Chain Smokers on the trail...or Cellphones?

[Ridge]

I would be willing to venture that sliderule is one of those born again Christian types who enjoys nothing so much as to find some level of moral superiority from which to cast judgment on anyone readily at hand.<O></O>
It seems that there are a large number of people who smoke – for a variety of reasons. Some of those who smoke are inconsiderate buttheads. There are also inconsiderate buttheads who do not smoke and who leave a great deal of trash on trail. Others simply put the loudest pipes they can find on their motorcycles and go roaring through mountain roads – disturbing the illusion of wilderness for everyone within a four mile radius of their passing. <O></O>
I’ve found that it’s probably not a good idea to make rash generalizations about any single group of people except Baptists – who should, by and large, be fed to lions, tigers and bears.

But don't you just love nature, despite what it did to you?

[sliderule]

I would be willing to venture that sliderule is one of those born again Christian types who enjoys nothing so much as to find some level of moral superiority from which to cast judgment on anyone readily at hand.<O></O>

Welcome to the club, Strix. Maybe we can get together and form SA. Stereotypers Anonymous!!!

[StrixVaria]

My apologies to all of the lion, tiger and bear lovers on this forum. It has recently come to my attention that Baptists are second only to Conservative Republicans in toxicity to wildlife and to Nature in general. I must, therefore, retract my statement that Baptists should be fed to bears. As much as it would warm my heart to see a resumption of martyrdom among Christians through this medium, it is not worth the risk to innocent wildlife.<o></o>
You may now resume your bashing of smokers.<o></o>

[sliderule]

I would be willing to venture that sliderule is one of those born again Christian types .

Let me clue you in on something, Steve. It does not take a religious fanatic to despise smoking. Smoking is such a vile, stinking and deadly habit that a very ordinary person can be quite capable of finding it repulsive. No "moral superiority" is required.

All of the rubbish about stereotyping, generalizing and passing judgement is little more than a smokescreen intended to obscure the real issue. If the trail is being littered with cigarette butts, where are they coming from? Are they falling from the trees? Are they being dropped by nonsmokers? Or are they being thrown down by smokers who lack the motivation to do the right thing? I am fairly certain that those questions can be answered without generalizing, stereotyping or passing judgement.

[mweinstone]

ill say it again. carrying a full trash bag is a badge of honor and having no trash bag tells everyone you suck.

[ed bell]

ill say it again. carrying a full trash bag is a badge of honor and having no trash bag tells everyone you suck.

Wisdom in the face of chaos. Good post Mr. M.W.

[bearbait2k4]

Let me clue you in on something, Steve. It does not take a religious fanatic to despise smoking. Smoking is such a vile, stinking and deadly habit that a very ordinary person can be quite capable of finding it repulsive. No "moral superiority" is required.

All of the rubbish about stereotyping, generalizing and passing judgement is little more than a smokescreen intended to obscure the real issue. If the trail is being littered with cigarette butts, where are they coming from? Are they falling from the trees? Are they being dropped by nonsmokers? Or are they being thrown down by smokers who lack the motivation to do the right thing? I am fairly certain that those questions can be answered without generalizing, stereotyping or passing judgement.

Nobody, sliderule, has questioned who is littering the cigarettes on the trail. I think I have touched on that in at least 2 posts, so I'm not sure where the smokescreen is that you're talking about.

What I have questioned, not really questioned, but have pointed out, is that generalizing a group the way you did is not right. By calling you a smartA--, I was responding to what I see as a sarcastic response that has nothing to do with stereotyping, and you know it. So, maybe I should refine myself and instead ask you if that was simply a rhetorical question.

Although you did do something to substantiate what I said, I still doubt that every smoker has done the same to substantiate judgement, as such, from you.

But, let's get back to the apparent smokescreen, and try to make the thread productive once again - what do you think would be a positive action to end littering on the trail? You can see my previous posts for my response on that.

[Lone Wolf]

Smokers don't care about living. Same as gays who have unprotected sex. The info is out there. They CHOOSE to ignore it. Oh well.

[Happy]

Just smoke cigars and don't inhale, no filters to screw up the trail, win, win, win!

[Catsgoing]

Thank you for posting about smoking and cigarette butts.

I hate to see cigarette butts any place on Mother Earth.

I live in Venice, Florida and our beaches are full of cigarette butts.

Please if you Smoke Pack your butts out with you..

Please for the future generation.
(My Grandson)

Just Do It!

[mambo_tango]

My apologies to all of the lion, tiger and bear lovers on this forum. It has recently come to my attention that Baptists are second only to Conservative Republicans in toxicity to wildlife and to Nature in general.

As a Baptist I would like to say to you 'try to say that to my face, fool.' Of course there might be a chance that if you do I might be forced to convert you.....we're dangerous like that. What I really want to say is don't tell me what I think...just because I am baptist doesn't mean that I fall into your definition. Since you aren't baptist should I assume you that you have no morals or ethics? Because I have had bad experiences with non-baptists when I was growing up and now I think that you are all evil . Wait...does that sound a tad ridiculous? I'm sorry....

[Tinker]

As a Baptist I would like to say to you 'try to say that to my face, fool.' Of course there might be a chance that if you do I might be forced to convert you.....we're dangerous like that. What I really want to say is don't tell me what I think...just because I am baptist doesn't mean that I fall into your definition. Since you aren't baptist should I assume you that you have no morals or ethics? Because I have had bad experiences with non-baptists when I was growing up and now I think that you are all evil . Wait...does that sound a tad ridiculous? I'm sorry....

Sorry, friend, I couldn't picture my Jesus saying to anyone "try to say that to my face, fool".

Anti-Christian stereotypers are not without ammuntion, seeing as how few of my fellow brothers and sisters seem to know much about their faith, as they seem to spend more time in "the world" rather than in "the Word".

Peace was exemplified in "the Prince of Peace", Jesus.

Neither his supposed followers, nor his detractors, seem to be able to keep the peace when their beliefs or practices are under scrutiny.

[sliderule]

what do you think would be a positive action to end littering on the trail? You can see my previous posts for my response on that.

In an attempt to do something positive, I volunteered as an AT caretaker promoting LNT for two seasons. Would that count for anything?

[NICKTHEGREEK]

I never thought about this until you mentioned it and then I did some reading in my free time. You may want to clue those smokers in on some facts about those butts they leave in the fire:

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So by putting leaving those butts there they are introducing a poison which can leach out of the butts in the rain or be consumed by animals. Here is some information on toxicity:



So some math shows that if a small to medium sized animal is foraging for food scraps in a fire pit (not uncommon especially in heavy use campsites and shelters) 1 to 2 cigarette butts could be fatal to the animal.

Pack them in, pack them out.

That's just silly on so many levels. Tobacco grows naturally, decomposes and returns to the soil. If your independent research had any validity large sections of Maryland, Virginia, and the Carolinas would look like death valley, with neither plant nor animal life due to the toxins from tobacco.

If you have that much free time for independent research let us know if decomposing poision ivy makes a worm's ass itch too.

[dreamhiker]

thats just funny on so many levels

[Alligator]

That's just silly on so many levels. Tobacco grows naturally, decomposes and returns to the soil. If your independent research had any validity large sections of Maryland, Virginia, and the Carolinas would look like death valley, with neither plant nor animal life due to the toxins from tobacco.

If you have that much free time for independent research let us know if decomposing poision ivy makes a worm's ass itch too.

Nick, they are talking about the material in the filter, not the tobacco.

[crutch]

Wow......you people have too much time on your hands. How about we stop bashing on the smokers and the Baptists and just bash on anyone who litters in general? It's really quite plain and simple....if it didn't grow in the woods than it doesn't belong there.
I smoke and that's my choice.....however, you will not find my filters on the ground or in a fire pit. We've all heard this before....."pack it in pack it out".
This applies to everything that we bring into the wood with us.......I would no sooner throw my butts on the ground than I would a tuna packet (no pun intended L.W.) Just be responsible for yourself and if you see someone littering in any way, then use your voice rather than your keyboard and speak up.

[sliderule]

Nobody, sliderule, has questioned who is littering the cigarettes on the trail.

Now that we are in agreement about who is causing the problem, the next obvious question is "Why?"

Are the cigarette butts too slippery, so that they slide form the smokers' hands and fall on the ground?

Is the wind blowing the butts out of their mouths?

Or are smokers throwing their butts on the ground because they lack the discipline to pick them up and pack them out?

[sliderule]

How about we stop bashing on the smokers

I smoke and that's my choice.....

I bash smokers and that's my choice!!!

[eArThworm]

I'm not good with words, and though there have been many times I would have liked to confront someone politely about bad behavior/LNT issues in the woods, I never know what to say. Would someone like to take a stab at how a typical script would look? A POLITE script, please. ~~ eArThworm