Flip Flop

[Red Sky]

Hi everyone, new to WhiteBlaze.net and hoping to get some information on hiking the AT before I actually get out there this spring. I'm planning on trying a flip-flop, Harpers Ferry to Maine, then Harper's to Springer. Looking at starting last week in April after the Flip Flop Festival. Couple of specific questions first. Has anyone here done this type of hike, and what did you think of it? Was the weather really that much better starting in WV in April? I'm also interested in the trail conditions in VT and NH in June-July time frame. Any other suggestions or thoughts on the subject would be helpful. Thanks!

[jimmyjam]

I did it last year, but I hurt my foot and had to end my hike at Killington VT. Weather was great. A few hot days a few cool nights. Mostly perfect hiking weather. Vermont was not too muddy. Some here and there. Once your feet get wet and muddy you wont care. I loved Vermont and Massachusetts and would hike those states again.

[ARambler]

Yes, there is a lot of cold wet weather in Feb, Mar. and Apr, and also a lot of great spring days.
If you are a relatively average (or above) hiker, and want to avoid bugs in VT, NH and ME, you could start further south, e.g. Marion, VA/ Partnership shelter in mid April. I'm not sure it is necessary to fine tune this much.
I have only flip flopped once but it will likely be my next choice.
Bring Moonpies.

[Red Sky]

Yes, there is a lot of cold wet weather in Feb, Mar. and Apr, and also a lot of great spring days.
If you are a relatively average (or above) hiker, and want to avoid bugs in VT, NH and ME, you could start further south, e.g. Marion, VA/ Partnership shelter in mid April. I'm not sure it is necessary to fine tune this much.
I have only flip flopped once but it will likely be my next choice.
Bring Moonpies.

Great info, thanks! And yes, I can bring Moon Pies. They are really good if you microwave them for about 15 seconds. Unfortunately, I won't have room for the MW in my pack.

[dudeijuststarted]

I did an alternative thru cut into more than 2 sections, which gave me an "alternative" look at the trail in different seasons. If I did it again and were adamant about only two sections, I'd hike SOBO from Harper's Ferry to avoid the black flies and get to hike the Smokies when the snow has melted. Then, flip up to K and hike SOBO back to Harpers (which I did, and it was absolutely stellar.) The Virginia blues are a b**tch in the summer heat so by hiking SOBO you'd get to beat some of that. Two things I noticed NOBOs really get shorted on are the Smokies (they are much more enjoyable in summer,) and the mid-atlantic (much more pleasant in spring/fall.) You'd get to experience the NOBO and SOBO scene without getting caught up in the herds or drama. P.S. I'm antisocial so I'm always thinking of ways to get away from people.

[gracebowen]

I cant answer your questions but I am planning the same hike in a few years. I cant start till April 22 because my son wants me to leave after his birthday. Please post your trail journal if you keep one. Id love to read it.

[gracebowen]

For those with altrnative itineraries I would love to read your journals if you have them.

[Slo-go'en]

I started out on the FF send off weekend this last spring. My intent was simply to walk home to the White mountains (I live about 4 miles off a side trail from where the trail passes between Mt Jefferson and Mt Adams). I didn't quite make it, but I got real close.

There are definite pros and cons to a flip flop. Personally, I think a FF is harder to pull off then a traditional NOBO.

The weather in late April, early May can go either way. It's the transition between winter and spring. This last year, April and May weather was swapped. April had May weather and May had April weather. In any event, you can pretty much count on having a couple of weeks worth of cold, wet weather early on. Usually a few days at a time with a short lull between storms. Historically, April and May is the monsoon season for the mid and northern east coast and often extends into June in Maine and NH.

One of the selling points of a FF is you start out with flatter, supposedly easier terrain. The flatter part is correct, but the easier part can be debated. Especially for an older hiker and hitting PA with little warm up. We can't bounce over the rocks like the 20 somethings can after 1000 miles of conditioning. Add in a long cold, wet spell like we had this last spring in early May and PA becomes a challenge. One miss placed step on a wet rock and it's all over.

On the plus side it's quiet enough you can utilize shelters a lot, which is nice during a rainy spell.

Conditions in Vermont in early June, which is when you'd likely get there, are also highly variable. If it's been rainy, it will be muddy. If it's only rained recently, it will be muddy. If it is raining, your hiking in a stream. If your not in a stream, your not on the trail.

I hit Vermont just as it started to rain a lot again. I sloshed my way to Manchester Center (about 30 miles into VT) and bummed a ride to Hanover. I've already hiked that part of Vermont, in the mud, several times before and had no wish to repeat it once again. But after a few days in NH and the weather still not improving much, I simply hitched the rest of the way home.

The dreaded Black Flies have been very tame the last couple of years since we've been in a bit of a dry winter/spring pattern. If we have a more normal snow fall (which seems likely at the moment) and a reasonably wet spring this year, the black flies might make up for lost time.

The major disadvantage of the FF is the flop. By the time you go back to HF, it's mid July and full on summer. Which of course, means it's blazing hot and insufferably humid, along with a distinct lack of convenient water sources.

Of course, you can't avoid the summer going either way, but if your going NOBO, by the time it gets real hot, your going through areas with frequent ponds to wade in and water is still reasonably plentiful. Plus you get to see Maine in the fall, which is the best time to be there.

[Hikingjim]

I would rather do a flip flop the other way around. If you start late April, it's a nice time of year to head SOBO through Virginia from HF
Then you could flip all the way to Maine around the start of August, and experience the August/September glory months of the north-east. Or you could flip to HF and go NOBO, but you would be against the clock to get to katahdin if you were going slowly

It doesn't make much sense to me to do the north in may/june/july and then start heading south in August in the heat

[Red Sky]

I would rather do a flip flop the other way around. If you start late April, it's a nice time of year to head SOBO through Virginia from HF
Then you could flip all the way to Maine around the start of August, and experience the August/September glory months of the north-east. Or you could flip to HF and go NOBO, but you would be against the clock to get to katahdin if you were going slowly

It doesn't make much sense to me to do the north in may/june/july and then start heading south in August in the heat

I've looked at the other "alternate" hikes, and they all seem to have some advantage or disadvantage. I think that regardless, I'm going to get pretty cold and wet, or hot, at some point. One thing that attracts me to the SOBO from HF is the chance to hike in fall colors toward the end. On top of that, I live about 2 hours from Amicalola, so I'd be finishing my trip close to home.

[goldielocks]

2016 hopeful here.
I have been strongly leaning toward a FF myself (HF > Katahdin, HF > Springer). I live in the southeast, so I like this as it lets me end closer to home. I also like the idea of being relaxed in my pursuit to complete a successful thru hike. IT will also give me an additional month's time to save funds. I am also not in the best shape - the FF option allows me the opportunity to focus on success and enjoyment along the way. I race the clock M-F already; I don't want to rush on the trail. Also, the FF helps me avoid the "bubble." (This is a double edged sword. I am an incredibly social person, however I do not want to be in the bubble the whole time competing for resources, etc. Then again, this also minimizes opportunities to hitchhike with others and share hotel costs when in town)
Also, I really like the idea of taking a unique approach to the trail. It is different from the status quo and will aid in the preservation and upkeep of the trail by dispersing some of the strain of foot traffic.
My main concerns with the FF would be black flies and potentially being alone on my southbound portion.

Again, I am not 100% decided yet, but I am strongly leaning toward the FF option. I'll be keeping up with this thread myself!

[goldielocks]

2016 hopeful here.

Correction: 2017 hopeful.

[gracebowen]

I probably cant go till 2020

[Red Sky]

2016 hopeful here.
I have been strongly leaning toward a FF myself (HF > Katahdin, HF > Springer). I live in the southeast, so I like this as it lets me end closer to home. I also like the idea of being relaxed in my pursuit to complete a successful thru hike. IT will also give me an additional month's time to save funds. I am also not in the best shape - the FF option allows me the opportunity to focus on success and enjoyment along the way. I race the clock M-F already; I don't want to rush on the trail. Also, the FF helps me avoid the "bubble." (This is a double edged sword. I am an incredibly social person, however I do not want to be in the bubble the whole time competing for resources, etc. Then again, this also minimizes opportunities to hitchhike with others and share hotel costs when in town)
Also, I really like the idea of taking a unique approach to the trail. It is different from the status quo and will aid in the preservation and upkeep of the trail by dispersing some of the strain of foot traffic.
My main concerns with the FF would be black flies and potentially being alone on my southbound portion.

Again, I am not 100% decided yet, but I am strongly leaning toward the FF option. I'll be keeping up with this thread myself!

Those are my thoughts as well. I doubt that we're going to be totally on our own, as there will likely be section hikers on the southern portion of the trip. Who knows? I'm planning on attending the Flip Flop Festival, so maybe I'll see you there.

[Tolmann]

I'm going the flip-flop option, but I think I'm starting the week before the festival. I will definitely be taking me time to start. Tentatively summitting Kahtadin by end of July/early August. August in Virginia does give me pause, but want to finish up by end of October/early November. I'm hoping to find a flip-flop bubble to provide some social/moral support.

[Lauriep]

Laurie Potteiger from ATC here. I've made it my mission to talk to every flip-flopper possible who has come through Harpers Ferry to get his or her feedback. I've read their hike summaries when their 2,000-miler applications come in, and I've collected quotes from those.

Here are a handful of quotes from those hike reports that might be helpful to those contemplating a flip-flop:

A flip flop thru-hike was one of the best decisions we made prior to our hike. We got to start later, avoided the nobo crowds, caught the best weather at the right times, and helped to stave off the terrible health and environmental impacts of the nobo bubble in Georgia.
- Laura S.
5/2 – 11/20/15, Waynesboro, VA – Katahdin; Waynesboro to GA.

I would recommend a flip-flop hike to anyone, mostly because of the weather and conditioning. It was great to stretch out my hike for 3 seasons. You get the benefit of being in good shape for the difficult New Hampshire/Maine section but still get to experience fall in the South. I felt like I was able to appreciate and enjoy the entire hike. Nobos (northbound thru-hikers) I hiked with were exhausted and burnt out by New Hampshire—I was still loving it. Having 2 separate goals (Katahdin and Springer) really helps mentally.
- Virginia P.
Mid-Shenandoah, Virginia 4/21 north to Katahdin 7/11 (1.5 months off), Harpers Ferry 8/29 (repeated 85 miles) south to Springer Mtn., GA 10/30/2015.

I chose to Flip Flop after reading the ATC website & learning about the large trail impact of the Northbounding group. I also didn’t want to fight bugs & added moisture w/ going Southbound. It was the best decision! Finishing w/ both Nobos and Sobos was a very unique experience. I thoroughly enjoyed. Being in Maine in late Summer & hiking all of the southern half in Fall colors. Balance!
- Jordan N.

[I choose a flip-flop because] I did not want to feel pressured to make it to Katahdin... The flexibility of the flip-flop would allow me to take my time to enjoy the adventure as well as for time off the trail for family emergencies or injury. I enjoy hiking in the cooler weather and wanted to be in the south in spring and fall, the mid-Atlantic before mid-summer, and in New England in summer and early fall (after the worst of the black flies and mosquitoes). While I wanted to meet and enjoy the company of fellow thru-hikers, I hoped to avoid the more crowded conditions at shelters and campsites of the NOBO spring bubble.
- Anne B.
Pearisburg, VA north 4/5 – Katahdin 10/1/2014; Pearisburg south to Springer Mtn. GA 12/15/2014.

I started at Springer (2/24/2015), but conditions were bad, so I started at Rockfish Gap (the southern end of Shenandoah National Park in Virginia) a month later. Having become a flip-flopper by accident, I have to say it was a very fortunate one. Weather & trail conditions were very good, black flies & mosquitoes hardly troublesome & the shelters generally with space available (unlike GA in February).
- Michael F.

We recommend a flip-flop to anyone who wants good weather, wants to avoid the ‘party scene’ and ditch the competitive atmosphere of "big miles." – Daniel. “I loved the flip-flop. We had spectacular weather, avoided the large crowds, got to meet a lot of thru-hikers more individually. The fall in the Smokies was amazing. - Summer
Daniel and Summer H. Harpers Ferry, WV north 5/8 –.to Katahdin, ME; Harpers Ferry south to Georgia, ending 11/7/10.

We used the [Pawling-northbound start] itinerary because it fit into our starting date expectation and it was recommended on the ATC website. There were many benefits:

1) Avoiding the typically present black flies and harsher weather in Maine in June [that southbounders starting at Katahdin face]
2) Hiking with experienced northbounders in New England, giving advice
3) Still have time to develop trail legs before mountains of NH
4) Avoiding the starting “bubbles” of hikers
5) Wingdale/Pawling is a fairly easy access point to the trail with train access from NYC.
- Bobby and Lee T.,
Pawling/Wingdale, NY north 6/1 to Katahdin, Pawling, NY south to GA– 10/20/2013.

I have some additional observations to add, including things that I have learned just this year and last as more and more hikers attempt at flip-flop thru-hike starting mid-Trail:

• Anywhere you start the Appalachian Trail will probably seem hard unless you are are an experienced backpacker and have gear that fits, are in good shape, and have a light pack (under 25 lbs.)
• Younger hikers seem to enjoy the flip-flop approach more than older hikers. In part this may be due to the younger hikers having fewer injuries and illness, but I suspect there's more to it.
• The Pennsylvania rocks are especially daunting if you are just starting in Harpers Ferry. This year I met a 20-something guy who had been running track and field in college before hitting the Trail and said he found them really tough, both physically and mentally.

And some tips:

• Don't start in Harpers Ferry northbound before about mid-April, unless you have backpacked in cold weather and know you like it, and do not enjoy the company of other people.
• Starting in Shenandoah gives you 100 miles of some of the least difficult terrain (no such thing as truly easy on the A.T.) to begin with, but it will be 10 or more degrees colder than starting in Harpers Ferry. Winter still has a grip on the park through the month of April, with a few milder days mixed in (and occasionally--somewhat rarely-- there can be temps below freezing even in mid-May).
• Time your hike to avoid the mid-Atlantic [Front Royal, VA to New York or even southern New England) in summer. If you are starting your second leg southbound from Harpers Ferry, do not return until the beginning of September. Otherwise, it will be hot and humid, and there will be no other long-distance hikers to share your journey with.
• There a no guarantees with weather, only average trends. Be prepared. Nature still rules on the Appalachian Trail. The range between the record low and record high on any given day in any given location is usually 60 degrees, and if you factor in wind chill and the heat index, the range is even greater. You could encounter a flood or a forest fire in any state (though chances are you won't).

There's more information on our website at http://appalachiantrail.org/home/exp...ng/alternative. We continue to refine it as we learn more from hikers. Flip-floppers are true pioneers. To my knowledge, there is not yet even a single published book written about doing a flip-flop thru-hike starting mid-Trail, much less one on how to do it.

The ironic thing about a flip-flop hike is that even though in some ways it's a relatively modern approach to thru-hiking, it offers a more traditional experience, where crowding and partying is not part of the experience.

This year I interviewed on video a number of flip-floppers to get their perspectives on the first half of their hikes. Sometime (hopefully soon) I'll get those uploaded and share them here.

I hope this helps people just a little with their decisions.

[Red Sky]

Thanks Laurie, that's good information. I would love to see those video interviews as well. The comment about having two goals instead of just Katahdin makes sense. I think it would be good to break the thru hike into two trips, with a little time off to catch up with family, take care of business and just rest. I know there's a downside to that as well, but if you're really motivated to do the whole thing in one year, I think it makes sense to have a strategy that gives you the best chance of success. The other advantage for me is hiking the southern part of the trail in the fall. Fall colors!

[Lauriep]

Red Sky,

Thanks! Knowing that you are interested in the videos will help me get to that sooner.

Btw, I talked to another flip-flopper today who completed a "northbound flip-flop" (Rockfish Gap early May north to Katahdin late August, Springer early Sept. north to Rockfish Gap, ending late October). She had written on her 2,000-miler application "I loved the mix of social then solitude I got doing this northbound flip-flop." She, like quite a few others, acknowledged that it can be challenging to not just say "Good enough" upon reaching Katahdin. She motivated herself by purchasing the plane ticket for the second leg.

[moldy]

Don't drink the kool-aid. The ATC is pushing an agenda. They have a goal to spread out the crowd that forms every year at the South end of the trail. They may not be all that interested in you or your misery or your odds at being a successful thru hiker. The recanting of the long list of personal testimony is a marketing ploy. Notice how they picked the testimony of only "happy campers". The traditional NOBO or SOBO has better odds of success.

[Lauriep]

The first round of bar graphs from the 2017 Voluntary Thru-Hiker Registration were posted today here:

Here are three short videos I posted on YouTube today:

Flip-Flopping the A.T.: Thru-hiker "Whiskers"

Flip-Flopping the A.T.: Thru-hikers "Bubbles and Sprout"
Flip-Flopping the A.T.: Thru-hiker "Marvel"

I will post more videos later; some are a little more in depth about both pros and cons.