Food in the tent

[Lear]

Judging from the last post here some hikers have said they got tired of hanging a bear bag because of the hassle and decided to just sleep with their food. It's clear that sleeping with food probably means no open containers of tuna or beef jerky.

So if you have slept with food please share what precautions you take.

If you would never sleep with food post that too. But apparently there is no unanimous protocol as far as what to do with food during sleep.

Finally, it sure would be nice if the rangers or whoever investigates bear activity after incidents would be transparent and share what happened. I believe there was at least one incident this year of a bear biting someone in a tent. I'm not aware of where or what official report may have been made.

[Sarcasm the elf]

The post below was stolen (with permission) from triple crowner "Jester" a couple of years ago, it's one of the better explanations I have read.

"Sleep with my food

I sleep with my food. There. I said it.
I’ve slept with my food in my tent while hiking in twenty-two different states, including ones that have Grizzlies. When legally required, I’ve used bear canisters (Kings Canyon, Yosemite) and hung food (Yellowstone). I’ve used bear boxes when they’ve been provided. But otherwise, I sleep with my food. And so do a lot of other people.


Why? Simply put, I believe it to be the best strategy for protecting bears.
This statement is probably viewed incredulously by people who have been told over and over again by official agencies that sleeping with your food is a terrible idea, and that people who do it are lazy, irresponsible, and part of the problem. But stick with me, and I’ll explain my line of thinking.


I believe that one of the reasons that official sites post the proper hanging of food as a best practice doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with the efficacy of hanging food as a deterrent versus other methods of food storage. I think it has more to do with the safety of the hiker, and the potential liability involved in the event of an attack rather than the result of any studies.


Which is to say, keeping your food in your tent could be 1,000 times more likely to prevent a bear from getting your food, and authorities would still never suggest it due to the relative potential bad outcome should a bear invade a tent, regardless of how unlikely that might be statistically. So if sleeping with your food decreases the chances of a bear getting it by a great margin, but increases only slightly the chance of you having an encounter with a bear, it won’t be recommended.


I have often thought that hanging food isn’t necessarily about keeping food away from bears, but rather keeping bears away from people while they attempt to get people’s food. The argument would say something to the effect of, “well, the bear got my food, but at least I’m okay.” People who hang food aren’t terrified that a bear might get their food if they slept with it, but rather of what a bear might do to them while it was getting their food if they slept with it.


Much of what we do regarding bears and food is, as with water treatment, faith-based. If you hang food with success you are convinced that hanging food is why a bear didn’t get your food, whether there is a bear in the area or not. If you sleep with your food, and are never attacked, you believe that sleeping with your food is a successful strategy. When a bear does get food that is hung, the assumption on the part of those who hang food is that the food was improperly hung. Why? Because they have faith that a bear cannot get to properly hung food -- even though there are bears that have proven that they can learn to defeat just about any unattended system of protecting food (including bear canisters).


As for bears invading tents, it’s incredibly rare, despite the fact that at some point in a trip everything you own probably smells like food. On the very rare occasions that it does happen the first question anyone asks is, “did the hiker have food in their tent?” Why? Because people like to find a cause that tells then that they are relatively safe from this kind of thing, so that they can tell themselves that they don’t have to be afraid. “He had food in his tent and was attacked, I do not have food in my tent and therefore won’t be attacked.” But even if you don’t have food in your tent, you still probably smell like food. You’ve spilled it on your clothing, you’ve stored it (and trash) in your backpack, you’ve got some on your hands, your beard, your mouth. It’s not like you’re taking a shower every day. Putting all “smellables” in a bag doesn’t mean your tent and its contents don’t smell like food. Ultimately, actually having food in your tent might not make it smell any more like food than not having it in your tent.


But there’s not much you can do about that, right? So you do what you can to minimize bad encounters. And if your food doesn’t get taken and you remain unharmed, then whatever you’ve done worked (at least in your mind). Even if there were never any bears near you.


Are people who sleep with their food irresponsible and lazy? Undoubtedly some are. And then there are others who believe that it’s a better way of dealing with food. Do I have any statistical evidence to back up my belief that bears recognize possession as ownership, and that they are more likely to go after hung, non-attended food rather than expend the energy to attack another animal to take its food? Nope. But then again, people who believe hanging is the best strategy don’t have any statistical analysis to back up their belief, either. Anecdotally, I can look at the situation on the Appalachian Trail in Georgia and note that the bear or bears who get hikers’ food are getting it exclusively from bear hangs. Is the food improperly hung? Probably, but not necessarily. Does it occur to any of those hikers to sue the ATC or NPS or any other agency for suggesting that hanging food is the best method? Of course not.


On the other hand, you can imagine how quickly someone (or their family) would engage a lawyer if ATC suggested sleeping with food and a bear invaded a tent, regardless of how unlikely a scenario that might be, particularly if that hiker sustained injuries or was killed.


I sleep with my food. Should you? That’s really up to you. If having food in your tent is going to keep you awake all night, probably not. In fact, I’ve hung food when I’ve been around other hikers who were so worried about me not doing so that it seemed a kindness to hang my food so they could get some sleep.
I’m not suggesting what anyone else should or shouldn’t do. I’m explaining my reasoning for what I do, and the fact that it isn’t as lazy or irresponsibe as you might have been led to believe.


I sleep with my food because I think it’s safer for the bears."

[Another Kevin]

Jester's post that Elf reused is near the mark.

To be sure, I comply with the law, so where the law says I have to hang, I hang, and where the law says I have to use a bear can, I hump a bear can.

Otherwise, the important rule is: NEVER LEAVE FOOD UNATTENDED, EVEN FOR A FEW MINUTES. Always have it, if not within reach, within a few steps. Otherwise, have it securely stored. Hang it, have it in a canister, or have it in a bear box at a campsite.

'Never leave food unattended' means NEVER. If you're sleeping with food, when you get up to pee in the night, bring it with you. If you decide to strip down and plunge into that inviting lake, hang your pack, or at least your bear bag, or set out your canister. You don't want to come back from your swim or from the process of elimination to find the local wildlife rifling your pack, and they can move in amazingly fast.

I've seen bears, raccoons, porkies and turkey vultures raiding picnic tables at campgrounds while the picnickers were out tossing a frisbee or something. And I've heard numerous tales of woe from Adirondack travelers. (A common style in the Adirondacks is to hike in with heavy gear, make a base camp somewhere, and bag a peak or three with a light day pack. That's asking for trouble, which is why canisters are now required of all campers there.)

Unless I'm arriving at a campsite in darkness, hanging my food is usually less hassle than having to take my food, toiletries and garbage with me whenever I have to leave the campsite. But if I'm night-hiking in, and setting up a good hang is going to be a challenge, sometimes my food is my pillow instead.

[PaulWorksHard]

If you would never sleep with food post that too. But apparently there is no unanimous protocol as far as what to do with food during sleep.

The parks service, ATC, and other organizations have the same protocol - hang your food, always. They are unanimous in this. People disagree with this protocol. If the standard for unanimous is that every person agrees, then there are no unanimous protocols for anything at all.

, it sure would be nice if the rangers or whoever investigates bear activity after incidents would be transparent and share what happened. I believe there was at least one incident this year of a bear biting someone in a tent. I'm not aware of where or what official report may have been made.

Someone was bit at Spence field shelter in the smokies around May 10. It was reported in the paper and they were completely transparent about it at GSMNP. You do have to use Google to find this. https://peachpeak.wordpress.com/2016...rst-blog-post/ . Not noted in this first person account is that the rangers afterward claimed it was because Eric used a cocoa butter sunscreen lotion which attracted the bear.

I don't remember exactly where, but within 50 miles north of Daleville on the AT I came across a ridge runner who told me that at a nearby shelter bears were actually chasing people out of their tents. (Regardless of if they hung their food). I recall he told me they found and killed that bear.

I think that in GSMNP and a few other select places where bears unfortunately think PEOPLE = FOOD, it may not matter what you do. It's a crapshoot and most people are lucky. Occasionally someone is not. See article above. Personally, I always hang my food, preferably 20-25 feet high. But, I have hung my food on occasion where a bear would trip over my tent getting to the bag. I have seen bears climb trees very easily when motivated to do so.

[Lone Wolf]

Judging from the last post here some hikers have said they got tired of hanging a bear bag because of the hassle and decided to just sleep with their food. It's clear that sleeping with food probably means no open containers of tuna or beef jerky.

So if you have slept with food please share what precautions you take.

If you would never sleep with food post that too. But apparently there is no unanimous protocol as far as what to do with food during sleep.

Finally, it sure would be nice if the rangers or whoever investigates bear activity after incidents would be transparent and share what happened. I believe there was at least one incident this year of a bear biting someone in a tent. I'm not aware of where or what official report may have been made.

i always sleep with my chow. i've only hung food in shelters to protect from mice

[egilbe]

i always sleep with my chow. i've only hung food in shelters to protect from mice

I found that mice chewing holes in my tent was worse than mice chewing holes in my food bag. I use an Ursack now. Its hung outside. Having a mouse scurry up my back to get to the food bag at my head was enough to decide that having my food and sleep disrupted was not worth the crums they leave behind.

bears? What bears?

[cmoulder]

I had not read those comments from Jester before, but I have for a long time felt similarly and have also kept food in my tent because I had many problems with chipmunks, flying squirrels and pine martens in the Catskills and the Daks. I do try to minimize the 'olfactory footprint' (smellprint? lol) by using bags with far less permeability than ziplocs, such as used cereal bags, 'gourmet' chip snack bags, beef jerky bags, etc.

The last animal that tried to get food from me was, in fact, the little bastard pictured below — I chased him and got it back... big bag of gorp... and he came back to try again! Opalescent Creek in the Daks, IIRC.

pine marten.jpg

[Another Kevin]

The last animal that tried to get food from me was, in fact, the little bastard pictured below — I chased him and got it back... big bag of gorp... and he came back to try again! Opalescent Creek in the Daks, IIRC.

The worst part of hiking in Eastern High Peaks is the wildlife, who are accustomed to raiding base camps. That's why you need a canister there.

[Slosteppin]

I do two things to keep bars away from myself and my food. First, I always hang my food at least 100 feet from my tent or hammock. Second, I try NOT to camp in campgrounds or where others often camp. These habits come from early reading, observation and talking with campground managers and hosts. I have read and observed that bears go back to places where they found food - such as bird feeders in my backyard. I've also had campground managers tell me that bears frequently check their dumpsters.
The first thing I do when setting up camp is hang my food high in a tree.

[Sarcasm the elf]

The worst part of hiking in Eastern High Peaks is the wildlife, who are accustomed to raiding base camps. That's why you need a canister there.

Trailgroove has a bear canister giveaway right now that I signed up for. Sadly it is for a bear vault and the only place I would need a canister is the high peaks region. Oh well...

[Sarcasm the elf]

i always sleep with my chow. i've only hung food in shelters to protect from mice

You've been in shelters?

I had my first ever animal damage this year in VT. Slept in a shelter against my better judgement, forgot to unzip all my pack pocket and check them. Turns out I had a Payday wrapped in my hip belt pocket that I had forgotten about. A mouse chewed it's way into it within an hour of me falling asleep.

On a side note, did you know that if you back-fist a hanging pack while half asleep the force can send a mouse flying about 20 feet? It wasn't totally intentional, since I only wanted to scare the mouse into running away, but man did it work.

[Greenlight]

I'm in Indiana and I grew up in Indiana. I was in Scouting from ages 11 to 18 and went on many camping trips and hikes. I've also hiked and camped some recently. When I was a kid, we just stored our food in our packs which were stored in a gear pile, and we didn't have to worry much about anything but raccoons. We'd almost always keep a fire going and appoint a "fire guard" - it was just fun so we did it, so the Scout who stayed awake and tended the fire kept critters at bay. As an adult, I've never kept food in my tent (hammock). On the AT, it went up a bear line.

[Redbud]

I worked as a ranger in the South San Juan Mtns in CO for 4 summers. I never once hung my food. I slept in a Megamid (like a tarp tent with no floor), and when the weather was lousy, I cooked in it. I had to slap away the occasional rodent at night, but the only time I ever had a bear bother me was when I left an unwashed cooking pot on a boulder 30 feet or so from the tent, and even then, it only went for the pot. I do hang my food in Grizzly country in Montana, and cook far from my tent, but I have no evidence that I am any the safer for it. The cases we have had here of bears dragging people from tents and mauling them don't appear to be linked to food, except one case a couple of years ago where some car campers set up in the dark at a site which, they discovered the next morning, was littered with food and garbage. In that case a black bear chomped a guy's arm. But in general, I agree that by day 3 or 4 of a hike, you, your clothes and your pack all stink of food as much as your food bag does.

[cmoulder]

The worst part of hiking in Eastern High Peaks is the wildlife, who are accustomed to raiding base camps. That's why you need a canister there.

They're not required after Nov 30, but a bear can is clearly a good idea year 'round there for other critters.

PS, the pine marten pictured above got the gorp from my pack during a dayhike by unzipping a side accessory pocket.

[kolokolo]

Judging from the last post here some hikers have said they got tired of hanging a bear bag because of the hassle and decided to just sleep with their food. It's clear that sleeping with food probably means no open containers of tuna or beef jerky.

So if you have slept with food please share what precautions you take.

If you would never sleep with food post that too. But apparently there is no unanimous protocol as far as what to do with food during sleep.

Finally, it sure would be nice if the rangers or whoever investigates bear activity after incidents would be transparent and share what happened. I believe there was at least one incident this year of a bear biting someone in a tent. I'm not aware of where or what official report may have been made.

To the OP: Report on bear attack last Spring at Spence Field Shelter:http://www.wbir.com/mb/news/local/ap...ack1/216960737



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[MuddyWaters]

So if you have slept with food please share what precautions you take.

Well, if there was a known problem bear in area I might think twice.

I place it in my shelter so it's not reachable by an larcenous ursine without encountering me. I e. Don't stick it under vestibule, keep it next to you away from tent opening.

Bears will go after food if they think they can get it without encountering you. Even a few feet away.

[jimmyjam]

Just met a guy in the Smokys a few days ago who had a bear smash his tent while he was in it. He said it would be the last time he kept food in his tent.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Just met a guy in the Smokys a few days ago who had a bear smash his tent while he was in it. He said it would be the last time he kept food in his tent.

I'm all for sleeping with my food in areas that don't have bear problems, but why the heck would you do it in or near the smokies?

[MuddyWaters]

I'm all for sleeping with my food in areas that don't have bear problems, but why the heck would you do it in or near the smokies?

National parks have most of the problem bears.

[Another Kevin]

They're not required after Nov 30, but a bear can is clearly a good idea year 'round there for other critters.

PS, the pine marten pictured above got the gorp from my pack during a dayhike by unzipping a side accessory pocket.

Great picture, by the way! I envy you the sighting. Martens (and other mustelids, such as mink and fishers) are usually pretty shy creatures.