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  1. #1

    Default Beef jerky, tuna in foil packets, salami – in bear country, sleeping with Opsak?

    I’m working on planning food for a solo northbound thruhike of the Long Trail in Vermont, late August until the end of September. Leaving in a few days. The southern half of the Long Trail coincides with the AT in Vermont, hence posting here.

    As part of my food strategy, which in general is keeping food low-odor and sleeping with my food inside a Loksak Opsak, is it acceptable to have items like beef jerky, tuna in foil packets, salami, cheese, etc? In other words, are they low-odor enough?

    So far I’ve been avoiding those items (except the cheese, which I will have a lot of). If I don’t take them, my protein will come from protein powder, cheese, nuts, whole grains, and freeze-dried beef/chicken in Mountain House meals.

    Have you done this exact thing, on the AT in Vermont? (That's the part I'm most concerned about, since it has much heavier foot traffic.) Under what circumstances would you consider it to be safe?

    Some context/background info:

    Vermont has one of the densest black bear populations in the country, approximately 1 bear every 3 square miles (about 6000 bears in the state). There are no brown bears or grizzlies. Human traffic is relatively high on the southern portion of the Long Trail, which coincides with the AT, and quite low on the northern portion. Hunting is legal. Bear attacks remain rare. Only one person, a hunter whose bullet essentially missed, has ever been killed by a bear in Vermont. However, bears have recently (within the last year) become a problem in the high traffic area near Camel’s Hump, which now has bear boxes and is on my route. As far as seasonal bear activity, according to VT Fish & Wildlife, “By late August, bears seek foods with the highest nutritional value. In an effort to store as much energy as possible, they will eat up to 24 hours a day.”

    I will be following Andrew Skurka’s advice for food protection in bear country. Specifically, I’m planning to:

    – eat dinner on the trail, then hike another 30-60 minutes and set up camp, eat a small snack and go to bed
    – camp away from established tent sites and shelters
    – carry low-odor items and foods
    – carry my food in Loksak Opsak odorproof bags, which sit inside a thinner BaseCamp odor barrier bag in my backpack

    (For those who know the full list, I’m not sure if I’ll be able to consistently burn my trash, start early or finish late, or plan my route to avoid bear food sources.)

    I’m planning to sleep with my food. No bear hang (except if I choose to stay in a shelter), no bear canister. The food will be inside a Loksak Opsak bag, which is inside the thinner BaseCamp odor barrier bag.

  2. #2
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    I've hiked the LT end-to-end. You're overthinking the bear thing. Vermont is not grizzly country. It is not the Shenandoah's. It is not the Smokies.

    Hang your food at night (PCT method recommended) and you'll be fine.
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  3. #3
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    I hang my food when there is not a bear box. I also use opsak which helps greatly with odor, but I would not assume they are perfect. in fact my brother got a small slit somehow on the last trip so I am sure that probably allowed odor out. I also bag my trash and hang it as it can have a lot of odor. As for the various foods, I think once you open them, they all have a lot odor. I can open beef jerky while on a trip and my wife notices the smell thoughout the car.

  4. #4

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    Marcovee, I'm specifically trying to avoid hanging a bear bag.

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    While you can't read the referenced article without a subscription, the implications from this web page is that there is no such thing as bags that can contain odors that will prevent a bear from finding it.

  6. #6
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    You ask "Under what circumstances would you consider it to be safe?" or "is it acceptible...". This is like asking "How long is a piece of string?" If you define "safe" as no risk, then you are never safe as there is always risk. Do you hike with a helmet to protect yourself from falling trees and asteroids? Why do we not consider this even though it could happen? To know if the risk is acceptable, we must know both what the level of risk is AND what level of risk you are comfortable with (neither of which we really know). Or we could consider the relative risks of your plan compared to that of other options. Every option has advantages and disadvantages but we tend to focus on the risks (disadvantages) rather than do an adequate cost-benefit analysis of each option. We must also identify which problem you are trying to avoid. Death by bear? Injury by bear? Bear stealing your food? Bear damaging your gear? The cost-benefit equation is different for each problem. What's your priority? The sleep with food/hang your food debate is old and contentious and I am not going to get into that analysis again. I would say that from what you wrote, it seems that you have done your homework and find the risk associated with your plan acceptable. I would also say that if you choose to sleep with your food, you are doing all the right things to minimize your risk. I have not backpacked in VT, although last week I did walk down Main Street in Hanover NH which is on the AT just a mile from VT (there were no bears). But I would hazard to guess that the vast majority of VT AT/LT hikers either 1)sleep with their food, 2) hang their food badly, 3) hang their food correctly. I would also guess that all of these groups include many cheese eaters and that none of these groups are being killed by bears in large numbers. I can state with great certainty that nobody can say if you will or will not be safe. (I can not predict the future. I can see the past quite clearly and the present when the weather is clear).

    BTW, I too use a BaseCamp odor barrier bag and feel that is a wise choice for bother sleepers and hangers. But given the bears' olfactory ability, I never assume anything is odor PROOF (regardless of marketing claims).

  7. #7

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    OK, I'm going to try to clarify:

    A determined bear can get the food in any bear hang. In a PCT hang, they can send a bear cub out on the branch to break it (if it's small enough) or go out on the branch themselves and chew through the rope (if the branch is big enough). In a two-tree hang, they can chew through the rope where it's attached to the tree trunk. In both cases, they can climb a tree and then launch themselves at the bear bag from above, which will break the rope anyhow.

    Given the many failure modes of a bear hang, it seems a key point is making the bear less interested in your food to begin with. You can't eliminate smells (especially since your hands will contaminate the outside of an Opsak) but you can reduce them. That's my goal here. The smell of a human is also a deterrent up to a point - the bear knows you're in your tent guarding your food, and hopefully it will decide it's not interested enough in your food to fight you for it. Camping away from the trail and away from water and bear food sources helps too, because a bear is less likely to have a habit of checking your specific campsite for food.

    There have been numerous reports of bears being extremely interested in meat products, for example carrying away packs from shelters and eating just the can of tuna or pack of jerky, leaving the rest untouched. Having these foods in a tent a night has similarly provoked bear attacks. But as far as I can tell, none of those incidents involved the use of an odorproof bag of any kind. Eliminating meat products entirely would be the safest route, but I'd like to have more data on meat products in odorproof bags in bear country.

    Finally, I have heard from many sources (including on this forum) that lots of AT thruhikers start out doing bear hangs every night, then decide it's not necessary (or too much hassle) and just sleep with their food, with or without odorproof bags, instead. How well does that strategy work in Vermont, which has lots of bears? Any incidents to report?

  8. #8

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    I like Andrew's suggestions.

    The reality in many areas is that you can't do a good PCT style hang. I just finished Section J of PCT in 6 days, and we were only able to PCT hang one night. We used a tree trunk stuck at an angle. The tree limbs would not work for hangs. We carried a lot of meat products including tuna packet trash, bacon, jerky, and landjaeger sausage...

    I noted that the PCT thru hikers who cruised in late made no efforts to do hangs.

    I take bear bagging and hanging more seriously in places with known bear problems, or heavily used camp sites.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by wurble View Post
    Marcovee, I'm specifically trying to avoid hanging a bear bag.
    why? don't kid yourself, bears are thought to have the best sense of smell of any animal on earth. A bear's sense of smell is 7 times better than a blood hound's. if you have food, any food, he'll detect it.

    do the safe thing, hang a bear bag down wind of your position and carry whatever you want..

  10. #10
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    Waaaaaaay to worried about black bears......do you sleep with a gun under your pillow at home? Don't sweat the bears...I've always slept with my food and never had a problem...actually just bought the odor barrier bags off amazon for my Co hike...ill make an attempt to hang out there but if I'm getting in to camp late it'll be my pillow....


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  11. #11

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    First off, camping away from designated sites is either a) not practical (in the case of the National Forest section) or b) not legal (which is the case for the rest of the LT).

    Many of the shelters (at least along the AT section) have bear boxes now. Use them.

    Finally, take prudent precautions but you don't have to go to extremes. Bear encounters in Vermont are very rare.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by saltysack View Post
    Waaaaaaay to worried about black bears......do you sleep with a gun under your pillow at home?


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    I sleep with a gun under my pillow at home.
    I also CC.
    But I have never carried on the/any trail and I sleep with my food.
    I consider black bears like big racoons. Actually I am more afraid of racoons. Nasty little buggers they are.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltysack View Post
    I've always slept with my food and never had a problem...
    Seems reasonable when hiking in areas with little bear activity or camping at infrequently used camp sites.

    Seems foolish (and in some locations ILLEGAL) when camping at designated site that bears are familiar with and frequent (such as in GSMNP).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by HooKooDooKu View Post
    Seems reasonable when hiking in areas with little bear activity or camping at infrequently used camp sites.

    Seems foolish (and in some locations ILLEGAL) when camping at designated site that bears are familiar with and frequent (such as in GSMNP).
    Yea good point...I try to avoid crowds and frequently used spots.....defeats the purpose of getting outside to me anyway. I'm obviously not saying to break any laws....another disclaimer is that I mainly hike with a dog....black bears down south are hunted with dogs so they tend to avoid them.


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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by swisscross View Post
    I sleep with a gun under my pillow at home.
    I also CC.
    But I have never carried on the/any trail and I sleep with my food.
    I consider black bears like big racoons. Actually I am more afraid of racoons. Nasty little buggers they are.
    I keep a Glock close by but have never taken on any trail either..


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  16. #16

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    Paraphrasing:

    I'm worried about bears
    So I'm gonna sleep with my food
    But that worries me
    What do I do?

  17. #17

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    I never saw anyone hang food on the LT section. It was sort of the line when no one worried about bears anymore.Most just hung in the shelter on critter hang or slept with it. In fact people not even staying in the shelter hung their food in the shelter. Never heard of any problems and never heard of any other hikers seeing a bear.

    I slept with food towards the end. I was typically dog tire and if I didn't see the perfect tree for the PCT hang I just threw the food back in my pack, put my sweaty clothes on the pack and put it by my feet in tent.

    Furthest North I saw a bear was Mass.


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  18. #18

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    In all the time I've spent on the LT, I've only seen a bear once and just because I caught some motion out the corner of my eye as it was racing down the hill away from me.

    Lets see, on that E2E hike I saw:
    the ass end of that one bear
    1 owl
    2 deer
    2 beavers
    and 1200 chipmunks.
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  19. #19
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    On North Manitou Island before you can get you backcountry permit you have to listen to the park ranger's micro bear (i.e. chipmunk) lecture. A PCT hang for chipmunks can be a lot lower.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuddyWaters View Post
    Paraphrasing:

    I'm worried about bears
    So I'm gonna sleep with my food
    But that worries me
    What do I do?

    Uh - snap that was awesome.... beat me to-it!
    Dogs are excellent judges of character, this fact goes a long way toward explaining why some people don't like being around them.

    Woo

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