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Thread: Leave No Trace

  1. #1
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    Default Leave No Trace

    Hey everyone. I just wanted to start the discussion about Leave No Trace Principles for the 2017 thruhikers. As a 2016 Nobo, I quickly discovered how many people had never even heard of Leave No Trace, and this definitely plays a large role (aided by overcrowding), in the sour reputation the southern section gets during the springtime.
    I invite everyone to write another LNT principle below or ask any questions that you may have.

    Some important ones:
    Bury your poop (if not using a privy)
    Use the bathroom away from water sources.
    Don't kill anything living (plants too!)
    Take only pictures, leave only footprints.
    These are some basic guidelines, but there are many more things to be aware of whether tenting or hanmocking, while hanging bear bags, cleaning after dinner, etc.

  2. #2

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    Camp in established areas/sites (very low impact stealth camping is usually permitted however)
    do not create new fire pits/rings
    If making a fire, burn only dead and downed trees.
    "Pack it in Pack it out"
    If there is mud on the trail and dry areas adjacent to the trail, suck it up and trudge on through the mud

    Just a few off the top of my head!

  3. #3
    Registered User Oventoasted's Avatar
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    I think the hikers who do not know what the "Leave No Trace" practice is will jot be on forums like this. A lot of the hikers i came accross that were ignorant to it were either just being spontaneous to walk in the woods or just trying to follow a friend who didnt give them any advice.

    Most may just need to be enlightened to LNT while they are on the trail in a tactful and respectful manner.

  4. #4

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    [QUOTE=Oventoasted;2108291]I think the hikers who do not know what the "Leave No Trace" practice is will jot be on forums like this.
    [/QUOTE

    Sorry,IwasRespondingAndsuddenlyRealizedMySpaceBarD oesNotWorkInTheseForums??What'sUpWithThat?
    Alice: This is impossible.
    The Mad Hatter: Only if you believe it is.

  5. #5

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    Huh? Space bar doesnt work when responding with quotes? Weird.

    Anyway, how about hikers with dogs? LNT applies to fido too, last thing I want to step in at 5am is... yeah. Cigarette buts? Cans and bottles (and other not so flammable items) in fire rings?
    Alice: This is impossible.
    The Mad Hatter: Only if you believe it is.

  6. #6
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    I would like to state during my 2013 thru, and that was not my first exposure to LNT, I found the LNT info (shelters, privies, etc.) to be demeaning, insulting and belittling. Basically saying that I am the problem and the less I mess up, which I will, the less we need to clean up. I had a very bitter taste for LNT from that, as I was raised on the principal of land stewardship, basically we are stewards of the land for all that will follow, we have the power to make their trip more or less enjoyable by our actions.

    To me LNT is presented as rules and regulations and we are the problem and are tolerated.
    Land stewardship is be good to each other and nature and we are the solution and we are welcome.

    I teach both, LNT because it is the standard policy and land stewardship because it empowers people t make a real difference.

  7. #7
    Registered User Oventoasted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    I would like to state during my 2013 thru, and that was not my first exposure to LNT, I found the LNT info (shelters, privies, etc.) to be demeaning, insulting and belittling. Basically saying that I am the problem and the less I mess up, which I will, the less we need to clean up. I had a very bitter taste for LNT from that, as I was raised on the principal of land stewardship, basically we are stewards of the land for all that will follow, we have the power to make their trip more or less enjoyable by our actions.

    To me LNT is presented as rules and regulations and we are the problem and are tolerated.
    Land stewardship is be good to each other and nature and we are the solution and we are welcome.

    I teach both, LNT because it is the standard policy and land stewardship because it empowers people t make a real difference.
    +1 to this!

    Even with friends it hard to convey the LNT method without coming off a little pretentious or belittling like you said. Im always for a more empowering method because it is a lot more effective for others to get on board with. even though both have the same goal.

  8. #8

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    "The Three Tiered Training Structure

    The three-tiered structure of Leave No Trace training includes Master Educator Courses, Trainer Courses, and Awareness Workshops. Master Educator Courses represent the most advanced level of training, and after completion, people go on to become Leave No Trace Master Educators. The Master Educators, in turn, teach people the second level, the Trainer Course, upon completion of which people become Leave No Trace Trainers. The Master Educators and Trainers both, are then eligible to conduct our third level of training, called Awareness Workshops, which are designed for the general public to learn, practice and promote Leave No Trace."

    Yeah... I dont know WHO these people are, but they sure are masters at complicating something as simple as common sense as well as just plain (IMHO) bat sheet crazy!. I'm guessing there is a money trial to be followed.
    Alice: This is impossible.
    The Mad Hatter: Only if you believe it is.

  9. #9

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    "I'm guessing there is a money trial to be followed."

    *^ trail
    Alice: This is impossible.
    The Mad Hatter: Only if you believe it is.

  10. #10

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    Oy .........

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starchild View Post
    I would like to state during my 2013 thru, and that was not my first exposure to LNT, I found the LNT info (shelters, privies, etc.) to be demeaning, insulting and belittling. Basically saying that I am the problem and the less I mess up, which I will, the less we need to clean up. I had a very bitter taste for LNT from that,...

    To me LNT is presented as rules and regulations and we are the problem and are tolerated...
    I'm sorry to hear that is what you have chosen to take away from LNT Principles.

    LNT is not presented legalistically as rules or regulations intentionally or implicitly by those trained to teach it. LNT principles are best perceived as guidelines or principles to consider regarding our behavior rather than legislating any policy similar to how a law is legislated. LNT includes guidelines or principles that encourage ethical behavior that raises awareness of each human individual's recreational impact. I think we all can agree humans have impacts on the environment and to each other.

    The aims of both land stewardship and LNT principles empower people to make a real difference. The two are mutually compatible.

    The success story that both teach can perhaps best be described as that they encourage humans to think outside themselves perceiving a larger ecological whole. And, that they lead to less mindless human centric behavior.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gritty View Post
    "The Three Tiered Training Structure

    The three-tiered structure of Leave No Trace training includes Master Educator Courses, Trainer Courses, and Awareness Workshops. Master Educator Courses represent the most advanced level of training, and after completion, people go on to become Leave No Trace Master Educators. The Master Educators, in turn, teach people the second level, the Trainer Course, upon completion of which people become Leave No Trace Trainers. The Master Educators and Trainers both, are then eligible to conduct our third level of training, called Awareness Workshops, which are designed for the general public to learn, practice and promote Leave No Trace."

    Yeah... I dont know WHO these people are, but they sure are masters at complicating something as simple as common sense as well as just plain (IMHO) bat sheet crazy!. I'm guessing there is a money trial to be followed.
    last year there was a thread here asking people to visit a LNT facebook page...so I did, or I tried anyway, it was a private page not open to the public. When I inquired about this I it no response...that makes no sense to me, at all.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by rocketsocks View Post
    last year there was a thread here asking people to visit a LNT facebook page...so I did, or I tried anyway, it was a private page not open to the public. When I inquired about this I it no response...that makes no sense to me, at all.
    I got no response!

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gritty View Post
    "The Three Tiered Training Structure

    The three-tiered structure of Leave No Trace training includes Master Educator Courses, Trainer Courses, and Awareness Workshops. Master Educator Courses represent the most advanced level of training, and after completion, people go on to become Leave No Trace Master Educators. The Master Educators, in turn, teach people the second level, the Trainer Course, upon completion of which people become Leave No Trace Trainers. The Master Educators and Trainers both, are then eligible to conduct our third level of training, called Awareness Workshops, which are designed for the general public to learn, practice and promote Leave No Trace."

    Yeah... I dont know WHO these people are, but they sure are masters at complicating something as simple as common sense as well as just plain (IMHO) bat sheet crazy!. I'm guessing there is a money trial to be followed.
    What is common sense to you may not be so common or sensible to another. Look around you and look at your own actions. Countless examples demonstrate that even if people know what to do they don't always do whet they know they should be doing. LNT aims to educate and make people aware. Sometimes, people need to be reminded to do what they know what to do. That's also raising awareness. Just because we hear something that we know we should be doing that does not mean we always do it.

  15. #15

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    Full disclosure question Dogwood. Are you associated in any way with LNT.org, Leave No Trace non profit, or Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics?
    Alice: This is impossible.
    The Mad Hatter: Only if you believe it is.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gritty View Post
    Full disclosure question Dogwood. Are you associated in any way with LNT.org, Leave No Trace non profit, or Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics?
    Yes. Enforcing and promoting LNT principles have allowed me to live in a mountain retreat gated estate with my own stocked fishing pond, game reserve, and being chauffeur driven to every TH in a limousine.

    No official association Gritty. My current position on promoting LNT Principles arose out of concerns for human centric hike in a bubble self absorbed mentalities I was observing in abundance. It also arose out of concerns and hastily made conclusions similar to Starchilds and yours. I then researched LNT goals more deeply and personally spoke to many LNT Trainers to gain a better understanding of LNT and address my previous conclusions. It was I who had taken things out of context or mistakenly came to false conclusions because I had failed to understand LNT Principles and aims. I am considering joining the cult of LNT though to seek being a LNT Trainer. I do promote the concept behind the main goal of LNT despite the term Leave No Trace being an oxymoron from a practical perspective.

    Thank you so much for asking rather than assuming and allowing your consideration to clarify.

  17. #17

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    Thanks for the clarification. I cant wait to see LNT.org's 990 for 2016... Good luck with the preaching.
    Alice: This is impossible.
    The Mad Hatter: Only if you believe it is.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gritty View Post
    Thanks for the clarification. I cant wait to see LNT.org's 990 for 2016... Good luck with the preaching.
    If you act now responding to my limited time offer being one of the first 100 to call for two convenient easy payments of $18.95 I'll send you my ultra deluxe personally autographed faux gold leaf margin embossed compact UL in waterproof ink printed on waterproof paper a list of Thy Holy All That Is Divine 7 LNT Principles appropriate for enclosing in a UL cuben fiber wallet to carry with you always so the 7 Principles are always there to remind you what a good boy to be. AHHH MEN.

    HYOH
    PYOP Preach Your Own Pomposity. Like wise peace be with you as you do your own preaching.
    We all can live together as one big shiny peoples....joyously spreading the good word of LNT and filling our pockets.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    Yes. Enforcing and promoting LNT principles have allowed me to live in a mountain retreat gated estate with my own stocked fishing pond, game reserve, and being chauffeur driven to every TH in a limousine.

    No official association Gritty. My current position on promoting LNT Principles arose out of concerns for human centric hike in a bubble self absorbed mentalities I was observing in abundance. It also arose out of concerns and hastily made conclusions similar to Starchilds and yours. I then researched LNT goals more deeply and personally spoke to many LNT Trainers to gain a better understanding of LNT and address my previous conclusions. It was I who had taken things out of context or mistakenly came to false conclusions because I had failed to understand LNT Principles and aims. I am considering joining the cult of LNT though to seek being a LNT Trainer. I do promote the concept behind the main goal of LNT despite the term Leave No Trace being an oxymoron from a practical perspective.

    Thank you so much for asking rather than assuming and allowing your consideration to clarify.
    Enforcing?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwood View Post
    I'm sorry to hear that is what you have chosen to take away from LNT Principles. ...
    Hi Dogwood, I understand what you are saying and agree. What I was trying to relay in my post is LNT has an image problem with many new hikers. I was relaying how I was exposed to LNT during my AT thru.

    For newer hikers, just exposed to LNT on trail by posted literature and those who are more exposed to LNT willing to speak out (not any awareness classes), even though LNT is guidelines, it is viewed as rules - this is what they take away and are turned off by it.

    This is view is further enforced by other, more experienced hikers who know LNT, because they often state it as rules, and often in a 'holier than thou' accusatory manner, earning then the term 'LNT nazi's' and that LNT is a religion to them. These people do more to harm LNT image and would be better off keeping their mouth shut till they learn land stewardship and what it really means. It is working together, and not accusing, not shoving guidelines in someone's face as if it were rules in stone handing down by God.

    Finally I have heard it said that even the name LNT is a impossible standard to reach, we are going to leave some trace just because we are there, even if is footprints. So we are always behind, always a problem, and never shown to be a solution.

    Combining LNT with land stewardship shows the reason and origin of LNT and greatly helps hikers trained in both to relay LNT in a much more positive way, since the underlying principles of LNT are placed as primary and original (predating LNT), and places LNT correctly as a guideline, and the heart is the origin. It also helps when a situation comes up beyond the guidelines for LNT.

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