Bear attack

[longshank]

Kirk:

I'll respond to your semi-literate, inordianately stupid comments later. I don't have the time or the leisure right now....I'm hiking, and your pudgy citified ass is fno doubt flounced behind a desk at home or more likely at work, and can sound off whenever you wish. I don't have that option.

(Incidentally, what I SAID (quite awhile ago by the way) was that bear attacks in the East were extraordinarily rare, and almost never occur. And guess what? This is still true. The fact that one just took place doesn't change this.....there have been almost NO bear fatalities in the East in the past 50 years, and recent developments doesn't mean things have changed.....if Kirk seems to think this week's bizarre incident means that the woods are filled with legions of homicidal bears, well, he's delusional, and he should stay in Brooklyn with his fears).

The chances of a bear attack on or near the A.T were and STILL ARE minimal. Extremely minimal. Got that, Kirk? If you'd actually spent any real time on the A.T., of course, you'd know this...but you haven't, right? Care to admit it?

What happened is obviously a tragedy, and a very rare one.

If Kirk wants to score Intenet points off of a child's death, he can have at it.

The fact remains thus: There have been a minute (that means really small, Kirk) number of bear attacks on human beings in the East in the last seventy years. Repeat, a minute ammount. On the A.T., nothing....zip, nada, nothing, OK?

One has a greater risk of being attacked in one's home, school, or workplace than of being attacked by a bear on the A.T. Wine stewards or waiters at cheesy New York restaurants have a greater chance of encountering violence than hikers on the A.T...... but then, one would have to get out of New York to realize this. Wanna tell us about something you know about, Kirk?

Kirk's hand-wringing and fear-mongering is wrong, ill-informed, and butt-ignorant. He doesn't know jack-diddly about the Appalachial Trail.

Geez, enough. I'm hiking right now....I don't have the time or leisure to deal with this Internet bull****. Fire away, Kirk, it'll be a few days till I can get back to you (I'm hiking, sonny; you're more than likely at a computer at work in the upstairs office cheating on your employer).

What happened was a crazy, freak episode. If Kirk wants to pretend otherwise, he's merely proving he knows less know less about the Trail than we've been led to believe.

Bye, Kirk. Hope city life is treating you well.

When you wanna talk about reality in the hill country, why not come out and see it for yourself sometime, OK?

Meantime, stay in the city and be afraid.

Fear becomes you.

I find it very interesting that you seem to know the comings and goings of someone, some people, even, that you have never met. If your highness would step out of the over-inflated, ego-addled royal hot air balloon that your brain calls home, then procede to dislodge it from your anal orifice, perhaps you might have something to say that was worth listening to. Just because you seem to have acquired some sort of minor niche celebrity does not make you a bear behavioralist (which is abundantly clear from your comments on the subject), nor does it bestow upon you some innate knowledge of of the level of experience those beside your self have accquired. You really think that you know it all, don't you? I think it would be of timely benefit to your character as percieved by others if you stoppped berating people and painting them as idiots for disagreeing with you. And I would think you would be less inclined to bash people who live in a city whilst enrobed in a moniker such as "Baltimore Jack". I wasn't aware that the great city of Baltimore had a backcountry. And you can call my retaurant cheesy once you've saved enough rainy day pennies (it might take you awhile, Jack...we don't accept barter as a form of currency, so leave your hogs and firstborn daughter at home.) to actually afford to eat there and do.

[longshank]

All's well, Sly.....knee is behaving much better than expected, and no Philistine bears bent on murder, rapine, or pillage.

Happily, no pussified Brooklynite weekenders either, and their assorted bleating and weeping trail terrors. Life's too short. Actually, would prefer the risks of priodic bear encounters over nervous, twitchy New Yorkers.

The bears at least shut the f*** up after you shoo them away.

Happy Easter, see you at Trail's end.

Come to brooklyn and I'll show you how pussified we are here. "Pussified brooklynite" is an oxymoron. Or maybe you are. Or maybe just a moron.

[Panzer1]

I don't know, she was mauled by a bear when I was 5. She was unarmed.

Good answer!!!!

Panzer

[bulldog49]

Come to brooklyn and I'll show you how pussified we are here. "Pussified brooklynite" is an oxymoron. Or maybe you are. Or maybe just a moron.

Now there is an intelligent retort, (for a 6th grader). Learn that from your uncle/dad and aunt/mom shanks?

[Pacific Tortuga]

[quote=longshank] (it might take you awhile, Jack...we don't accept barter as a form of currency, so leave your hogs and firstborn daughter at home.)

Least we forget the family attacked lost their FIRSTBORN daughter. What has happened to the respect and integrity of a life,human or of the natural world? Imbrace your diifferances with the class of our community because if we can't do it here, God Bless America.

[KirkMcquest]

Good answer!!!!

Panzer

I was overcome with emotion when the memory resurfaced.

If only she had been carrying a FIREARM or BEARSPRAY, things might have been different.

[leeki pole]

I was overcome with emotion when the memory resurfaced.

If only she had been carrying a FIREARM or BEARSPRAY, things might have been different.

My wife never goes in the woods without some kind of defense. Of course, because we're just Mississippi rednecks, she can shoot the x-ring out of a 100 yard target with open sights. Forewarned, be forearmed. And that's why we've been happily married for a LONG time (see x-ring comment)!

[Pacific Tortuga]

My wife never goes in the woods without some kind of defense. Of course, because we're just Mississippi rednecks, she can shoot the x-ring out of a 100 yard target with open sights. Forewarned, be forearmed. And that's why we've been happily married for a LONG time (see x-ring comment)!

Thats just the old say'in "a family that shoots together stays together" of course thats not my kind of shot,cheers

[JLB]

Yes, I know black bears and grizzlies are different. Black bears attack more often.

This is pure BS, where did you come up with this.

Let me educate you:

There are far more black bears that come in contact with humans than grizzlies.

Do the math, and you will understand why black bears attack more often.

There is also this:

RISKS FROM GRIZZLY VERSUS BLACK BEARS
Stephen Herrero is professor emeritus of environmental science at the University of Calgary. He has done research on bear ecology, behavior, conservation, and attacks for over 30 years. He is author of the classic book, “Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance”.

Stephen Herrero: “Over the past 33 years, I’ve studied serious and fatal injuries inflicted by bears to people throughout North America. The data clearly show that although bear attacks are rare, grizzly bears are more dangerous than black bears. Most serious and fatal grizzly bear attacks are defensive, while such attacks by black bears are typically predacious. Your response to a bear encounter shouldn’t just depend on whether it’s a black or a grizzly bear but on the circumstances and the bears behavior.”

http://www.bearinfo.org/bearsafetysc...0BLACK%20BEARS

"Predacious" means this:

predacious
adj 1: hunting and killing other animals for food [syn: predaceous]

Go look it up.

I could care less if you carry a gun or whatever it takes to keep you out from under your bed.

That's good, but I don't need your validation.

The simple fact is that the bear was being harassed prior to the attack. Another group has admitted to doing so. The simple fact is a gun was not needed just some simple intelligence. Adding one more danger to a group of fools does not help anything.

A gun was needed, as a gun is what drove the bear away, possibly saving more lives.

The fact that some idiot was harrassing the bear does not negate the fact that once the bear decided to attack, then the anti-gun solution was obsolete.

Let's all learn from this lesson, and take steps to save our selves, our family members, and the innocent bears that are now being killed.

[JLB]

[quote=Pacific Tortuga]

No, smart person.

Let's go over the facts again:

The bear attacked,a human, even though most of the people on this board insist that they never attack us.

The bear killed a little girl, and mauled a little boy, when the tactics espoused by the gun-haters on this board were used. (The bear is more scared of you, pick up a rock or stick, blah blah blah...)

Gun-haters, my bass just hope you didn't go to the 'Cheney Scool of Shooting' and not wing me.... make it a clean shot.

It's spelled "school".

If you are going to attempt to make fun of someone, at least make sure you can spell the words correctly.

As for not "winging you", it's very simple:

Behave yourself, and you won't ever find yourself in a situation where you will need to be shot. That way everybody is happy.

[JLB]

To those who carry weapons to defend themselves in the woods I say good for you. For those who carry bearspray, good for you. For those of you who rely on these measures as your best defence against a bear encounter, educate yourselves in proven strategies to avoid problem situations. Only then will you truly have a complete strategy in place. IMHO if you have to use the weapon or spray to protect yourself against a bear, then you have failed to take measures to avoid the confrontation in the first place. This is of course in regards to East Coast black bear territory. I clicked on the link after this comment and it hardly made me feel more vulnerable today than back in 1981 in regards to black bear attacks. Considering that the figure is in regards to all bear attacks in all of North America, I would say it actually makes me feel less vulnerable. People often talk about how safe they feel in their small town, the AT is WAY more safe than that. Too much grandstanding going on about something that is about a personal comfort zone.

The facts are these:

Bears don't know if they are on the AT, or not.

There is no signed truce between bears and hikers that I am aware of.

Urban sprawl, and the reduction of bear hunting has created larger bear populations in continually shrinking habitats.

It's no suprise that bear attacks are up.

[Blue Jay]

JBL your "quote" said nothing about black bears attacking more often than Grizzlies. There has never been a study or statistics of any kind that indicate that they do because it is laughable (as are you).
Read your own post please. Baltimore Jack and I live in areas where black bears live. Often there are bears in my back yard. I have hiked and camped all my life in areas where bears live. I've seen hundreds of them. The only bears you see in Florida are on the bed you hide under. Again, if you want to live in fear and carry your little gun around go ahead.

[JLB]

How on earth do you suppose that a mother with 2 small children can be "properly armed"? How can she care for 2 small children and at the same time have a loaded gun in her possession?

How is it that you think that everybody is supposed to be able to defend themselves? Most people rely on others to defend them.

Panzer

My wife seems to manage just fine.

When I am around, she relies on me, but when I'm not there, the burden of protecting the kids falls on her.

When she isn't there, then my son takes up the responsibility, as a last resort. He's been shooting since he was 5 years old, and has been taught proper safety rules, and shooting techniques.

http://www.fototime.com/{83EFA10F-20...F}/picture.JPG

http://www.fototime.com/{55691851-B2...F}/picture.JPG

That's his Smith & Wesson Model 34 .22 revolver but he regularly shoots my Model 66 .357 magnum, and is quite proficient with it.

[JLB]

JBL your "quote" said nothing about black bears attacking more often than Grizzlies. There has never been a study or statistics of any kind that indicate that they do because it is laughable (as are you).
Read your own post please. Baltimore Jack and I live in areas where black bears live. Often there are bears in my back yard. I have hiked and camped all my life in areas where bears live. I've seen hundreds of them. The only bears you see in Florida are on the bed you hide under. Again, if you want to live in fear and carry your little gun around go ahead.

Again, let me educate you:

Take a look at this picture.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/images/883040423

We had 143 black bears that were struck and killed by cars in 2004. That's not total bears, but just those that wandered onto the highway. I see bears all of the time when I camp in Florida, so you need to read up.

[JLB]

JBL your "quote" said nothing about black bears attacking more often than Grizzlies. There has never been a study or statistics of any kind that indicate that they do because it is laughable (as are you).

Except for this study, you mean?

Experts revisit advice on bear attacks
Don’t play dead, they say; doing so can get you killed




By Dru Sefton
NEWHOUSE NEWS SERVICE


OCT. 1 — When the grizzly charged, Patricia Van Tighem did what hikers
have always been told to do. First, she scampered up a tree. The bear batted
her down. Then she lay still on the ground, playing dead. The bear began
gnawing on her face, ripping skin and muscle from her skull. Van Tighem
finally did something she wasn’t supposed to do: She reached up and poked the
bear in the nose. The bear retreated.



“STAYING STILL didn’t work,” said Van Tighem, whose new book, “The Bear’s
Embrace,” details the grueling 20-year physical and mental aftermath of the
attack on her and her husband. “If I kept playing dead, I would have been
dead.”
The common advice always has been — and still is — that if you’re
threatened by a grizzly, play dead; if you’re threatened by a black bear,
fight back. But a summer of attacks involving not only fierce grizzlies but
also normally docile black bears has some experts questioning those
approaches.
The issue becomes more important as bear populations increase and
human-bear conflicts, the term that researchers use for these sometimes
violent interactions, become less rare.

Gee, that's just what I just said......

continued....

In late May, a black bear preyed upon hiker Glenda Ann Bradley about

10 miles outside Gatlinburg, Tenn. It was the first recorded black bear
fatality in the history of the Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
Then, early in July, Canadian biathlete Mary Beth Miller was killed by
a black bear outside Quebec City.
After that, human-bear conflicts made news all summer:
Black bears clawed or bit four Boy Scouts in July at the Philmont Scout
Ranch in northeastern New Mexico.
In August, two backpackers were charged by a bear of undetermined species in
Glacier National Park in Montana. One was bitten on the thighs and hips.
Also in August, a Calgary, Alberta, man was mauled by a grizzly in the
Kananaskis Country of Canada’s Rockies. It was the second incident in 12
hours; those were the first attacks there in 22 years.
In September, attacks have been reported in Clam Falls, Wis.; Hoonah,
Alaska; Grand Junction, Colo.; Anchorage; McLeod Lake, British Columbia; and
Yellowstone National Park.
“Conflict is increasing all over,” said Gary Shelton, who has studied
bears for 35 years and written two books considered to be the seminal works
on bear aggression. “What’s happening is bear attacks are taking place where
they haven’t before, there’s a higher level of fatalities, and there are
more deadly attacks by black bears.”

http://www.bears.org/pipermail/bearf...er/000447.html

[Pacific Tortuga]

[quote=JLB]

It's spelled "school".

If you are going to attempt to make fun of someone, at least make sure you can spell the words correctly.

As for not "winging you", it's very simple:

Behave yourself, and you won't ever find yourself in a situation where you will need to be shot. That way everybody is happy.

Now I'm scared, hate to rile you up 'you' too smart, now go and ..... no I'm not going to go there. "Behave yourself" I know that wasn't a threat, again your too smart for that. Thanks for the edit heads up and the day you ....... WHAT A CROCK. I do agree with some of your statements just dont know why you have to act like the north end of a mule walking south.

[ed bell]

The facts are these:

Bears don't know if they are on the AT, or not.

There is no signed truce between bears and hikers that I am aware of.

Urban sprawl, and the reduction of bear hunting has created larger bear populations in continually shrinking habitats.

It's no suprise that bear attacks are up.

C'mon JLB everyone knows bears don't care where they are, and a black bear is capable of attack. What are you trying to tell me? My comment you replied to doesn't contradict anything here. Hell, backcountry and National park usage surely has more than doubled since 1950, so I guess bear attacks are actually declining relative to usage. I don't have a stat on this but I doubt the GSMNP had 8 million visitors in 1950. All I was saying in my post is that there are many strategies to prevent a bear encounter from turning ugly or from even occuring at all. I want everyone to be safe, that's all I care about. I have never wanted to get inside peoples packs and tell them what to carry or not carry. I called your post out because the article link you included in your previous post did not seem to validate your remarks. I am left wondering if you actually read it. Oh, and I realize that the CNN article you included in your post was originally posted by someone else. One last thought, black bears and hikers/backpackers are not in a relationship that I would consider war. Maybe you do, but millions upon millions of backcountry visitors enjoy the woods without this mindset, and this does not mean I view a bear as a zero threat. Hope this clears up your misunderstanding of my post.

[JLB]

[quote=Pacific Tortuga]

Now I'm scared, hate to rile you up 'you' too smart, now go and ..... no I'm not going to go there. "Behave yourself" I know that wasn't a threat, again your too smart for that. Thanks for the edit heads up and the day you ....... WHAT A CROCK. I do agree with some of your statements just dont know why you have to act like the north end of a mule walking south.

It wasn't a threat at all. If you, or anyone else never attempts to do me, or any of my family members harm, then you will never have any problem with me.

Thanks for the edit heads up and the day you ....... WHAT A CROCK.

That statement makes no sense. Explain.

[JLB]

C'mon JLB everyone knows bears don't care where they are, and a black bear is capable of attack. What are you trying to tell me? My comment you replied to doesn't contradict anything here. Hell, backcountry and National park usage surely has more than doubled since 1950, so I guess bear attacks are actually declining relative to usage. I don't have a stat on this but I doubt the GSMNP had 8 million visitors in 1950. All I was saying in my post is that there are many strategies to prevent a bear encounter from turning ugly or from even occuring at all. I want everyone to be safe, that's all I care about. I have never wanted to get inside peoples packs and tell them what to carry or not carry. I called your post out because the article link you included in your previous post did not seem to validate your remarks. I am left wondering if you actually read it. Oh, and I realize that the CNN article you included in your post was originally posted by someone else. One last thought, black bears and hikers/backpackers are not in a relationship that I would consider war. Maybe you do, but millions upon millions of backcountry visitors enjoy the woods without this mindset, and this does not mean I view a bear as a zero threat. Hope this clears up your misunderstanding of my post.

I think you misunderstood me first.

I did not intend that black bears are more aggressive than grizzlies, but that you are far more likely to be attacked by a blacky, due to the number of them.

The naturalist above, that I quoted, does point out that black bears are more predacious than grizzlies, who tend to attack to protect something. Black bears attack to hunt, on occassion.

I'm not at war with bears, but until bears turn in their teeth and claws, and disarm themselves, I'll continue to try and even the odds, should a bear declare war on me.

[Blue Jay]

Except for this study, you mean?

That's not a study, moron, it's an article. Have you graduated from second grade yet?