Harvey Lewis - 2018 AT Supported FKT Attempt

[colorado_rob]

Between the weather and the rough Treadway, the AT is the ultimate endurance challenge.

That's for sure. Of all the amazing physical feats, I admire the AT endurance racers the most. Second place would have to go to the Barkley participants.... Or maybe the Badwater folks....

[JC13]

Sure, he may "hate" the AT, but he probably doesn't consider the AT to "be beneath him", which implies snobbishness, which I say he doesn't have, which was my only point. Lots of westerners "hate" the AT, for reasons I already stated. In fact, none of my local trail running pals wouldn't consider doing anything ultra out east, even when I tell them they don't know what they are missing.

I gotcha, the heat and humidity are no fun.

[ScottS]

If I remember correctly he finished several 50mi days in 11-12 hours

This still blows my mind. Especially when he described his mornings as being pretty relaxed getting out.
He finished top ten at Gorge. He's absolutely a runner.

In fact, none of my local trail running pals wouldn't consider doing anything ultra out east, even when I tell them they don't know what they are missing.

They should come out and hate it so we can keep saying they're soft.
GDR is probably the only race that will ever draw West coast guys and that's not even that bad. I want elites out here for Cruel Jewel, Superior or Eastern States. Maybe Uwharrie.

[chknfngrs]

Is saabe going for supported or unsupported

[Violent Green]

Is saabe going for supported or unsupported

Supported attempt

[CalebJ]

According to Joe, he ran the downs, flats and some of the ups. If I remember correctly he finished several 50mi days in 11-12 hours. To me, thats a runner, but we would just be arguing semantics at that point.

Holy smokes. I had no idea he'd been maintaining that kind of moving pace. That's mind blowing for a long distance trail like the AT. A few hundred miles is one thing, but to repeat that performance for weeks is wild.

[JC13]

This still blows my mind. Especially when he described his mornings as being pretty relaxed getting out.He finished top ten at Gorge. He's absolutely a runner.They should come out and hate it so we can keep saying they're soft. GDR is probably the only race that will ever draw West coast guys and that's not even that bad. I want elites out here for Cruel Jewel, Superior or Eastern States. Maybe Uwharrie.

Looks like we have 14 West Coasters coming out for the Pinhoti 100, gotta get that golden ticket!

[Just Bill]

Holy smokes. I had no idea he'd been maintaining that kind of moving pace. That's mind blowing for a long distance trail like the AT. A few hundred miles is one thing, but to repeat that performance for weeks is wild.

Both Joe and Joey ran. I'm a bit foggy on Stringbean's breakdowns but I believe Joey's biggest day was a 67, his worst was a 10 when he tore his quad.
Both of them did 'rip off a quick 50' at times which I believe helped manage the days for those who wonder how a self supported attempt could find the time to do what needed to be done.

My personal viewpoint only...
Both Jurek and Meltzer performed a fairly traditional "runner" style supported hike. Based loosely on the ultrarunning style of going from aide station to aide station, ideally with the day ending at access to the support vehicle.
It would be hard to argue Jurek had good logistics and knowledge of the trail, but it would be unfair to Karl (and Belz) to say that their logistics wasn't up to snuff.

What Jen did was truly unique. It was a hybrid of running and hiking in terms of style. She and Brew approached the FKT like a hike with a car logistically. You could think of it more as a slack pack really than a supported hike, as rather than beat their collective heads and wasted energy on making each possible point of aide a priority... they worked with the trail and accepted the logistics at face value in terms of what was realistic and what was not. As Brew mentioned... they couldn't sleep in the SUV anyway... but they took that further when needed and brought the camp where it needed to be. Both Doyle and Horton were secret weapons; but it is quite clear that Brew was very skilled at putting the support just where it needed to be. And as a hiker Jen wasn't as affected by 'missing the aide station' mentally as others have been on the rare mishap that did occur.

It terms of a supported hike, I think they set a model that is nearly ideal.
Further- You couldn't discount the dedication of Karl's crew and the emotional support of his father, nor could you say that Jenny Jurek didn't love and support Scott. However it would be hard to match the level of interconnection and support expressed between Brew and Jen. All supported efforts speak to a degree of the 'team' reaching the goal but I think you'd be hard pressed to find a husband and wife partnership equal on the level of the Davis crew.

Above all; they were in harmony with the trail in a way that very closely mimics the connection of the self-supported hiker. I'm not claiming that supported hikes cannot enjoy, love, or deeply connect with the trail. Far from it. However there is a slight (but profound) difference in attitude to the way one chooses to travel on the trail itself. One's impact, visibility, and respect that is hard to slip into when on a more traditional supported effort. All hikers understand this. No matter what speed you hike at: when all is going well, despite the highs and lows or difficulty encountered; the trail supports you. Without that support it is a vicious battle. With that support anything is possible.

Putting a crew together, dealing with logistics, bringing a vehicle to the woods, juggling multiple personalities, differing moods and energy levels are all huge challenges. There is an added financial burden, LNT issues, and even the public perception do deal with when going supported. More or less... you take on all these challenges for the simple benefit of carrying a bit less stuff.

Increasingly it is debatable if this is a fair trade.
The AT is choppable into to very logistically manageable 50-200 mile sections. With some planning and knowledge there exist many opportunities to further adjust on the fly. At 50 MPD and advances in ultralight gear the line between supported hiker moving between aide stations and self supported hiker moving between towns is blurring quickly.

I doubt there is a best. It's too personal.
I'd have a hard time picturing a career runner like Scott or Karl abandoning a lifetime of experience simply to try it.
I'd have a hard time picturing Jen moving without the carrot of Brew at the end of each day's trail pulling her along so quickly.
I'd have a hard time seeing Joey Camps trade the love and peace of a solo trip just to save a few pounds.

I could easily see a master strategist like Matt Kirk developing a hybridized style just for the intellectual challenge of it.
I could easily understand how Stringbean, much like Williamson before him, could find a way to 'beat the runners'.

Though it is increasingly clear that regardless of approach or style; not running at points is no longer a serious option.
Even a blistering 4 MPH hour walking pace for 15 hours a day in some form of hyper Jennifer Pharr Davis modeled trip is unlikely. There is a natural speed limit on the AT that would swat down this plan. The terrain dictates the speed. The cycle of the sun dictates the time available.
The strategy of both the tortoise and the hare is currently required.

Being most familiar with Joey's attempt (but expecting deep parallels with Stringbean) it is clear that is the model of success.
Being self-supported, rather than wake up and pour over a road map... they could wake up and pour over an elevation profile. Joey could pick and choose where to fight his battles. When the wise and patient tortoise should plod along and when the hare should rip off a half day 50 and take a nap. That stretch of positive forward progress dictated by hours upon hours of steady walking with little sleep could be balanced and mixed with a quick day of jogging backed up by an 8 hour or longer period of sleep. While some see the bursts of speed as counter productive to slow steady consistency... I think that buying back a few hours to replenish the sleep deprivation piggy bank via running made a big difference to both Joes.


Most importantly perhaps, with no-one to depend on and no-one depending on them; they were free to listen to both body and trail in terms of when to implement these strategies.

Unlike typical supported logistics... with out frequent 'aide stations' to check into and splits to micro analyze your goals are broader. Sure everyone is shooting for 'daily' goals but I feel the self supported or solo hiker is less prone to pushing one's self to the redline quite so often. We all have ups and downs. If every 5-12 miles you're pushing to stay on pace... that's much different than walking for several hours when your body tells you and then ripping off serious miles when your body gives you the green light.


With logistics pushed out to 50, 75, or 100+ miles at a time rather than simply the next road crossing... the carrots were harder to reach but bigger draws.
You read Jen describe making a push to see Brew, or a runner sucking it up for an extra dozen miles to reach the next stop when times are hard and energy is low.
But what you didn't read much of is when Joey Camps looked several dozen miles ahead and made multi-day pushes to reach his carrots.

Every hiker understands that time you looked at the data book, dug out some device to tell you that it was indeed a 'thursday' and you better kick some ass if that resupply, town meal and beer you wanted is going to happen, because you need to be there on Saturday rather than Sunday when things are closed. Once you've cleared down you can go back to a more proper schedule of Yesterday, Today, Tomorrow and slip back out of needing to know any other labels.
To an extent, the supported hiker never quite gets to slip reality in quite the same way a hiker does. They have to focus on days, hours, stops, miles, checkpoints.

The self-supported FKT isn't quite the totally carefree traveling of the long distance hiker... but it's much closer. Hit town, look to the next one, then put your head down and make it happen. Maybe it is three days out, and you do have to do a quick calculation on if three days happens to be on a Sunday or not. There is a clear goal, but it is a bit broader than the next crossing. You can always set those micro targets as needed, however you can abandon them too. So long as when you next hit town is not going to be a scheduling issue you are once more free to shoulder a pack, melt into the woods, and travel the trail as you see fit.

Not being a master runner... I find it debatable if 5 lbs or so is some magical limiting factor that would crush all pace and effort on a highly technical multi-week trail like the AT.
Doing one of Jurek's 24 hour laps around the track type competitions... I could easily see there being an significant impact. But when restricted by the terrain and subject to the whims of weather and nature I'd think the freedom to do what you will, when you will is far more strategically valuable than shortening your resupply from 150 miles to 12 miles or so at a time. Perhaps I'm too much of a backpacker to think otherwise...

Pushing through a bad storm because you have a checkpoint... picking up hypothermia because you don't have sufficient gear... missing your crew and going several hours without food or water... killing yourself on the last hour of the day because you don't have sleep gear... crashing and sleeping on the trail mid-morning and the mental highs and lows of OTHERS being involved in your hike.

Better to duck in that next shelter and chat with a hiker, or make a quick hot drink during that storm. Unless you miss a spring or find a dry one... you can't miss connecting with what you already are carrying. And if you're drained and the last few miles will kill you for tomorrow you just pull out your bivy and sleep right beside yer old friend the trail.

And if all has fallen into place; you are in the right space, you are fast, you are light and most important you are free.
Well there is nothing but miles and miles of trail ahead of you calling you to float along beside her and enjoy the day.

Peace and Love indeed.

[JC13]

Beautifully spoken as usual Bill!

[brew]

I chose to train for and run a 100 miler when Charley was one and to record an album when Gus was one. The album was a lot easier.

I don't know how you found time to record your own album while raising two kids (my 3 year old son takes up nearly all my time it seems like), but I've enjoyed listening to it and reading your wife's book.

[CalebJ]

I'll bet! Which hundred did you do?

[ScottS]

I like the slackpack description more than hybrid. Funny how I never considered that.

[fiddlehead]

Interesting discussion.
But there's one more elephant in the room that I don't see discussed: LUCK!

Luck with the weather (temps in PA in July range from 23 deg to 110 deg F ) (which one would you rather hike in, or have the fastest time)
Luck with your support crew: breakdowns, getting lost, not finding the medicine or food you crave
Luck with equipment: shoes fall apart in PA, 9 miles from the next support?
Luck with timing: support, people waiting in line to filter water at a spring, finding a campsite when you need one, or even a parking spot close to the trail for supportt.

I seem to remember on Karl Metzger's first attempt, he started with something like 7 days of heavy rain.
Couldn't even ford Big Wilson or one of the Maine fords I believe. He ended up with athletes foot from the constant water and ended up starting over if I remember correctly.

Not sure if this is true but isn't this year hotter than average in New England? Much hotter? THAT can make a huge difference IMO.

2 years ago, there was quite a big snowstorm in CO in June. It stopped a lot of thru-hikers that year who had to change plans and gear and created much slower than normal times through the Wiminuche, San Juan NF, etc.
This year, there are fires in the same area so, things get closed.
What would happen to a FKT attempt if there are fires or floods and the trail gets closed in some sections? If nothing else, I'm sure it would be demoralizing.
And of course: getting lost.

I imagine Stringbean had some luck. And of course massive planning that all worked out.

One year I hiked the AT and we had an 11 day stretch of rain and water was bubbling out of the ground everywhere (95 I believe it was)

[brew]

Mohican in Ohio

[matthew.d.kirk]

An analogy has been drawn between climbing and FKT hikes as aid : free :: supported : self-supported. While on a family vacation to escape the FL heat and humidity, we've been listening to a book on CD by climber Tommy Caldwell called "The Push." Caldwell describes speed-climbing in his book as often assuming a hybridized form of aid and free, that the best speed climbers are often the ones proficient in both styles.

Similarly, it makes sense to me that the most successful attempt at an overall FKT on the AT would be by someone proficient in both supported and self-supported styles. At least I'd like to think that runners with backgrounds in backpacking still enjoy an advantage. Maybe that's just my bias.
Nice to see Stringbean coming out and supporting Harvey. Hopefully Harvey can enjoy the beauty of the North Woods in spite of his suffering.

[royalusa]

.... And we had trail yoga Warren Doyle giving us advice literally at every turn ...

I always wondered about the decision to have have Jen cross the Kennebec without the aid of the canoe. Was there 'inside' info from Warren Doyle about the scheduling of releasing water that made such an action safer? I believe many have died from such a unassisted crossing.

[George]

I believe many have died from such a unassisted crossing.

no, one person died - but people die daily crossing roads, we need boy scouts to assist hikers crossing busy roads

[brew]

She got there around 5:45am and had to wait 2.5-3 hours for the water to go down so we went to northern outdoors for breakfast and came back. It was pretty clear the level was too high when we got there but she wouldn’t have known where to cross without warren showing her. It was upstream 50-75 yards and the current was crazy strong. She had to focus to keep her feet under her but she just really wanted to do it so that’s what we did. My favorite photo from that hike was of her and warren fording. They look hard core.

[D2maine]

2 have died

there is only a partial schedule(to aid the white water rafting business mostly)
releases can and do come at any time of day or season based solely on the economics and flood conditions of the upstream dams
once released the river rises faster than a hiker can cross and comes with an increase in the speed of the current
nobo hikers do not see the real depth of the river until about half way across, its deepest near the east bank (trail north) side

now back to the excellent fkt discussion i am sure Brew is not going to get sucked into a troll about fording...

[D2maine]

2 have died

there is only a partial schedule(to aid the white water rafting business mostly)
releases can and do come at any time of day or season based solely on the economics and flood conditions of the upstream dams
once released the river rises faster than a hiker can cross and comes with an increase in the speed of the current
nobo hikers do not see the real depth of the river until about half way across, its deepest near the east bank (trail north) side

now back to the excellent fkt discussion i am sure Brew is not going to get sucked into a troll about fording...