Chain Smokers on the trail...or Cellphones?

[Tinker]

I smoked up to three packs a day between the ages of 14 and 28. I quit just before I got married. My 25th anniversary is coming up on July 11.

There is hope, but you have to imagine that the freedom from smoking is worth more than the temporal gratification. The same can be said for many things in life - marijuana (been there, too), pornography, etc, etc, etc.

FWIW, ex smokers ARE the worst when it comes to being around current smokers. We know where it can lead. My father died of emphyzema at the age of 75. I'm sure he could've lived much longer had he not smoked.

[bearbait2k4]

My comments were based on years of personal observation which began long before you could spell "internet." If sharing observations constitutes "categorizing and stereotyping," so be it. The addictive nature of nicotine is duly acknowedged. How are addictions overcome, if not through discipline? Why do some people resist the temptation to become addicted to start with and some don't?

I think that observing smokers and their habits for nearly thirty years can qualify my opinion on the subject, so I would thank you to not condescend me like that.

If you were merely sharing observations, rather than calling the lot of smokers lazy, then it likely wouldn't be viewed as categorizing and stereotyping. That addiction can be the most difficult addiction to break, so I would certainly not attribute one's failure at breaking the nicotene addiction to laziness and a lack of discpline. In addition to that, some people may not be trying to quit. They may like to smoke, as a recreational habit. Are these people lazy, as well? Do they lack discipline, due to their enjoyment of a habit that you feel only slobs or slackers partake in? Seriously - you have to possess a certain amount of discipline if you're out hiking the trail, regardless of what your habits are.

That generalization was just uncalled for, and anyone that has the slightest hint of intelligence should know for what reason.

Anyway, all that I know is that, during 2 years I was on and off the trail, I saw a gradual increase of trash being left behind in fire rings and shelters, even thought the number of hikers decreased between those 2 years. More people are ignoring the LNT philosophy every year, and that is something I would consider to be a problem. It's not just smokers, cell-phone users, yellow-blazers, blue-blazers, weekend warriors...but it's people from every group out there. It is a huge problem.

What can be done about it, and what I have seen to be most effective, is direct confrontation with offending characters. If you see someone leaving trash behind, say something. There's no need to necessarily get rude to the person, but taking a proactive stance is certainly going to accomplish more than bitching and moaning on a message board.

[sliderule]

If you were merely sharing observations, rather than calling the lot of smokers lazy, then it likely wouldn't be viewed as categorizing and stereotyping.

It is interesting, bearbait2k4, that you find it necessary and appropriate to attribute to me statements that I never made. That's not something I would have expected from a 28 year-old with nearly 30 years of experience, especially when viewed in the context of your earlier admonition regarding "untrue statements" and "You should really watch what you say... ."

[QHShowoman]

FWIW, ex smokers ARE the worst when it comes to being around current smokers. We know where it can lead. My father died of emphyzema at the age of 75. I'm sure he could've lived much longer had he not smoked.

Sorry to hear that, Tink. My dad is 71, and has less than 15% lung capacity solely due to smoking. When he was first diagnosed with Emphysema, he continued to smoke until he went into respiratory arrest. He spent days intubated in the ICU and we thought for sure he would die. He pulled through and I wish I could say he's doing better, but he really isn't. Just walking to the bathroom tires him out, so he basically lays around wasting away. It's very sad.

[bearbait2k4]

It is interesting, bearbait2k4, that you find it necessary and appropriate to attribute to me statements that I never made. That's not something I would have expected from a 28 year-old with nearly 30 years of experience, especially when viewed in the context of your earlier admonition regarding "untrue statements" and "You should really watch what you say... ."

Ya, I've lived with smokers all my life, so do the math. Now, what are you trying to disparage?

What you essentially did was attribute a single-statement generalization to a large group of people, which is simply something that shouldn't be done. Anyone who has been on the trail for even the smallest period of time should be able to see that the world is made of truly unique human beings, and there is not one group that you can properly singularly attribute one generalization to. The statement you made, in regards to lacking discipline, sounds like a description of a lazy person, in my opinion - something you didn't exactly refute, by the way, so I'm not sure where your argument of claiming you said anything you didn't comes from.

I'm not saying that you have to say you're wrong for judging people that way, even though you are. But, come on....continuing to carry on and defend that it's okay to stereotype and generalize people - that's just beginning to get ridiculous.

[sliderule]

I'm not saying that you have to say you're wrong for judging people that way, even though you are. But, come on....continuing to carry on and defend that it's okay to stereotype and generalize people - that's just beginning to get ridiculous.

Would I be stereotyping if I suggested that smokers throw more cigarette butts on the ground than nonsmokers? Would that be an unfair generalization?

[Wonder]

I have a confession...........
Proir to being an AT hiker.....I was a butt thrower. It took me ONE day on the trail to see what a me it really makes. I had hiked ou twith rolling tobacco, but when I saw butts on the ground......around such beauty....it saddened me. I've been "off trail" for 5 weeks now, and I am reformed. Field strip, and in my pocket. If I'm going to be a smoker.....I"ll have to suffer the the badge of stink. Though I still smoke.....I have been on everyone I know about the butts. It's harder to convince people in the city. BUt I"m trying...........

[Ridge]

Wish every smoker would pack-out the butts. Some of the smokers that don't throw butts out one at a time save'em up in an ash tray and dump them at the Red Light Curbing. PIGS

[Time To Fly 97]

Used cigarette buts just stink and carrying them out almost guaratees that the smell will pervade your gear as well... unless you plan ahead. I use one of those plastic film canisters to carry out the buts. Since these are small and kind of a pain to dig for I end up smoking less.

Also, I find that when I am smoking (off and on) I crave a smoke when I feel the need for a quick energy boost. What I have found is that most times, I need an energy boost because I am dehydrated, hungry, tired or other totally natural reasons. I really make an effort when I crave a cigarette to ask myself if a cigarette is really what I need. Most times it is not and I can talk myself out of a smoke most times. Other times, I just want to get the beneficial results from smoking...like increasing lung capacity. ; )

The previous post about the chain smoking hiker is sketchy. A series of cigarettes was probably the last thing that he/she needed. It probably made the situation worse, requiring more cigarettes to boost energy levels. I hope the trail teaches "grasshopper" the wisdom of the smokes.

TTF

[Alligator]

Here's an easy way to handle litter. I keep a ziplock handy throughout the day, either in my pocket, hip belt, or top lid. Eat a candy bar, the corner and wrapper goes in. Use a bandaid, the strips and paper go in. Smoke a cigarette, the roach/butt goes in. If your trash bag is buried, there is less incentive to do the right thing. The ziplock will prevent the smell from getting everywhere.

I keep my pouch of tobacco in a ziplock, so putting a film canister in there might be a good idea for some too. IMO, however, film canisters tend to invite unwanted scrutiny. Let's see, I would have a pouch of tobacco, a rolling mat, rolling papers, and a film canister ...

[Time To Fly 97]

Hey Gator,

It is actually the tupperware container that gets the scrutiny. LOL!

[bearbait2k4]

Would I be stereotyping if I suggested that smokers throw more cigarette butts on the ground than nonsmokers? Would that be an unfair generalization?

Being a smartA-- is not going to make stereotyping right.

[Lone Wolf]

Something I noticed on my hike this month was the number of chainsmoking thruhikers who kept leaving the their filtered butts in the fire pits and on the trail. One afternoon I watched a hiker throw 5 butts into one fire pit within a span of 20 minutes. Personally neither cellphones or butts bother me, but from an environmental standpoint I gotta say filtered butts hurt the trail far more than someone yapping on their phone. Anyone else noticed this smoking trend?

Folks if you're gonna smoke...pack your butts out! or don't smoke filtered cigs!

Smokers are a helluva lot more inconsiderate than cell phone users. Most cell users will walk away from others at shelters, overlooks, mountaintops, etc. Smokers light up wherever they want. Especially true in shelters. I was in the Smokys 6 years ago staying in a shelter. There was ten of us. 8 of 10 were smokers. It was early afternoon and pouring buckets. All the smokers were smoking and it was really bothering one girl who wasn't a smoker. She was afraid to say anything so I did. I asked if they would go outside the shelter to smoke. I guy had a major problem with that and was willing to fight me over it. I laughed at him, berated him in front of everyone then packed my stuff and left in the rain. Smokers suck.

[dreamhiker]

I am a smoker and last week while BP in southern Vermont I went out in the rain to smoke so all smokers are not inconsiderate. there where some people that where not smokers but where incosiderate by using half the shelter space to spreed out all there gear. So there are inconsiderate people who smoke and some who don't smoke. #@$! holes come in all forms.
DreamHiker

[Ender]

#@$! holes come in all forms.[DreamHiker

Ain't that the darn truth.

[Ridge]

It's raining, the shelter is full and there this guy with a cell-phone to the ear trying to talk and smoke a cigarette at the same time and looking for his roaming dog. He's up for "Mr Considerate Hiker of the Month" !!

[Footslogger]

It's raining, the shelter is full and there this guy with a cell-phone to the ear trying to talk and smoke a cigarette at the same time and looking for his roaming dog. He's up for "Mr Considerate Hiker of the Month" !!

===========================
True Multi-Tasker ...

'Slogger

[StrixVaria]

I would be willing to venture that sliderule is one of those born again Christian types who enjoys nothing so much as to find some level of moral superiority from which to cast judgment on anyone readily at hand.<o></o>
It seems that there are a large number of people who smoke – for a variety of reasons. Some of those who smoke are inconsiderate buttheads. There are also inconsiderate buttheads who do not smoke and who leave a great deal of trash on trail. Others simply put the loudest pipes they can find on their motorcycles and go roaring through mountain roads – disturbing the illusion of wilderness for everyone within a four mile radius of their passing. <o></o>
I’ve found that it’s probably not a good idea to make rash generalizations about any single group of people except Baptists – who should, by and large, be fed to lions, tigers and bears.

[Wonder]

I would be willing to venture that sliderule is one of those born again Christian types who enjoys nothing so much as to find some level of moral superiority from which to cast judgment on anyone readily at hand.<O></O>
It seems that there are a large number of people who smoke – for a variety of reasons. Some of those who smoke are inconsiderate buttheads. There are also inconsiderate buttheads who do not smoke and who leave a great deal of trash on trail. Others simply put the loudest pipes they can find on their motorcycles and go roaring through mountain roads – disturbing the illusion of wilderness for everyone within a four mile radius of their passing. <O></O>
I’ve found that it’s probably not a good idea to make rash generalizations about any single group of people except Baptists – who should, by and large, be fed to lions, tigers and bears.

I can't wait to see where people go with this..............

[sliderule]

Being a smartA-- is not going to make stereotyping right.

So stereotyping is wrong, but namecalling is acceptable?

What, exactly, makes stereotyping wrong? Has the First Amendment been amended? Is there a new Eleventh Commandment that I haven't heard about?