on using intelligence, experience, common sense, and the ability to travel fast to stay safe. UL shelters certainly arent reccomended for taking up residence in backcountry on exposed ridges for a month.

Is it worth it to spend restless night now and then to save a couple lbs? Maybe. Depends on person.

But sleeping in secure tent while storm rages outside is definitely a good feeling.

[Engine]

The first measure of a shelter is its ability to protect you from whatever you will encounter weatherwise (within reason, i.e. not falling trees, lightning, a tornado). The second and less important is weight, again within reason (we don't carry canvas wall tents or canvas tipis with woodstoves etc).

Most backpackers consider shelter weight to be the highest qualification but it is not---and so we have this thread on leaking tents.

Well, in all fairness to Tarptent, had the bathtub floor been only a few inches deeper, it would have been the perfect tent for our needs. I do however agree with Tipi that if you're going to sell something and call it a tent, rain should NOT be finding it's way in regularly.

[garlic08]

Depends.

Tents are compromises...But sleeping in secure tent while storm rages outside is definitely a good feeling.

Ditto all this, and throw in a sense of adventure as well. I'm reminded of a guy I met on the AZT who spent a month out there without a shelter. First thought, the guy's an idiot, but when he described the adventures he had on the few nights it snowed or rained and how he dealt with it, I came away amazed at his resourcefulness, and the twinkle in his eye. He came out a better man.

There may be such a thing as being too safe. It definitely depends on the person.

[Tipi Walter]

Depends.

Tents are compromises.

With smartyphones, modern weather forecasts, and sturdy shelters every 7 miles on AT, wimpy tarps and fair weather shelters suffice 99.+% of time for most .


As long as have plan B (hike out to safety), and spoonful of common sense, not usually a big deal.

Often UL shelters can require vigilance in conditions that push them to limits , to avoid water intrusion, or snow collapse, or wind failure. Thats a tradeoff. Some know they made that tradeoff, ....but some who just follow the herd find out hard way.

The reason for traveling light...is so one can travel faster. Part of this technique depends on using intelligence, experience, common sense, and the ability to travel fast to stay safe. UL shelters certainly arent reccomended for taking up residence in backcountry on exposed ridges for a month.

Is it worth it to spend restless night now and then to save a couple lbs? Maybe. Depends on person.

But sleeping in secure tent while storm rages outside is definitely a good feeling.

I totally agree that sleeping in a secure tent in a storm is definitely a good feeling. But since the OP put this thread in the general forum I am assuming some of us backpack into places without AT box shelters and plan on staying out without bailing no matter how long bad weather lasts or what our weather radio pings. We take what comes on a day-by-day basis and have the gear to do so.

Your quote "The reason for traveling light . . . is so one can travel faster" is true as it expresses the current rage to embrace the Fast & Light hysteria. But this is mostly true for long trail thruhikers, they are on a 2,000 mile forced march. The rest of us don't want to go fast because #1 it's risky falling-wise and #2 the faster you go the quicker you leave the wilderness. My whole goal is to stay in the wilderness as long as possible.

Well, in all fairness to Tarptent, had the bathtub floor been only a few inches deeper, it would have been the perfect tent for our needs. I do however agree with Tipi that if you're going to sell something and call it a tent, rain should NOT be finding it's way in regularly.

We can be fairer to Tarptent if we point out not only its successes but its failures. No tent is perfect. Every tent has its flaws and no one should shy away from testing a tent to its limits and reporting on how it fails. I have written extensively on the weaknesses of my several Hilleberg tents.

Remember, Kenp talked about water running into his tent. Malto talked about setup tweaking. BigRing "had the same problem once." Mtdoradave said it happened with his Squall once. See a trend here?

Ditto all this, and throw in a sense of adventure as well. I'm reminded of a guy I met on the AZT who spent a month out there without a shelter. First thought, the guy's an idiot, but when he described the adventures he had on the few nights it snowed or rained and how he dealt with it, I came away amazed at his resourcefulness, and the twinkle in his eye. He came out a better man.

There may be such a thing as being too safe. It definitely depends on the person.

I know I could live like a wild dog in terrible weather with no shelter as in your AZT example, but I need more particulars---How many nights was he out without interruption (or town visits)? What did he use for a sleeping pad and sleeping bag? What kind of pack and how much food did he carry? 30 days worth of food for the entire trip? If not, how did he resupply? What were the exact weather conditions?

So if he had no shelter, did he have a bivy bag? How much snow did he get? How much rain and at what temps? What season was in he when he pulled his month-long trip?

Being "too safe" to me is not about the gear I carry but more in line with MuddyWaters' post about relying on AT shelters and frequent town bails. I.e.: Have a Plan B---hike out to safety. This is being "too safe". Hike out to safety? But what's the fun in that? And then you're trip is ruined because you bailed. No, I'd rather carry everything I need for the duration and especially a shelter that has been tested in all conditions and is inside my Circle of Trust.

Why would I want to start a 21 day January trip into the mountains of NC and TN and not bring a shelter? Just so I could have a twinkle in my eye? No thanks.

[Secondmouse]

I totally agree that sleeping in a secure tent in a storm is definitely a good feeling...

Your quote "The reason for traveling light . . . is so one can travel faster" is true as it expresses the current rage to embrace the Fast & Light hysteria...

But this is mostly true for long trail thruhikers, they are on a 2,000 mile forced march... My whole goal is to stay in the wilderness as long as possible...

Being "too safe" to me is not about the gear I carry but more in line with MuddyWaters' post about relying on AT shelters and frequent town bails. I.e.: Have a Plan B---hike out to safety. This is being "too safe". Hike out to safety? But what's the fun in that?..

Why would I want to start a 21 day January trip into the mountains of NC and TN and not bring a shelter? Just so I could have a twinkle in my eye? No thanks.

Walter, always entertaining and often right! thanks dude...

I understand the purpose of lightweight tents and I understand that choosing a tent for traveling on the AT is an exercise in compromise. in fact, I just recommended that a friend ditch his 4lb tent and check out one of these for his upcoming section hike where his plan is to stay in shelters most of the time.

too often, I see people blame gear who failed to understand and utilize it according to design and directions, but when someone says a tent failed its #1 purpose for lack of an extra inch of floor height, or repositioning where the netting is attached, etc., I don't see how that's defensible.

[Engine]

Walter, always entertaining and often right! thanks dude...

I understand the purpose of lightweight tents and I understand that choosing a tent for traveling on the AT is an exercise in compromise. in fact, I just recommended that a friend ditch his 4lb tent and check out one of these for his upcoming section hike where his plan is to stay in shelters most of the time.

too often, I see people blame gear who failed to understand and utilize it according to design and directions, but when someone says a tent failed its #1 purpose for lack of an extra inch of floor height, or repositioning where the netting is attached, etc., I don't see how that's defensible.

Never said it was only an inch of floor height, it's more like 4-5". But, I don't require a defense so it's all good...