External frame packs
When did the world become anti external frame? It's one thing to not use them but people always talk ill of them, but why?
People often exhibit negative attitudes regarding gear they haven't experienced. It's human nature I guess. As for external frames, they have some advantages over internal frame packs, especially when portaging or for hauling wild game out of the backcountry. They are also usually cooler on your back, which is really nice in the summer months. But, in terms of general comfort, the typical internal frame usually wins out.
I'm currently using the Zpacks Arc haul, which is really an external frame that wears like an internal.
Last edited by Engine; 01-18-2017 at 14:09.
“He is richest who is content with the least, for content is the wealth of nature.” –Socrates
Bulkier and heavier and not as sleek-looking I guess. They are renowned for packing heavier gear well and since many people are going light-weight, or even ultra-light, they have no need for something that packs so much gear/weight. I think it becomes a "superior attitude" thing which is sad since they have their place, just like everything.
I also carry the Arc Haul which is as Engine said...external frame that carries better than, but wears like an internal frame.
As someone who owns two Kelty's and has put MANY thousands of miles on them, I do not denigrate them. They are very capable when heavier loads are demanded, and are more comfortable in very hot weather.
That said, with all of today's ultralight gear that is available, they are too heavy and are overkill for the typical backpacker, myself included. Now if I were a videographer, who was carrying many pounds of extra gear, they would be a very serious consideration. Back when I used my frame packs, I was normally carrying 45 - 50 pounds of gear. Today I rarely carry more than 23 pounds, and mostly less, often in the teens. To put this light of gear into a 5 lb pack makes no sense.
For a number of years prior to their "demise", the manufacturers of frame packs abandoned any new research and development, thus they never modified to lighter weight versions. Some cottage manufacturers attempted it, but they overly complicated the process and never developed a reasonable alternative.
Frame packs are GREAT. They are just unnecessary the vast majority of the time. Plus, frameless, or internal frame packs do offer some undeniable advantages as well. Especially when it comes to maneuverability and balance. We always had to account for the extra forces that would attempt to toss us around on stream crossings and rock scrambles when using a frame pack. Wasn't insurmountable, but had to be learned and anticipated.
Same reason I don't take myself to work in a minivan. No need, big and heavy
The main tools for the job are UL packs if you have all light gear, or more robust internal frame packs if you're packing 35-50 lbs+
I have a Kelty Trekker 65 external frame pack. I also have an Osprey Aether 60 internal frame pack. I like them both. The external frame pack weighs five pounds. The internal frame pack weights just under four pounds. The Kelty is great if I have a lot of stuff I can tie down to the frame to carry and don't mind being caught between the hurry-up sticker and the wait-a-minute vines. The Osprey moves with my form and hugs my body closer. Both are about the same when it comes to adjustability and customizing. That didn't used to be the case with externals, but with advancements in hip belt and shoulder straps, they're comparable. The Osprey does a good job of circulating air around my back, though it is still "wetter" than an external. My suspicion is that between the time internal frames became popular and suspension technology advanced, the internal frame already had a strong foothold. They just look "sexier" too. I would be surprised if external frames made a new dent in the market at this point, but as always, rock the kit that makes you happy, and HYOH.
Originally Posted by Puddle sleeper
Why, what's wrong with Minnie Van's?
External frame packs are good on trails where you don't need a lot of agility. On the rough trails like those we have here in New England, an internal frame makes it a lot easier.
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I hiked for many years with an external frame pack. Took me forever to find an internal-frame pack that pleased me. I only made the switch nine or ten years ago.
External frame packs have several advantages -- lots of pockets, cool on the back (if they have a mesh backing), can carry huge loads comfortably.
Disadvantages: they don't fit as snugly, they shift around, they squeak. They tend to snag on stuff, and make you less agile (as Slo points out) -- you notice this most when you're scrambling over big rock humps, or really any time the walking is less than bolt upright.
+1
Back in the 80's I owned a Camp Trails Adjustable 2 , My friend had a North Face BackMagic, and one other had a camp Trails Internal Frame ( can't rememeber the model, it was one of the first ). for a tent I had a Eureka Timberline 6 lbs , a Camping Gaz Globetrotter stove w/ cookset was probably 2lbs, North Face Cats Meow 20 synthetic 3 lbs ............so before you knew it, your up around 40 or 50 lbs. On a well maintained trail the pack handled very well. It was when you went off trail or had to maneuver through a sporty section where the external would "swing" and you had to be ready for it. That was the big selling point for an Internal. There was some weight reduction with an Internal, at the time, but not all that much.
The only other thing was branches would tend to catch on the upper spreader bar and the sides, annoying
For a hoot, try to look up some old photography of early Mt Everest Expeditions and see the equipment they used.
Another advantage of an external frame pack: A GOOD quality external frame can often be found for $25 or so in a used sportings good store. Many older externals also weigh 3-4 lbs. Not bad at all.
For a person starting out on the typically well-maintained trails, the old warhorse works well without breaking the bank.
Would I use an external at this point? Probably not. If I was just starting out again and on a budget? Absolutely.
Paul "Mags" Magnanti
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The true harvest of my life is intangible...a little stardust caught,a portion of the rainbow I have clutched -Thoreau
"Back in the 80's I owned a Camp Trails Adjustable 2"
I carried one of those on about 2/3 of the AT and hundreds of miles in the DAKs, White Mountains, etc.
Nothing wrong with and external frame, camparing a big old 5.5 pound orprey to 5.5 lb external. The external will be much cooler. Now comparing a 3.5 lb external to a 3.5 lb ULA catalyst. Wow! amazing they both carry 25lb and one absorbs all your sweat while the other does not. So lets think trail weight after you hike 12 miles in 85 degree heat, I bet I can add 2-3 labs of sweat soaked up by the internal. I mean have you ever smelled and internal pack with 1,000 miles on it? Your body does not touch a external fram pack only the band which does not absorb water. I know which one is cooler and lighter. But do you? My daughter thru hiked in 2013 with a 3.5lb external and everybody said oh my what a tank all the while there Osprey was heavier, she keep her mouth shut and smiled and said I like it best. It is whever you like not a game of what is popular.
I have a Seek Outside Unaweep. Weighs less than three pounds in Cuben Fiber hybrid. My go to pack for long backpacking trips.
2-3 lbs. of sweat absorbed into the pack? RU serious?
Z Packs Arc packs are external frame pack and are some of the most popular ones on the trail. I still prefer frameless over internal or external.
Started 20+ years ago with external. Still have an old one and got a new one last year. Wondering maybe I should get an internal just to see what all the hype is about. Looking at an osprey atmos 65 ag ??. a whole 9 oz lighter than my current external. stop the madness
Nothin wrong with external.
Carry cheap bulky gear best, which is why good for scouts.
Just not as compact and well balanced as internal frames, and some gear needs to go outside
Buy them for $25 used all day long.
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 01-18-2017 at 22:39.
My REI Wonderland is LOUD and RAtttttTtTles and Squee- EE- EE -EE - ks all the way down the trail. After 20 years, I found a lightweight pack that was more comfortable and much more pleasant to carry. I might carry my old external frame on a single overnight trip but, never again will I carry on a multiday hike.
I could carry my old Eureka Timberline as well but, I won't
We played a joke on another scout leader on a trip once.
Filled his pack frame with several lbs of lead shot
With internal, just have to sneak rocks in
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