To Urs or not to Urs, that is the question?

[Puddlefish]

Even if you tie it to a tree, once the bear grinds down your food into a saliva coated pulp, you still don't have food, and the bear got a delicious chew toy that they're going to associate with humans.

Sure, use it in a non bear designated area, or hang it when you're below the treeline. It will still be useful for smaller animals. It seems like all kinds of a bad idea to use it instead of a canister in a designated area.

[Dogwood]

Educated guess: The food smells and tastes will be remembered not the human "plate" the food was served on.
Wayne


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I'll question that. At least in some areas, most likely bears have associated plates and cookware with food although variations in bear associations and behavior occurs regionally. I've seen black and brown bears rummaging through human trash that contained paper and styrofoam plates, paper and plastic cups, paper and plastic bags, etc and they definitely attack those items because they contained remnants of food and food odors. Then, the bear's memory associates these items with easily obtained food and results in like behavior in the future regardless if food or food odors are present. I've seen them do the same with tents(but to a lesser degree) and food/beverage coolers. I've witnessed quite a few coolers attacked by bears. Associations are made. Then, tents, coolers, and food plates, even unused ones still in the original unopened packaging, are investigated/targeted by bears, at least in some areas, because I've witnessed them do it. Perhaps, what I was witnessing is related to food odors or particles on unused plates or on the outside of the unopened packaging that contained the plates to some extent but it can also occur through learned associations from past experiences. Same has happened at the well used AT Lean-Tos in GSMNP and elsewhere on the AT and at well used campgrounds or campsites. It's not just present food odors or present human behavior these bears are attracted by but learned attractions to through associations that almost always can be traced back to some human behavior.

So when human centric people blame bears for problems related to human food know it's human behavior in the past and present that is more likely you should be blaming and addressing. And, MOST IMPORTANTLY, should give the conscientious backpacker room for pause concerning the impact of their own behavior. NO ONE HIKES IN A BUBBLE. Every action we take has far reaching often unknown consequences beyond immediately impacting the individual.

I strongly suspect some bears have made associations with fishermen, fishing gear, and clothing worn by fishermen with food. They will investigate a fisherman for fish even though the fisherman may not have caught any fish. In some areas bears have made curious associations with cars and campers since they often contain food inside. I witnessed three black bears rip apart a locked convertible in Yosemite Valley to get at the food left inside. And, I strongly suspect some bears have made food associations that have become enforced with backpacks as evidenced by the stealthing away and attacking of backpacks! I suspect if these bears associated to these behaviors and goods were given a newly erected tent, new unused cooler, empty unused backpack, unopened stack of plates, or new sterile from food and food odors cookware they would investigated be targeted for food despite food odors not being present. This is what has happened in some areas now requiring canisters, locked bear boxes, etc. and bears associating a bag hanging in tree, even if they cord and bag has never been used for food and is unused new, worth curiously checking out for food.

I see it as a given. Bears are opportunistic omnivores and can be attracted by human behavior and goods that they associate with food without there being food or food odors present.

In some areas whitetail deer have learned to look up for danger when historically they didn't recognize danger coming from above making these wise deer, usually old bucks, harder to hunt. It's a learned association, evolution, coming into play. And, these deer further influence other deer to occasionally look up.

This is what has happen with Yosemite NP black bears.

[Venchka]

"Plate" in my example and the original example referred to the handler's face.
I would also question the learned traits of captive raised cubs. They may not have acquired a fear of humans.
I'm just trying to determine if I possess the Cajones to venture into the Thorofare by myself. I don't think so. Anyone up for an adventure?
Wayne


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[Dogwood]

"Plate" in my example and the original example referred to the handler's face.
I would also question the learned traits of captive raised cubs. They may not have acquired a fear of humans.
I'm just trying to determine if I possess the Cajones to venture into the Thorofare by myself. I don't think so. Anyone up for an adventure?
Wayne


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Uhh, yeah I got that. Bringing it forward are those bears that have been accustomed to lick people's faces going to attempt to do it upon release? Or will the behavior not be enforced enough or the bear's memory not be so long term?

Plate Face could be someone's trail name that experiences this.

[MuddyWaters]

I was watching a news show on reintroducing orphan black bear cubs to the wild. The biologist was eating native food the bear mother would eat. The cubs would smell his mouth, lick his face, and in that way, learn what was good to eat. Bears learn thar human food can be good to eat, but they also learn to equate humans with danger.

If a bear wanted your food, he could smell it and come running from miles away. Most bears never learn that association, thankfully.

Typically, to sucessfully rescue bears, all human contact is avoided using special ways to feed. The appalachian bear rescue center specializes in this.

[Dogwood]

Typically, to sucessfully rescue bears, all human contact is avoided using special ways to feed. The appalachian bear rescue center specializes in this.

That's what I thought too. Limiting human contact and dependency has always been key according to my knowledge.

Same with rescuing birds or foxes or deer or dolphins, whales,....that are intended to be released back into their native environments.

[poolskaterx]

Yes, I would still hang the critter bag.

I don't know... the more I think about it I feel the savings of 2.5 ounces (can't believe I am posting this) is probably not worth the savings that the extra amount of protection I get from the heavier duty style bag.

I just don't think I would trust my food, even properly hung, from the raccoons or other little critters that are such nimble jumpers and climbers in just a cuben fiber bag. Maybe I am just paranoid?

[poolskaterx]

Do youlan on hanging the critter bag? If not, just get the Ursack Major. Rodents still cant chew through it, although it is funny watching them try.

Yes, I would still hang the critter bag.

I don't know... the more I think about it I feel the savings of 2.5 ounces (can't believe I am posting this) is probably not worth the savings that the extra amount of protection I get from the heavier duty style bag.

I just don't think I would trust my food, even properly hung, from the raccoons or other little critters that are such nimble jumpers and climbers in just a cuben fiber bag. Maybe I am just paranoid?

[Time Zone]

I have not witnessed hikers storing food 100 yards away in all my years of backpacking. Sounds like a good safety measure but I have never seen it in practice; even if hikers store like that wouldn't you think food smells would still be on their gear?

I sure do, esp. after cooking. And the food being far away, well, it gives them time to work on getting at it without being disturbed/detected/chased off, so they're more likely to successfully get it. I'm not sure it's the better option, but I really don't know how all these considerations balance out.

[Venchka]

Some information about bear country.
https://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvis...anner_2015.pdf
Wayne


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[Neemor]

If you tie it to your leg the bear won't be able to carry it off without your knowing.


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[left52side]

If you tie it to your leg the bear won't be able to carry it off without your knowing.

I actually just met someone on the SHT this year who was using an op sack set up,and I was curious with questions as I am A bear bag type fella and his reply was he used it as A pillow while sleeping.
Now I am as of yet to know if said fella was being sarcastic or serious but needless to say I kept my distance and camped away from him that night ...
Another fond memory of that thru hike was at camp setting up one night and hanging my bear bag when another sobo hiker asked me if I thought there were bears on the trail,when literally no kidding there were bear tracks everywhere ....
My response was I do not think them are pigeon tracks everywhere.
Still not sure he hung his bear bag that night.

[Neemor]

[QUOTE=left52side;2106332he used it as A pillow while sleeping.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, most people do that. I was determined not to become one but...alas.... in SoCal there are no trees the west coast bears seem to be more scared of people than the ones back east. With a few exceptions.
I was made fun of when I still diligently hung my food every night 1,600 miles in.

But I wore the "dayhiker" badge with honor

[left52side]

I was made fun of when I still diligently hung my food every night 1,600 miles in.

My theory and replies were I do it every night to keep in practice and to not get lazy even after A long day on the trail,because myself find that if I got ion the habit of not hanging it I would certainly continue to not hang it lol.
That is what I generally will stick to and my reasons for hanging ,
I do not know what approach I will take to in desert conditions or where there is no trees available but will have to wing it or stash it by someone else camp site .. OBV just kidding...

[poolskaterx]

I actually just met someone on the SHT this year who was using an op sack set up,and I was curious with questions as I am A bear bag type fella and his reply was he used it as A pillow while sleeping.
Now I am as of yet to know if said fella was being sarcastic or serious but needless to say I kept my distance and camped away from him that night ...
Another fond memory of that thru hike was at camp setting up one night and hanging my bear bag when another sobo hiker asked me if I thought there were bears on the trail,when literally no kidding there were bear tracks everywhere ....
My response was I do not think them are pigeon tracks everywhere.
Still not sure he hung his bear bag that night.

Just to clarify: I am using the OPsack AND hanging the bag. The OPsack weighs nothing and I figure the animals would go towards the stronger food smells, the more I can mask my food or make it difficult to get I figure the better off I will be.

I do like the discussion going on about this and thank everyone for their opinions and experience.

Oh, Neemor... let me know how your idea works out for you first; makes perfect sense ha,ha!

[jefals]

A bear...dont kid yourself. A bears nose is 5-7x better than a bloodhounds. Your not going to conceal anything from a bears nose. They find a mate by smell.....dozens of miles away.

I hope I never pack anything that smells as strong as a bear in heat! 😆

[FreeGoldRush]

1) Has anyone ever left an Opsack in the woods with food to see if animals take it?

2) Is there any evidence or experimenting that indicates bears are able to distinguish between our food and the food smells in our clothes and pack?

[poolskaterx]

1) Has anyone ever left an Opsack in the woods with food to see if animals take it?

2) Is there any evidence or experimenting that indicates bears are able to distinguish between our food and the food smells in our clothes and pack?

That would be interesting to find out. So hard to tell what animals are gonna do.