The biggest surprise I had in hiking the JMT was in discovering that packing out your TP simply WAS NOT A BIG DEAL!!!
Pack out where legally required. Bury where allowed. Be as conscientious with your pack-out as you are with your bury.
Absolutely not true in arid climates.Originally Posted by AlpineKevin
On normal AT terrain, buried in loose, aerated, peaty damp soil with beacoup microorganisms, sure. Thats not what being discussed
Last edited by MuddyWaters; 03-15-2017 at 09:16.
Pack out your TP. There are people who travel the PCT more than once, and more than once a year. They see the impact of illegal fires, trashed out water caches and people who don't pack out their TP. If carrying a few pits of paper is more than you are capable of, maybe you need a new hobby.
Does anyone sell opaque zip lock bags?
"It's fun to have fun, but you have to know how." ---Dr. Seuss
I've been packing out my TP for at least 10 years. It isn't a big deal. After being on the trail for a while,. Your TP isn't even getting that messy unless you drank the wrong untreated water. I often reuse the same used TP Ziploc for weeks because it looks and smells (on the outside at least) fine.
Why don't some of you scoffers state what your fears are about this so we can understand what the problem is. Because, as I've stated before, I'm curious about what your trail diet is that is creating such toxic waste that it will eat through plastic.
The PCTA didn't create the requirement, it was the local land agencies such as Yosemite NP and many others. It's just they, like many of us who regularly hike these areas, agree with the idea after seeing the problems that the large numbers of users are causing. It isn't just the PCT hikers. Many areas get a lot of use without them. And when the toliet paper takes years to break down (unlike in wetter and lower elevation environments back east), it adds up. You should be grateful that only the Whitney zone requires packing out poop, because I suspect that if they thought it was practical, that also would be more common in some high use areas.
Last edited by Miner; 03-15-2017 at 11:46.
What are you worried about? You should be able to pack out plenty of TP with your backpack with wheels. Wait....I thought you cancelled your hike because of the high snow fall.
How many rangers ask to see your packed out TP bag? I do not like seeing TP all over the place, but I think you can take some extra time to do it right. Buying the right stuff probably helps too as does adding a little water and minimizing the amount used.
"Though I have lost the intimacy with the seasons since my hike, I retain the sense of perfect order, of graceful succession and surrender, and of the bold brilliance of fall leaves as they yield to death." - David Brill
Depends on when you hike it and the individual. For this year's thru hikers, I'd say yes. Not for just Whitney a bit the entire high Sierra. . I personally find that poles help on spring snow in keeping you from sliding in the first place and was glad I had them in a normal snow year. Micro spikes also can really help in the morning when it's a bit icy, less so latter (real crampons are likely overkill for most). If you hike latter in summer after the snow melts off, neither are necessary but I still like the poles going downhill for my knees.
Last edited by Miner; 03-15-2017 at 11:58.
I know of three options for dealing with TP, all with downsides.
1) Burn the TP in case where fire risk is low.
2) Bury it where it can be burned and it has a chance to decompose.
3) Carry it out when both 1 and 2 fail.
I was also in the bury camp until a ranger in Yosemite told me about animals digging up cat hole. There are ways of helping the breakdown process with liquids such as urine and mixing the TP in with the waste. I have been seeing an increasing number of blooms as well as very shallow cat holes right smack in the middle of well used campsites. I am not by any means a LNT zealot but you have to consider what your actions x10,000 hikers mean to well used portions of trails. Image for a minute the amount of crap in the first 100 miles of the PCT with 50 hikers a day starting for weeks on end. Maybe this is what the newspaper are talking about in reference to the SuperBloom this year.
enemy of unnecessary but innovative trail invention gadgetry
I gotta say...I feel really bad for the future of the PCT because it seems like a lot of the newer hikers are super entitled and feel like they own the trail and make the rules. You don't.
Anyway, I carried out most of my TP on my thru in '09 and it is absolutely no big deal. Never had any issues with smell or anything.
Here's a pro tip: your first wipe should not be with TP. Use a rock, snow, pine or fir cones, twigs, etc (snow is the best). Drop that in your cathole. After the first wipe or two, there's hardly anything left, and you pack out TP that is hardly dirty at all.
Burning TP is a really, really bad idea. Most of the area along trail is covered with deep duff--decomposing conifer needles--which is very flammable. You are essentially putting a lit match into that stuff. Fires can smolder for a long time underground before anyone aboveground notices. Just carry it out instead.
Give me a break, too, from all the self-consumed, whiny, rationalizing, "outdoorsmen" (and I use the term loosely) who can't handle a bit of "icky" in the outdoors.
Animals dig up catholes. TP does NOT magically decompose overnight. Not only do more people = more need for LNT, but more people who rebel against LNT = need for more enforcement, which affects us all, even the good guys.
These fanciful self-serving excuses are just that. Perhaps some folks just need to stay home near "indoor facilities" and leave the outdoors to folks who can hack it?
[I]ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: ... Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit....[/I]. Numbers 35
[url]www.MeetUp.com/NashvilleBackpacker[/url]
.
This all day long!
Alright, you guys converted me, I thought decomp of the TP was sufficient, but I've read some good points. Will be bringing a ziplock on my thru.
Amen. What a bunch of pansies.
With their panties in a bunch. Pansy Panties. Pansy Panties Pack Poop Protesting Public Poop Packing Program...just sayin...
Talked with a ranger in Sequoia NP at Mineral King right after he finished a week long patrol in the Backcountry. Every patrol, he has to pick up used toliet paper exposed. He shouldn't have to since the rules require packing it out and it wasn't what he signed on for. He buys Ziplocs out of his own limited money and gives them out for free to encourage people to do the right thing so he doesn't have to do it for them.
Last edited by Miner; 03-15-2017 at 14:10.
Without a doubt, has to be a top 10 contender for the worse job in the world.
" Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt. "
Right up there with the MATC caretakers that manually compost the privies at Horn's Pond. Picture having to mix two bathtubs full of human waste, then stir it, dump it out, monitor it for temperature, and then distributing the resultant soil back into the woods. Oh, and removing the wine bottles, flashlights and tampons that people throw into the privies at the same time. Hint: I've done it, it's terrible.
This has been an interesting thread. Unlike the permit system, where somehow 49 people is ok, but 51 people per day is too many, the PCTA gets it right on this for reducing impact - burying TP in a desert doesn't work, ESPECIALLY when you have 100 people pooping in a too-small radius around the known good campsites.
The point of LNT, and the point of probably the majority of outdoor enthusiasts, is to enjoy nature and wilderness AS wilderness. TP flowers and the smell of poop turn wilderness into not-wilderness, thus removing the very attraction that drew people to the place.
https://lnt.org/learn/principle-3
In a hot desert, human waste does not biodegrade easily because there is littleorganicsoil to help break it down.
Toilet Paper in Arid Lands: Placing toilet paper in plastic bags and packing it out as trash is the best way to Leave No Trace in a desert environment. Toilet paper should not be burned. This practice can result in wild fires.
This is a huge problem in many areas, for instance the Adirondack Park in NY:
http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/f...-a-little-girl
http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/f...-trashy-report
http://www.adkhighpeaks.com/forums/f...ng-trip-thread
At least in the low (4-5k feet) and wet NE buried poop has a chance to decompose.
if you don't like packing it out...............then stay away from here
https://www.blm.gov/az/st/en/arolrsm...ck_in_out.html
actually its not as bad as you would think, when you get a permit the BLM will give you special bags with a built in deoderant. But, I did use a Heavy Duty garbage bag ( acutally I used 2 together ) to keep thing seperated inside my pack.............so to speak.
Poop on a sandy area and then scoop it into the bag. Simple and straight forward.
Too many folks on the planet, get use to it..............
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