How to avoid any and all snow in the Sierra

[Sasquatch!]

It's really easy....skip the Sierra and come back in September. The Sierra is beautiful in the September. There are hardly any mosquitoes; there are less people; and there is no snow. An additional bonus is there are an abundance of red currants to eat along the trail.

NOBO or SOBO is going to have a very rough time this year with snow without taking a break and/or skipping ahead. Snow is dangerous, especially in Northern Cascades where avalanches and landslides are very common.

[ranger2012]

I'll second that. I did it in 2015 (low snow year) due to a persistent storm in the southern Sierras. Hitched from Lone Pine to Truckee and hiked to Canada. The bus ride from Vancouver back down to Truckee was not pleasant but then I hiked south from Truckee to Lone Pine. Still got snowed on one day in late August. No regrets.

[burger]

This is kind of useless advice. Where exactly is a NOBO who gets to KM June 15th supposed to skip to? That's too early to start a SOBO, and most of the rest of the trail will still be snow-covered. You might be able to get into parts of northern California, but not all of it.

Best bet for a hiker this year who wants a continuous thru-hike is to SOBO. Otherwise, I'd say start late at Campo, deal with the heat, and hope the melt goes quickly.

[Slo-go'en]

From the looks of it, there is so much snow it won't all melt this summer at all. How long does 60 feet of snow take to melt anyway?

[Dogwood]

Misleading. As stated on the other PCT snow thread it's a false assurance that avoiding snow, particularly in this yr's snow pack, is totally avoided by skipping the Sierra as if the Sierra is the only potential segment containing snow.

I've observed PCT NOBOers attempting to do this in yrs past, skipping around, jumping from the frying pan into the fire attempting to avoid snowpack travel. It has resulted in more PCTers than I can recall missing segments, some quite scenic, or having incredible hassles attempting to hike those missed segments. I've been in this situation a few times on different hikes. It can be a mental anticlimactic let down at the perceived end of a LD thru-hike attaining a terminus to have to mentally and physically, and financially, regroup to hike missed segments. I'd offer most just go home and say they thru-hiked coughing up their missed segments to "conditions."

Although not relied upon as often as perhaps in yrs past the Wilderness Press PCT books(hurried cultured folks want succinct sound bites rather than detailed info which can cost them in ways not realized) did a good job of describing snowpack on the different segments that were often problematic in times(yrs and months) of heavy snowpack. If I was PCT thru-hiking this yr I would review these books for that beta and organize my thru appropriately for a seamless consist forward progress.

[colorado_rob]

From the looks of it, there is so much snow it won't all melt this summer at all. How long does 60 feet of snow take to melt anyway?

It sure does look bleak for any sort of creative skipping/flipping on the PCT this year, simply because of reasons already kind of stated: you'd have to skip so far ahead way into NO-CAL, you'd still run into problems in the PAC NW. But by September, the Sierra should be fine, though still patchy in a few areas, should be no problem by then.

I sure don't see a "really easy" solution, other than just be geared for lots of snow travel, which to me is fairly easy to see doing, though it sure would slow down a typicall thru attempt. We switched our attention form the PCT to the AT this year because of this Epic snow, we basically chickened out, consistent with my first trail name "Sir Robin".

[Malto]

This is kind of useless advice. Where exactly is a NOBO who gets to KM June 15th supposed to skip to? That's too early to start a SOBO, and most of the rest of the trail will still be snow-covered. You might be able to get into parts of northern California, but not all of it.

Best bet for a hiker this year who wants a continuous thru-hike is to SOBO. Otherwise, I'd say start late at Campo, deal with the heat, and hope the melt goes quickly.

Couldnt agree more. There is a huge difference between 2015 and this year. There were countless hikers in '11 attempting to flip and skip, mostly unsuccessfully. While this year doesn't yet look as bad as '11 (overall, not just the Sierra) there doesn't appear to be a lot of good options other than SoBo which is looking close to average.

[AlpineKevin]

I'm also not sure hiking over 13,000 foot passes in the Sierras in Sept/Oct (you won't finish in 1 week) is smart considering that they have received feet of snow before in both months (albeit Sept is rare). Also not sure if resupply points like JMR, VVR, Reds, and others will be still open.

[colorado_rob]

I'm also not sure hiking over 13,000 foot passes in the Sierras in Sept/Oct (you won't finish in 1 week) is smart considering that they have received feet of snow before in both months (albeit Sept is rare). Also not sure if resupply points like JMR, VVR, Reds, and others will be still open.

Smart ????????????????? Where on earth do you get a handle such as "Alpine Kevin" then? This kind of over-conservatism is silly, and would cause many folks to never hike at all. September/Early October is quite simply The Best time in the Sierra. In that rare year that a couple feet dumps in September or early October, you simply pack it in and go home. What would be "not smart" about planning a Sierra trip in September/October?????

I keep going back in September/October, and have never been affected by even RAIN, let alone snow that time of year.

[AlpineKevin]

Smart ????????????????? Where on earth do you get a handle such as "Alpine Kevin" then? This kind of over-conservatism is silly, and would cause many folks to never hike at all. September/Early October is quite simply The Best time in the Sierra. In that rare year that a couple feet dumps in September or early October, you simply pack it in and go home. What would be "not smart" about planning a Sierra trip in September/October?????

I keep going back in September/October, and have never been affected by even RAIN, let alone snow that time of year.

I've lived in Mammoth Lakes for years before. I know how lovely Septembers are. I also know how quickly snow kills. Every year we usually have several people accidentally ski down the back of Mammoth into Reds Meadows. Even when ski patrol and Forest Service rescue is put into motion at ski lift closing time (usually that's when security gets alerted because I worked security) sometimes they do not get to them before they die from exposure next morning. And these are people decked out in cold weather gear only a few thousand feet from a major ski resort/town. If you are stuck at the bottom of Vidette Meadows and a foot snow storm moves in you could easily be in trouble. You want to refer to the %95 of the time, but it's the %5 of the time that will get ya. I'm not saying people don't hike deep through the Sierras in September, I'm not saying people don't hike through the Himalayans in winter, but there is a difference between hiking weeks through the longest road-less expanse in the lower 48 with a 3-season tent, a 3-season sleeping bag, and a couple layers of clothes verses someone in high altitude expedition gear taking 2 days from the side country to snag that one ski line. Yes you can hike weeks in the backcountry of the Sierras in the potentially snowy September, but there are added risks. It's not like a June crossing is all I'm saying.

[AllDownhillFromHere]

Sounds like the choice is to carry 3-season gear and hike through a potentially snowy September Sierra, or carry 3-season gear and hike through a definitely snowy July Sierra.

[Malto]

I've lived in Mammoth Lakes for years before. I know how lovely Septembers are. I also know how quickly snow kills. Every year we usually have several people accidentally ski down the back of Mammoth into Reds Meadows. Even when ski patrol and Forest Service rescue is put into motion at ski lift closing time (usually that's when security gets alerted because I worked security) sometimes they do not get to them before they die from exposure next morning. And these are people decked out in cold weather gear only a few thousand feet from a major ski resort/town. If you are stuck at the bottom of Vidette Meadows and a foot snow storm moves in you could easily be in trouble. You want to refer to the %95 of the time, but it's the %5 of the time that will get ya. I'm not saying people don't hike deep through the Sierras in September, I'm not saying people don't hike through the Himalayans in winter, but there is a difference between hiking weeks through the longest road-less expanse in the lower 48 with a 3-season tent, a 3-season sleeping bag, and a couple layers of clothes verses someone in high altitude expedition gear taking 2 days from the side country to snag that one ski line. Yes you can hike weeks in the backcountry of the Sierras in the potentially snowy September, but there are added risks. It's not like a June crossing is all I'm saying.

Are you sure you lived in mammoth lakes ca? If I were to get stuck in Vicente Meadows with a foot of snow then it would absolutely not be a life threatening situation. Why? Because I skip my way on down to Lower elevation at Roads End. While the road may be closed you could make your way out to the west. I have been at Vidette Meadows three times in serious snow, in April 2010, May 2009 and June 2011. Also, I think you embellished the ski off the back side of Mammoth a bit. While there have been a few people get caught up in early season snow and several rescues, there have not been many deaths. I also may spent many days in the Sierra in September and October. While I would be very careful to watch and monitor weather, there are so many bail out points that you could execute Plan B,C,D or E. (There are 26 letters in the alphabet.). By the time a thru hiker, SoBo, flipper or skipper hits the Sierra in your scenario they would be a peak shape and able to use miles as an additional safety factor.

[colorado_rob]

I've lived in Mammoth Lakes for years before. I know how lovely Septembers are. I also know how quickly snow kills. Every year we usually have several people accidentally ski down the back of Mammoth into Reds Meadows. Even when ski patrol and Forest Service rescue is put into motion at ski lift closing time (usually that's when security gets alerted because I worked security) sometimes they do not get to them before they die from exposure next morning. ... Yes you can hike weeks in the backcountry of the Sierras in the potentially snowy September, but there are added risks. It's not like a June crossing is all I'm saying.

HAve these poor souls you are referring to died in September by this wrong-way skiing?

There are risks any month of the year. I would venture to say September is, per hiker mile, one of the very least dangerous months with the most stable weather, second only to perhaps August and maybe July. I would also guess that many more poor souls have died in June than in September, but just a guess. Are you suggesting that the only time to hike through the sierra in in July or August? Sorry, that's ridiculous. The risk from a surprise huge September dumper is tiny, and easily predicted and avoided.

An analogy: We DO indeed get huge dumpers in Colorado in July. Would you also suggest not to hike in Colorado in July? August (probably the most dangerous summer month)? September?

[Wooobie]

im just going to walk north until i cant.

[Dogwood]

With all ya all NOBOs considering bailing or poo pooing the situation seems like a fine time for me to do a PCT NOBO...with GPS this yr.

Snow will be scenic. I'll bring pants to glissade. Don't forget the WP trail runners.

[AlpineKevin]

We DO indeed get huge dumpers in Colorado in July.

Dude, I'm a life long skier who has ski bummed for a decade. CO does not get huge dumps in any month. Unless you think 3 inches is a huge. That's why I only ski CA, UT or WY.

[colorado_rob]

Dude, I'm a life long skier who has ski bummed for a decade. CO does not get huge dumps in any month. Unless you think 3 inches is a huge. That's why I only ski CA, UT or WY.

You are absolutely delerious, worse than i thought if you think CO snowfall is that paltry. I do agree all of those other states can, at times, get bigger snow, but CO is right up there.
Here's a good page on overall snow depth/quality for skiing, everyone who skis in the US knows UT is #1, and as you say, WY is up there, but you failed to mention BC, but CA? way down the list, though of course this year you guys must be having a blast, here's a link, just one snow survey, I'm sure there are plenty:

https://www.zrankings.com/resort/snow

UT has #1,2,5,7 (by far the best)
WY has #4,28 (I'm sure it would have more in the top if it had more people living there to support more areas!)
CO has #6, 11,12,13,14,15,20,21 (We ski mostly at 11,12 and 20)
CA has #10,18 (might move up the list if you get more years like this one)

Face it, you made an absurd comment earlier, i called you on it, as did others, now you're making more nonsense up.

[Kookork]

Couple of clicks here and there and one would find out how Colorado snow stacks up with other states. ( I am too lazy to do that albeit) but personally I go with Colorado-rob in this one for two reasons. He has colorado in his name and more importantly I enjoy reading most of his comments!!! aint that enough reason???

[colorado_rob]

Couple of clicks here and there and one would find out how Colorado snow stacks up with other states. ( I am too lazy to do that albeit) but personally I go with Colorado-rob in this one for two reasons. He has colorado in his name and more importantly I enjoy reading most of his comments!!! aint that enough reason???

Thanks. BTW, I just edited my response below with a link to snow ratings w.r.t. skiing. here it is again:

https://www.zrankings.com/resort/snow

[ScareBear]

Utah= Greatest Snow on Earth
Colorado=Champagne Powder
California=Sierra Cement

Granted, CO almost never gets the multi-day 6 foot snow events that North Lake Tahoe does, but the quality of snow is far far far far far far far superior. Did I say CO was better snow? Yeah, that. UT gets WAY more of it than CO every single year, though. I don't really ski JH anymore, so I can't comment on WY. CO is a super cheap flight these days and only a 12 hour drive, so it's been the goto ski state for us since Frontier got in the DEN-STL game....