Trail Blazing inconsistencies

[tdoczi]

Thru hikers are a minority in the whites. Most users are dayhikers on out and back hikes or on loops so those trails get a lot more use.

i would go a small step further and say hikers of any type (day, section, thru) who are intentionally using the AT because it is is the AT are a minority. a big one. most people who set foot on the AT in the whites aren't on it because its the AT, they are on it because its a trail that gets them to wherever they are going. one of many many such trails no more or no less important than any of the numerous others.

[kf1wv]

Those who cherish inconsistencies could hike Great Eastern Trail instead. http://www.gethiking.net/p/guides.html

... or the Ice Age Trail.

[soilman]

Thru hikers are a minority in the whites. Most users are dayhikers on out and back hikes or on loops so those trails get a lot more use.

Thru hikers are a minority on the AT.

[colorado_rob]

Thru hikers are a minority in the whites. Most users are dayhikers on out and back hikes or on loops so those trails get a lot more use.

Thru hikers are a minority on the AT.

Perhaps a better way of saying what PB said is that AT hikers (including weekend AT hikers, longer section hikers and thru hikers) are a minority in the Whites, more so than perhaps other places along the AT. And I would agree. But I still think the AMC cops an attitude towards the AT and basically downgrades it's importance as a national trail more than it should be, perhaps purposely not marking it better. But again, probably just my own perspective from the fact that I was a complete AT hiker, and thus think my poop doesn't stink. I do want to return to the whites and hike a bunch of the other trails, but definitely off-season!

[tdoczi]

Perhaps a better way of saying what PB said is that AT hikers (including weekend AT hikers, longer section hikers and thru hikers) are a minority in the Whites, more so than perhaps other places along the AT. And I would agree. But I still think the AMC cops an attitude towards the AT and basically downgrades it's importance as a national trail more than it should be, perhaps purposely not marking it better. But again, probably just my own perspective from the fact that I was a complete AT hiker, and thus think my poop doesn't stink. I do want to return to the whites and hike a bunch of the other trails, but definitely off-season!

its only downplayed if you begin from the notion that it should be more important. do you think the AMC treats their other trails better than the AT? if so i've never observed it, and i don't think thats what you are saying. i think you reflexively treat their acting as if the AT was just any other trail (which it is) as them "downplaying" it. it isn't.

i think you're arguing the AT should be treated as special and it is not. whenever this comes up, to me, it just shows a lack of depth of understanding of the white mountains are and the history of the region. the AT is the johnny come lately trail that just showed up in this place where people had long been hiking. the AT is a guest. one that could leave and it would make no difference to the WMNF or the AMC at all. it is treated appropriately to that fact and i don't see anything wrong with that. its perfectly reasonable.

[colorado_rob]

i think you're arguing the AT should be treated as special and it is not. whenever this comes up, to me, it just shows a lack of depth of understanding of the white mountains are and the history of the region. the AT is the johnny come lately trail that just showed up in this place where people had long been hiking. the AT is a guest. one that could leave and it would make no difference to the WMNF or the AMC at all. it is treated appropriately to that fact and i don't see anything wrong with that. its perfectly reasonable.

Perhaps you should read my second to last sentence, where I'm basically being self deprecating. You should also perhaps look up the definition thereof and consider adding it to your constant rantings, even though in your case, you'd be faking it.

And, the AT is a national trail. The rest of the trails in the Whites are not. It is special (the AT). Most of us WB'ers think it is, do we not?

[Dogwood]

The AT is special in the sense of losing my LD backpacking virginity but not everyone only experiences/marries the one they lost their virginity to.

[tdoczi]

And, the AT is a national trail. The rest of the trails in the Whites are not. It is special (the AT). Most of us WB'ers think it is, do we not?

you think it is. you're entitled to your opinion. the overwhelming majority of the people who manage and recreationally use the white mountains do not share it, and for perfectly valid reasons if one cares to open one's mind and look at them. who's viewpoint should rule? the view of a few thousand people who represent a small percentage of seasonal visitors, or the people who are the managers and regular users of the place? its all very self evident if one steps out of the AT centric bubble and thinks about it.

[Mr. Clean]

The double offset blazes are called garveys, named after the trail pioneer Ed Garvey, who invented them. A better way to blaze direction of trail, to be sure.
The reason for infrequent blazing in parts of the Whites has nothing to do with dislike of the AT, it has to do with that section running through a wilderness area, where it is against the law to blaze. Also, the AT has different names in the Whites because most trails were around and named long before the AT became an idea.

[tdoczi]

The double offset blazes are called garveys, named after the trail pioneer Ed Garvey, who invented them. A better way to blaze direction of trail, to be sure.

i guess his legacy will forever be tarnished by his "dumbing down" of the trail by having the nerve to figure out a way to paint blazes that actually mean something. good thing theres still a handful of trail clubs out there who are keeping it pure and refuse to be bamboozled by his efforts.

[tdoczi]

i guess his legacy will forever be tarnished by his "dumbing down" of the trail by having the nerve to figure out a way to paint blazes that actually mean something. good thing theres still a handful of trail clubs out there who are keeping it pure and refuse to be bamboozled by his efforts.

ironically, ed garvey was president of the PATC. a group who, at least in part, seems to have never adapted his blaze. (the place in southern PA i referred to is maintained, ultimately, by PATC).

[LittleRock]

Funny story (which happened because of confusing trail blazing):

On the AT going through farmland north of Atkins, VA the trail stopped at a "T" intersection with clear trails going left and right and a 4"x4" post with a single white blaze marking the intersection. I tried the left junction first and it led about 100 yards around a corner and down to a trough where a herd of cows were hanging around waiting to be fed. I backtracked and tried the right junction, which also led about 100 yards around a corner and dead-ended at a barbed wire fence.

When I turned around, I realized the entire herd of cows had followed me and they just stopped and stared at me. It was a little intimidating! I made my way back through the herd to the intersection, stared for a minute, and finally discovered a very faint trail going straight ahead through the grass. As it turns out, that trail was the AT!

[Dogwood]

This thread reminds me of why I get lost momentarily in all the different Home Depots since the floor layouts aren't all exact replicas. Oh the horror.

[Tennessee Viking]

It really depends on the trail club. Some trail clubs are very active in AT maintenance out almost weekly and also have people who maintain and regularly walk sections.

Some clubs only get out once a month or couple times a year. And rely on the AT trail crews for demanding projects.

I know GATC, CMC, TEHCC are very active. And are some of the most innovative clubs in trail maintenance.

A problem that PATH has is that a lot of its maintainers are based out of NC-Charlotte, the Triangle, the Triad...with smaller groups of local maintainers near the adopted trail in Virginia. They meet up only 1-2 times a month.

[peakbagger]

MATC is begging for maintainers, way to many miles for a very rural state to maintain.

[skater]

its only downplayed if you begin from the notion that it should be more important. do you think the AMC treats their other trails better than the AT? if so i've never observed it, and i don't think thats what you are saying. i think you reflexively treat their acting as if the AT was just any other trail (which it is) as them "downplaying" it. it isn't.

i think you're arguing the AT should be treated as special and it is not. whenever this comes up, to me, it just shows a lack of depth of understanding of the white mountains are and the history of the region. the AT is the johnny come lately trail that just showed up in this place where people had long been hiking. the AT is a guest. one that could leave and it would make no difference to the WMNF or the AMC at all. it is treated appropriately to that fact and i don't see anything wrong with that. its perfectly reasonable.

Tdoczi, you have made me step back and think. The AT is a special trail to me, and to thousands of others. Still, you have made me wonder about the perspective of people from the northern areas. Maybe some day I can get up there long enough to see it from your view.

[tdoczi]

Tdoczi, you have made me step back and think. The AT is a special trail to me, and to thousands of others. Still, you have made me wonder about the perspective of people from the northern areas. Maybe some day I can get up there long enough to see it from your view.

i encourage you to do so, if for not other reason than going to the whites thinking the AT is the only thing, or even the central thing there, is to really miss out.

but i will add, it is not my view (i'm not from there, i'm a visitor like most of us, (and an infrequent one at that) and that i dont think this generally concept just applies to the north or the AT or the AT in the north.

sometime after my last post in this thread, i thought of an example that illustrates the point. some may say that this is completely different or some such, but it really isnt. its just an example with a more extreme contrast which i think is useful in helping us see the issue.

anyway, the continental divide trail runs through, amongst other places, glacier national park and yellowstone national park. is the continental divide trail of particular importance to those parks? should those parks in any way dedicate extra resources to the upkeep and maintenance of those trails in a way that is above and beyond what is done to other trails and resources in the park?

the answer is obvious, the same relationship, while at a much lower contrast, exists between the AT and the WMNF and all concerned parties.

[MtDoraDave]

Funny story (which happened because of confusing trail blazing):

On the AT going through farmland north of Atkins, VA the trail stopped at a "T" intersection with clear trails going left and right and a 4"x4" post with a single white blaze marking the intersection. I tried the left junction first and it led about 100 yards around a corner and down to a trough where a herd of cows were hanging around waiting to be fed. I backtracked and tried the right junction, which also led about 100 yards around a corner and dead-ended at a barbed wire fence.

When I turned around, I realized the entire herd of cows had followed me and they just stopped and stared at me. It was a little intimidating! I made my way back through the herd to the intersection, stared for a minute, and finally discovered a very faint trail going straight ahead through the grass. As it turns out, that trail was the AT!

On my section hike last November near Atkins, VA, I was dropped off by the shuttle driver 85 mi north of Damascus (Ceres VA) and hiked south (back to Damascus). Hiking through one of the several pastures, I was following the trail and there was a post sunk next to the trail with a blaze on it, quite faded. The trail continued straight - easily visible, as much of the AT is; it was a clear rut. I happened to look to the left and saw a blaze over on the edge of the pasture. Huh? I went over to it, and sure enough THAT was the trail. The cattle had made the "clear trail rut" that I thought was the continuation of the trail going straight. Apparently, the faded post blaze was a double blaze indicating a turn, but it must have been covered with barbed wire or something, because I didn't notice that it was a double, or maybe I didn't pay it much attention because the trail seemed to clearly keep going straight. Not sure how long I would have followed the cattle trail if I hadn't happened to see a blaze off to my left. lol.

[Bronk]

Wait til you hike somewhere the trails are poorly maintained, might not have been hiked on for years, and then there are illegal side trails that are not marked on any map so you come to an intersection and have no idea which way you are supposed to go because there aren't any blazes at all.

[peakbagger]

Wait til you hike somewhere the trails are poorly maintained, might not have been hiked on for years, and then there are illegal side trails that are not marked on any map so you come to an intersection and have no idea which way you are supposed to go because there aren't any blazes at all.

Yes they are called Wilderness areas in the Whites. The so called "wilderness areas" were quite popular and beaten down prior to the wilderness area designation. The FS has stopped maintaining blazes in these areas and frequently the current route diverges off the older much more obvious routes. There are usually signs at intersections and an occasionally an arrow may appear where the trail turns abruptly but you cant plan on it. I and others feel its just a long term plan to make the trails in these areas get used far less often that will eventually will lead to official trail abandonment. I expect that in the whites, the trail network as big as it will get and 20 years down the road there will be less of them.