My winter base weight is 13.24 using a hammock, 0 deg under quilt, 0 deg top quilt, and. hammock sock.
I am not young enough to know everything.
That's not a Klymit X-Lite according to their website. The X-Lite is an 3/4 ultra lite no insulation, and large cutouts.Originally Posted by Engine
Edit
Ok found it, its a hybrid model with collaboration between Massdrop and Klymit and sold on the Massdrop website https://www.massdrop.com/buy/24028.
Massdrop x Klymit ‘Static V Ultra Light but only got an R-value of 1.3.
Last edited by jjozgrunt; 09-26-2016 at 19:10.
"He was a wise man who invented beer." Plato
Yes, my mistake in labeling it. I originally purchased it for a SOBO hike, figuring at $49, it was worth trying. But I may very well replace it if the GG 1/8" pad doesn't add enough R-value to make it work. I am unable to find an R-value on the GG pad so I'll have to experiment.
“He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates
...I'm also considering a Thermarest Neoair Xlite short pad with the pack under the legs thing...so many decisions and such a limited budget.
Last edited by Engine; 09-27-2016 at 06:03.
“He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates
I bought my xtherm short @ Amazon for $75. It was a ripped package but new wear house deal. Just keep looking till a good deal comes up. You got time. I will never under pad,cold sleepless nights aren't fun.
Thom
Thx. Didn't get the specs either. I knew I was missing something.
I'm not exactly sure of the R value of GG's 1/8" thick CCF pad although I'm fairly sure they did used to spec it out at their site. The R value isn't all that for the 1/8" thick pad although I like it because it's easily rolled and then folded and can be added to/left out of a sleep system in a multi component sleep system. I've gone through three 1/8" thick CCF pads. One from GG and two from Lawson. I'd surmise it's in the same R value 0.75 vicinity of Lawson Outdoor Equipments 1/8 Insulite CCF pad giving you underneath R value insulation of 2.05. IMHO, with your projected start date, where in the country you are from, and the rest of sleep system specs that's not enough warmth from the ground.
Since you have a nice UL/light wt kit and are concerned about R values, wt, and amending warmth/underground insulation with a component based sleep system, including placing your empty pack under your feet or slipping your feet into your empty pack, as I am I'll share I've found March AT weather can be addressed more easily while also possibly saving wt but dropping the do re mi on a Neo Air XLite WOMENS version. This version has a R-value of 3.9 compared to the other unisex Neo Air XLites's versions of 3.2. The Women's length is 66" long too which is much preferable in cold conditions because it puts more of your body on a pad rather than say the Unisex Shortie versions or a shortie inflatable. A empty backpack adds not much insulation for your knees to the feet. The Women's NeoAir Xlite is 12 oz too so makes for a less complex system with greater warmth, overall higher total R Value than your system. What I like about your system though is that it is more of a component system so down the road further into your thru you can reduce components. What you might want to do is add something like an inexpensive very light wt SOL mylar type space blanket under neath for your start to reflect heat back to your system.
As described, great when I'm going with one of my lightest wt kits but it's reserved for warmer times. If you're starting in March as the OP is the sharp drop off in 3.2 R-Value where the Shortie ends with the empty pack underneath your feet to knees is distinctly noticeable unless you're a dwarf who can fit entirely on a Shortie....I'm also considering a Thermarest Neoair Xlite short pad with the pack under the legs thing...so many decisions and such a limited budget.
Dogwood,
Thanks for the well thought out info. I'm going to "re-gift" the Klymit for Christmas since it's still new in the box and go with the women's Neoair Xlite or a short Xtherm. I am a warm sleeper (from Northern Michigan originally) but I'm also not getting any younger and sleepless nights make for miserable days. I'll certainly consider the mylar space blanket idea as well. Especially for my wife who has a 10* quilt, the women's neoair, and the GG pad...but she's a COLD sleeper!
Nuknees - Sorry for hijacking the thread!
Last edited by Engine; 09-27-2016 at 14:56.
“He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates
I browsed the Z-Packs site and come up with this wish list:
Solplex tent 15.5 oz $555
20* bag/quilt 16.7 oz $375
cubin rain jacket 5.5 oz $275
ArcZ blast 24 oz $350
fiber poles $180
Down Jacket 7.5 oz $149
A 4.6 pound starting base, for just $1900. Throw in some clothes and a stove, you top out at about 10 pounds. oops, missed the pad. Add a pound and a couple 100 bucks.
For $60 you can get the Massdrop X Klymit insulated with an R-value of 4.4 at 16.9oz. Just throwing it out there, they have already ran the drop twice and I imagine it may run a third as they have 243 requests to run it again.
AT: 695.7 mi
Benton MacKaye Trail '20
Pinhoti Trail '18-19'
@leonidasonthetrail https://www.youtube.com/c/LeonidasontheTrail
Yes that is correct. My hiking attire is a pair of thin liner socks, tough socks, swim trunks with the attached net underwear, a technical t-shirt and head buff. I like to wipe down as best I can with a bandana at end of day and have something not so rank to change into which I also sleep in so my bag doesn't end up smelling like 'it' just hiked 20! This 'camp attire' is a thin pair of tech pants (which I'll use if I run into an unexpected cold weather) a long sleeve tech shirt...and that's it.
LOL....my wishlist....Powerball winner!
FYI: A short XTherm is not currently offered by Thermarest.
Also, since the Xlite and Xtherm mattresses work with IR reflective material, like space blankets, adding a space blanket under them doesn't offer much, if any, advantage in warmth. A space blanket under your legs and feet, when using a short Xlite might be useful, although, if you need that extra warmth for your lower body, it might make more sense to get a regular length pad to start with and get the added comfort along with it.
I'm not lost. I'm exploring.
I went with the Xlite short and since I have the 1/8" GG pad, I can fold that up a few times and put it under my feet. I am a side sleeper who tucks his knees up quite a bit, so on a 47" pad only my feet and ankles really hang off anyway. The long pad doesn't really add much comfort due to my sleeping in that position 90% of the time.
“He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates
For what it's worth-
If you are traveling UL, and can do a 10-15 mile day from the start- one of the simplest UL tricks in the book is simply to walk a few more hours a day.
Point being- Average start is around april 1- early around march, late around may.
If you're walking a little more each day and fairly light- a five month trip is not that bad and can be quite good.
If you can start later, you skip the worst of spring (winter in the smokies).
Not be forced to take the average week or more worth of zero/neros that early starts take dealing with weather.
Not have to buy so much gear for a short window of your hike.
Not have to fight the crowds.
Not walk with spring for months- IE- you aren't walking north and constantly chasing spring weather and delaying your summer. If you start May 1st you're basically in the tail of spring- and chasing summer- then fall as you move north) so you have some better weather, better attitude, easier trail and you make more progress.
UL hikers in decent shape can also find a different issue- early start means early finish too. So you get the worst conditions in the smokies, the worst of blackfly season in new England, tough times in the whites, and flooded trail and bad hiking in Maine. A March to July trip sounds like the exact worst time to go NOBO to me, I'd rather try a winter hike. Months of cold rain... no thanks.
Hike smart- not hard.
If your pace seems to dictate some issues with a 5 month trip- then a flip-flop is what the smart hiker should do- not keep pushing up the start date. You can hike in the relatively kinder state of VA instead of trying to fight the tail end of winter while you build your trail legs.
If nothing else- ask a NOBO and a SOBO about hiking in Georgia and the Smokies. You will hear a vastly different tale told.
Even springer to Neels Gap... a week long trip for Nobo is a two day stroll for a Sobo...
So where does the time spent on an early start really go if you think about it?
Much like the flip flop, I wish more at ATC and here would advocate a "smart start" style hike for those with some experience, fitness, or appropriate gear to help spread things out for those who prefer a continuous NOBO trip to a flip flop. May, June, July, August, September is (for me) almost an ideal season to be in most areas on the trail.
No herd to wade through or fight with for services at springer, Spring flowers in smokies- beating the worst of the heat in Virginia, having summer back under the cool tree canopy of the mid atlantic states, letting the trails drying out before you reach Vermont and the worst of the bugs gone as you reach the north, and some hints of brilliant fall in the northwoods as you finish- sneaking in just before the weather truly turns cold for the winter.
So yar- it's quite possible to nobo with light shoulder season gear or even summer gear.
Heck- if you really want to be out- consider the FT, Pinhoti, Sheltowee, or BMT as a place to warm up your trail legs without thinning out your wallet too badly.
You could start in march and hike any or some of those and by the time you reach Springer you'll be in great shape and ready to travel smart and smooth.
Very well stated Bill, Exactly my plan for a 2017 NOBO hike is to start after the "bubble" and finish in about 5 months...
I am also a side sleeper. The 47" NeoAir is only 17" (and less) wide, after it is inflated.
I desperately wanted to love it. I loved the teeny 8 oz. I don't know if I thrash more than the average person, but I spent half of every night mostly off the pad. I tried to make it work for 30+ nights.
I eventually gave up and now sleep on a 77" extra long and extra wide NeoAir (even though I am only 5'2"). Wide pad is a full pound, but I shaved 8 oz from other things. Am super happy with it and I sleep on the pad all night long!
Of course, being this is hiking, your mileage will certainly vary.
Tent - you will thank me if you go the extra and get the Duplex. The extra room to get you and your gear into and spread out, for 5.5ozs is well worth it.
Quilt - My wife has the 30F from Zpacks and I have the EE 30F. She is always trying to steal mine, because of the pad attachment system. In the end I bought a set of straps off EE and attached it to the Zpacks quilt. EE are cheaper as well. Don't forget a down or synthetic hood to go with it.
Rain Jacket - Love the jacket and I have the pants as well as a wrap/skirt. Torn about taking pants or wrap for the start and will probably go pants.
Pack - I went the Arc Haul Zip in Dyneema only because I often have to carry 7 days food here so needed the larger size.
Poles - Get and use trekking poles instead.
Down Jacket - Couldn't find one on zpacks. I use one from http://borahgear.com/index.html 5.4oz, 1/4 zip and no hood. Use the hood from the quilt system.
"He was a wise man who invented beer." Plato
According to the website, the short is the same 20" inches in width as the regular. Every photo I see of the two models together seems to confirm this as well.
Neoair.png
“He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates
You are correct. Short and regular are the same width. They are both 20" deflated. Then you blow them up and they are 2.5" thick and only 17" at the widest.
Extra long starts at 25" wide and is 22-23" wide after you blow it up.
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