58% of every person between 15 and 29 years old will hike this summer.

[Oslohiker]

Well, that is in Norway.

I decided to not write about my country on Whiteblaze anymore, because this is fact a forum about the Appalachian trail, and it is mainly for Americans. I started a thread about the freedom to roam, and got some interesting answers, and thought I should end it there. But I could just not let this one slide. Personally I think these insane numbers are because we have the freedom to roam over here, and we don’t have to pay to use the Wilderness (I just got back from my last trip to the US paying 50 dollars to enter Yosemite and Death Valley). This may be something to think about:

Source (in Norwegian):
https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/ungdomm...let-1.13054610.

[egilbe]

How crowded was it in Yosemite and Death Valley?

[Oslohiker]

How crowded was it in Yosemite and Death Valley?

When I entered Yosemite I asked the ranger how crowded it was that day, and he replied that it was moderate. I felt it was more than that in the Valley.

In Death Valley it was extremely very few.... from what I got from it, it was mostly Europeans there. Maybe I saw
fifteen other cars.

I was in Yosemite at a Wednesday and Death Valley at a Thursday two weeks ago. I did not hike.

[MuddyWaters]

Well, that is in Norway.
. Personally I think these insane numbers are because we have the freedom to roam over here, and we don’t have to pay to use the Wilderness (I just got back from my last trip to the US paying 50 dollars to enter Yosemite and Death Valley). This may be something to think about:

Source (in Norwegian):
https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/ungdomm...let-1.13054610.

Personally, I think its because people here have a lot more choices of things to do with leisure time. Yes, most of it mindless crap, but it fits most people. People do whats close to them.

Where I live, most people spend all their free time socializing (tailgating)with others around college and pro sports games schedules, fishing, hunting, following kids around that play competitive travel sports, etc. Family vacations are to beach, disneyland, cruises, ski trips, etc.

No time or desire to go walk. And usually in such poor shape its a nonstarter anyway.

GSMNP is the most visited national park. Most visitors dont even venture into backcountry, .........and the ridiculous spectacle of Gatlinburg is a bigger attraction than the park.

Its got nothing to do with money or fees charged. Hiking is dirt cheap, its the cheapest vacation I know of. Its got to do with desires. People would rather do other options, (and Im glad.)

[Traveler]

Well, that is in Norway.

I decided to not write about my country on Whiteblaze anymore, because this is fact a forum about the Appalachian trail, and it is mainly for Americans. I started a thread about the freedom to roam, and got some interesting answers, and thought I should end it there. But I could just not let this one slide. Personally I think these insane numbers are because we have the freedom to roam over here, and we don’t have to pay to use the Wilderness (I just got back from my last trip to the US paying 50 dollars to enter Yosemite and Death Valley). This may be something to think about:

Source (in Norwegian):
https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/ungdomm...let-1.13054610.

Please feel free to post here. The Appalachian Trail is for anyone who can find their way to it, citizen of the US or not, and is free to roam along its length. As are most all the long distance trails in America, even as they wend their way through National Parks, Forests, and Wilderness areas. Walking into privately owned land is a little different here, but as I understand it, even in Norway there are posted places you cannot just wander into. Livestock and other land uses can present a danger to people, and limited access is necessary.

The cost to go into National Parks in the US is pretty reasonable. Entry fees pay for infrastructure maintenance so you can come from half a world away and drive into them, maybe spend a few days, use restrooms, drink water, and perhaps have a few photos or two of some of the most rare scenery on the planet. There are Park passes you can get to reduce the one-off costs of going to them, however, even at 20 to 25 dollars a car its still a pretty good bargain considering what you are getting. As an aside, there are times during the year where entry into National Parks are free, though admittedly its only for a handful of days out of the year. You can also avoid paying by walking into the parks on connecting trails.

Something you should probably consider is the population living within a few hours drive of those parks dwarfs the population of the entire Country of Norway, with over 7 million just in the regional area. Expand that to four hours and you will easily double the population of Norway. Then consider people come from all over the world to see these parks, which adds to the wear and tear on roads and services the park provides. Someone has to pay for these, and while there is some contribution to the National Park Service from our national tax system, its small and requires some additional funding to ensure these wonderful places remain in good shape and accessible.

In percentages, I think Norway has most of North America beat in terms of 15 to 29 year olds hiking. In pure numbers however, there were 3.1 million visitors to Yosemite alone in 2014. if only 50% of those people walked a trail or two, it would surpass the numbers of young adults in Norway who hike. For some additional perspective, in 2015, 305 million people visited our national parks. If only 10% of those people hiked 2 - 5 miles, that would be about 6 times the population of Norway. So as you can imagine, these parks have a great deal of use and are a world wide attraction. This does not include the many State, County, and local parks that have miles of trail systems in them, which millions of people use throughout the year.

We sure welcome you to come and walk on our trails and see all there is to see here. There are many ways to take advantage of our park system, some of them are cost free.

[Oslohiker]

Personally, I think its because people here have a lot more choices of things to do with leisure time. Yes, most of it mindless crap, but it fits most people. People do whats close to them.

Where I live, most people spend all their free time socializing (tailgating)with others around college and pro sports games schedules, fishing, hunting, following kids around that play competitive travel sports, etc. Family vacations are to beach, disneyland, cruises, ski trips, etc.

No time or desire to go walk. And usually in such poor shape its a nonstarter anyway.

GSMNP is the most visited national park. Most visitors dont even venture into backcountry, .........and the ridiculous spectacle of Gatlinburg is a bigger attraction than the park.

Its got nothing to do with money or fees charged. Hiking is dirt cheap, its the cheapest vacation I know of. Its got to do with desires. People would rather do other options, (and Im glad.)

Except Disneyland, what more choices do you have that we don't have? We also follow pro sports (mainly soccer, but also a lot of winter sports).

I also think that most Americans can stomach the entrance fees, but I still think it is a psychological hurdle. Also that you have to know where it is legal and not legal to hike is another hurdle. In Norway we just find a mountain top on a map and decide to walk up there. Find a parking space and walk from the car, and we don't have to know who owns the ground. That is freedom (for us), and people want to experience it.

[Oslohiker]

Please feel free to post here. The Appalachian Trail is for anyone who can find their way to it, citizen of the US or not, and is free to roam along its length. As are most all the long distance trails in America, even as they wend their way through National Parks, Forests, and Wilderness areas. Walking into privately owned land is a little different here, but as I understand it, even in Norway there are posted places you cannot just wander into. Livestock and other land uses can present a danger to people, and limited access is necessary.

The cost to go into National Parks in the US is pretty reasonable. Entry fees pay for infrastructure maintenance so you can come from half a world away and drive into them, maybe spend a few days, use restrooms, drink water, and perhaps have a few photos or two of some of the most rare scenery on the planet. There are Park passes you can get to reduce the one-off costs of going to them, however, even at 20 to 25 dollars a car its still a pretty good bargain considering what you are getting. As an aside, there are times during the year where entry into National Parks are free, though admittedly its only for a handful of days out of the year. You can also avoid paying by walking into the parks on connecting trails.

Something you should probably consider is the population living within a few hours drive of those parks dwarfs the population of the entire Country of Norway, with over 7 million just in the regional area. Expand that to four hours and you will easily double the population of Norway. Then consider people come from all over the world to see these parks, which adds to the wear and tear on roads and services the park provides. Someone has to pay for these, and while there is some contribution to the National Park Service from our national tax system, its small and requires some additional funding to ensure these wonderful places remain in good shape and accessible.

In percentages, I think Norway has most of North America beat in terms of 15 to 29 year olds hiking. In pure numbers however, there were 3.1 million visitors to Yosemite alone in 2014. if only 50% of those people walked a trail or two, it would surpass the numbers of young adults in Norway who hike. For some additional perspective, in 2015, 305 million people visited our national parks. If only 10% of those people hiked 2 - 5 miles, that would be about 6 times the population of Norway. So as you can imagine, these parks have a great deal of use and are a world wide attraction. This does not include the many State, County, and local parks that have miles of trail systems in them, which millions of people use throughout the year.

We sure welcome you to come and walk on our trails and see all there is to see here. There are many ways to take advantage of our park system, some of them are cost free.

Yes, we are few... less than the city of Houston. But in US there are enough wilderness to go around for even the large metro areas. For example, for Los Angeles Santa Monica mountains could absorb a lot more use than today. And it is not a long drive to Big bear and other surrounding areas. It does not have to be a National park (or pay a fee). Hiking and spending time in the wilderness is really a good thing, and the Norwegian youth understand it. USA have in fact more wilderness per person than we do, despite our low population. The us is vast. The problem with the Norwegian youth is that they are starting to become a little bit to "good". They drink less alcohol and read more books than ever, too. Too few rebellions are not good either.

[MuddyWaters]

Except Disneyland, what more choices do you have that we don't have? We also follow pro sports (mainly soccer, but also a lot of winter sports).

I also think that most Americans can stomach the entrance fees, but I still think it is a psychological hurdle. Also that you have to know where it is legal and not legal to hike is another hurdle. In Norway we just find a mountain top on a map and decide to walk up there. Find a parking space and walk from the car, and we don't have to know who owns the ground. That is freedom (for us), and people want to experience it.

People do whats close to them
The US is a lot bigger than norway and very diverse geographically.

A much higher percent of young people that live in Boulder, Co, or Bend, Or will hike, than live in Houston ,Tx. Areas near mountains have a higher % people participating in that type recreation. Figure out why. People do whsts close to them.


People dont want to walk in flat woods, or across plains, or swamps. Theres nothing to see that they arent familiar with. Weather is also oppressively hot and humid much of year in some areas.

They want more interesting terrain, mountains, canyons, etc

[Hikingjim]

Nothing to do with fees.
In Canada it is MUCH more expensive overall, especially considering some of the places that charge fees aren't the least bit crowded or easily accesible.
Trails like the AT are free, and many state parks allow you to camp and enter for much cheaper than here.

It's to do with culture and what's in the area. In British Columbia people are much more active outdoors than most of the other provinces. Why? Because it's beautiful there, because of the culture, etc. The fees are not cheap there!

[DuneElliot]

You don't pay to use the Wilderness but you do have to pay for National Parks (Yosemite and Death Valley). These are not Wilderness areas, they are managed systems.

[FreeGoldRush]

Well, that is in Norway.

I decided to not write about my country on Whiteblaze anymore, because this is fact a forum about the Appalachian trail, and it is mainly for Americans. I started a thread about the freedom to roam, and got some interesting answers, and thought I should end it there. But I could just not let this one slide. Personally I think these insane numbers are because we have the freedom to roam over here, and we don’t have to pay to use the Wilderness (I just got back from my last trip to the US paying 50 dollars to enter Yosemite and Death Valley). This may be something to think about:

Source (in Norwegian):
https://www.nrk.no/trondelag/ungdomm...let-1.13054610.

$50 is not what prevents people from spending their days walking for miles through the woods. It's not "freedom to roam" either. There are tens of thousands of freely roaming trails in the US that are spectacular.

People make choices on how to spend their time. You are clearly underestimating your own freedom to choose how to spend your own time. You don't hike because it's free. You hike because you want to.

[Secondmouse]

Please feel free to post here. The Appalachian Trail is for anyone who can find their way to it, citizen of the US or not, and is free to roam along its length. As are most all the long distance trails in America, even as they wend their way through National Parks, Forests, and Wilderness areas. Walking into privately owned land is a little different here, but as I understand it, even in Norway there are posted places you cannot just wander into. Livestock and other land uses can present a danger to people, and limited access is necessary.

The cost to go into National Parks in the US is pretty reasonable. Entry fees pay for infrastructure maintenance so you can come from half a world away and drive into them, maybe spend a few days, use restrooms, drink water, and perhaps have a few photos or two of some of the most rare scenery on the planet. There are Park passes you can get to reduce the one-off costs of going to them, however, even at 20 to 25 dollars a car its still a pretty good bargain considering what you are getting. As an aside, there are times during the year where entry into National Parks are free, though admittedly its only for a handful of days out of the year. You can also avoid paying by walking into the parks on connecting trails.

Something you should probably consider is the population living within a few hours drive of those parks dwarfs the population of the entire Country of Norway, with over 7 million just in the regional area. Expand that to four hours and you will easily double the population of Norway. Then consider people come from all over the world to see these parks, which adds to the wear and tear on roads and services the park provides. Someone has to pay for these, and while there is some contribution to the National Park Service from our national tax system, its small and requires some additional funding to ensure these wonderful places remain in good shape and accessible.

In percentages, I think Norway has most of North America beat in terms of 15 to 29 year olds hiking. In pure numbers however, there were 3.1 million visitors to Yosemite alone in 2014. if only 50% of those people walked a trail or two, it would surpass the numbers of young adults in Norway who hike. For some additional perspective, in 2015, 305 million people visited our national parks. If only 10% of those people hiked 2 - 5 miles, that would be about 6 times the population of Norway. So as you can imagine, these parks have a great deal of use and are a world wide attraction. This does not include the many State, County, and local parks that have miles of trail systems in them, which millions of people use throughout the year.

We sure welcome you to come and walk on our trails and see all there is to see here. There are many ways to take advantage of our park system, some of them are cost free.

thank you for posting this...

[rickb]

People make choices on how to spend their time. You are clearly underestimating your own freedom to choose how to spend your own time. You don't hike because it's free. You hike because you want to.

For some years I lead short (1 to 2 hour) hikes the first Saturday of each month around my town's park, conservation and other public land. These were promoted by word of mouth and in the local paper, and typically drew 15 to 20 people.

One thing I learned very quickly was that a great many of the participants would never dare to explore the woods on their own or with their friends and family. I even had one adult woman who said she had never hiked/walked in the woods before.

This is in a suburb of Boston with a many places to hike for those who care to find them.

I believe that the outdoors is simply not a part of many people's lives in this country-- I am not surprised to learn that it could be differt in Norway.

[Oslohiker]

Nothing to do with fees.
In Canada it is MUCH more expensive overall, especially considering some of the places that charge fees aren't the least bit crowded or easily accesible.
Trails like the AT are free, and many state parks allow you to camp and enter for much cheaper than here.

It's to do with culture and what's in the area. In British Columbia people are much more active outdoors than most of the other provinces. Why? Because it's beautiful there, because of the culture, etc. The fees are not cheap there!

Ok, then there is a difference. In the article it says that they visit iconic places and some do some climbing and kayaking. Most of them therefor drive pretty far, because most of the iconic places are far from the most populated places (Oslo and its suburbs). I would guess most are 150km to 500km. Northen Norway is 16 to 24 hours of driving away. I still think 58% are very impressive. It's "everybody". The rest probably do pokomon go (lol). But I do agree that walking on flat land are mostly boring.

Trolltunga is very popular this year.
Julie-Rivenbark-on-Trolltunga.jpg

[Oslohiker]

Walking into privately owned land is a little different here, but as I understand it, even in Norway there are posted places you cannot just wander into. Livestock and other land uses can present a danger to people, and limited access is necessary.

No, you can walk where it is livestock.They are not conceived as dangerous (and they are also more or less everywhere). I am more sceptical to moose. The only place you can't walk is where they grow stuff, because stepping on it would destroy.

Norway has also world wide attractions (The fjords, North cape, Lofoten, to mention some). Extremely many Europeans (especially Germans) visit Norway each summer. But we can handle it, and it is all for free.

[xMagnolia]

Birmingham, Al, and Al in general, has done a wonderful job of making pockets of nature available to everyone. Ruffner Mt, Red Mountain, Moss Rock Preserve, and, if you walk or bike to it, the Botanical Gardens, offer wonderful day hike adventures that include various terrains, streams, and waterfalls for free. Bankhead National Forest and the Sipsey Wilderness, the Talladega Forest, Cheaha Wilderness, and Pinhoti trail are all well used. This doesn't even count the state parks, that do require a small fee to maintain the roads, facilities, and ranger services that everyone appreciates.

i know many other areas across the country, from small village governments to states have made land accessible, so, yes- you do need to know where to go, and respect private ownership, but there is more than enough to ensure that you are not "shackled by the constraints" . Even in some areas where cool natural features are on expanses of wild privately held land, the owners allow access, as long as users are respectful and LNT.


Charlotte

[xMagnolia]

By the way, to give you an idea of the size of the US, my daughter is moving from Chicago, IL, considered the "Midwest", Las Vegas, NV, to go to school. This is not even coast to coast. She left the glacial shores of the Great Lakes, crossed the fertile Mississippi River Valley, watched the plains of Nebraska turn brown as she drove into the dry flats leading into the Rockies of Colorado. Crossing the mountains into the red rock desert of Utah and Zion National Park, she finally made it to the desert of Nevada after four easy days of driving.

She's now within 4 hours of many National Parks, Forests, Wilderness and Conservation areas, and state other state and federal managed lands. Much closer than she ever was in Illinois. Location plays a big part in how often you go hiking.

Charlotte.

[Starchild]

I appreciated your threads Oslohiker and you explaining freedom to roam. The US is one of the most absurdly over regulated nations (much of this backhanded, such as liability, but that's effectively a regulation). The US is also one of the most overworked nations with minimal leisure time.

The greed of the US system is astounding, and perhaps unheard of in the history of 'free nations'

[BillyGr]

Ok, so where does the other 42% of each person go while 58% of that person is hiking?

[Oslohiker]

I love USA, although I may have given a different impression. I like the wilderness (especially the diversity), I like the cities, I like the food, and I like the people, and you have totally awesome beer. I have been there twice this year already. To Texas in week 8, and to Las Vegas and California a few weeks ago. I wrote my master thesis about venture capital in Silicon Valley, been a student at Cornell university, and worked as an intern in a startup in Silicon Valley (South San Francisco). I have been to the US about (approx.) 17 times.

Norway can in fact hold its own when it comes from distances. Driving form Lindesnes to Kirkenes takes about 27 hours the shortest route via Sweden. If you drive within the border, you have to drive a distance equal to from Los Angeles to New York, and it takes 37 hours, according to google maps. https://goo.gl/rLjtHk Northern Norway is my favourite wilderness area, btw.