winter thru hike

[Biloxi]

gator ..ok just checking seeing as how mattewski is trying to be a dick. I wasnt sure ..thx for reply

[LostInSpace]

Terrain-wise, it'll be fairly easy going til you get to Northern Virginia. You'll see some snow, mostly in mid-January to early March, but you'll have long stretches without it.

Be prepared for the unexpected, quirky weather. Although Jack is correct regarding the area north of Harper's Ferry, the President's Day weekend storm of February 16-17, 2003, dumped 2-3 feet on snow in this area with substantial drifting.

[Alligator]

gator ..ok just checking seeing as how mattewski is trying to be a dick. I wasnt sure ..thx for reply

No problem . He hasn't completed a thruhike either.

[weary]

Assuming you start your trip in October:

*You'll have ample time to climb Katahdin, but you probably don't
want to do it after the 15th. In fact, better to do it around the
9th or the 10th.
*It takes most folks 22-27 days to hike Maine
*It takes most folks 12-14 days to hike New Hampshire

I suspect Maine will be easier for you weather-wise than NH, though there are a few higher-altitude places (Whitecap, the Bigelow Range, esp. Mt. Avery; the Crockers; Sadddleback; etc. that could be interesting).

You will certainly run into cold weather in New Hampshire, and possibly, snow.
You'll be going thru the high peaks of the Presidential Range in mid-November.
Expect it to be winter there.

Keep in mind that by the time you get there, most of the AMC Huts will be closed for the season and you will NOT be able to count on them for meals, shelter, etc.

With adequate clothing and gear, you should be OK. A few ideas: ALWAYS carry something warm and dry to change into at the end of the day; never
let your long underwear get wet during the day (from either sweat or weather) if you're planning on sleeping in it at day's end. You might want to carry an extra set of long johns. Be sure your storm gear is top quality; consider carrying extra socks; bring a good hat, and make sure your gloves are both wind and waterproof. Some kind of wind/rain pant is probably a good idea, even if you don't normally wear these. Pack extra food when you leave towns in Maine and NH; protracted periods of bad weather may cause your mileage to go down, or you might have to shorten your hiking days because of bad weather. This means that certain stretches of Trail might take longer than you'd planned; therefore, you might neeed extra rations. Remember, there will NOT be many other hikers around to help if you run short. Absolutely carry current maps with you in case you need to get off the Trail in a hurry.

Things will get much easier in Vermont, tho in a few places (Killington or Stratton) it could get interesting. Vermont generally takes 10-12 days to traverse.

Once you get into southern new England (Mass. and Conn.) it'll get MUCH easier. It can be cold and wet there in late November/early December, but it'd be rare to see much snow.

Trerrain-wise, it'll be fairly easy going til you get to Northern Virginia. You'll see some snow, mostly in mid-January to early March, but you'll have long stretches without it.

Good news is that from mid October on, you'll ALWAYS have shelter space if you need it, at least til you get down South. Make sure you bring along plenty to read!

Things will get interesting again in the Mount Rogers area of Southwestern Virginia, and then again in the Roan Highlands, but it'll almost be spring by the time you get there; you should be fine.

The Smokies will be fine by the time you get there; assuming your trip takes seven months or so, it'll actually be pretty warm by the time you get there, so you probably won't encounter any of the cold weather problems most Northbounders do.

North Carolina and Georgia in April and May are wonderful, it's a great time to be down there.

A few last things to remember: When you get down South, don't ditch your winter gear too soon (it can snow on Mt. Rogers well into May); remember that a lot of hostels will be closed from October to February; at some point, most likely somewhere in SW Virginia or Tennessee, you'll start encountering Northbounders so don't take for granted you'll have shelter space; and lastly, whatever your budget is, add 25%, as you'll be taking some unexpected town/motel stops due to bad weather in the first 3 months of your trip.

Best of luck, maybe we'll see you in Hanover when you come thru.

Every thing Jack said is on the mark. I would only add that the most dangerous weather conditions that you are likely to encounter are freezing rains, which can drain the energy out of a hiker. One can survive minus zero easily -- even minus 30 -- providing you have adequate gear and are dry. It's almost impossible, however, to survive minus zero conditions while wet.

Don't be tempted to hike in freezing rains, at least when the nearest town is more than a few miles away.

Weary

[fiddlehead]

One more thing, when we did our SOBO starting in Oct, we followed deer season south. We hiked thru deer season in every state except NC and GA. We didn't have a problem with hunters although we wore orange and tied some orange ribbons to the back of our packs. Just so you know it will be upon you but it's not so dangerous. Beware of the 1st sat. in each state. That's when hordes of them are out there. Might be a good time to stay in town if that's the case. The hunters will ask you if you have seen any deer, we used to tell them, yes, back up the trail about 5 miles. Rarely would they go that far. anyway, feel free to ask away. Sure you must be prepared for snow. and ice. you will have an amazing experience that most hikers never have. I trust you are ready for ccccccccccooooooooolllllllddddddd! good luck

[Tramper Al]

Hi DonJuan,

I've hiked the AT through the New England states, but more importantly I have hiked all of the high summits of New England in calendar winter, including Katahdin, the Presidentials, etc.

I am really only considering what it will typically take to get through Maine, New Hampshire, and Vermont.

I'll agree with others that Jack's long list of advice is good, but I'd say it doesn't go nearly far enough. Minimal gear like the second pair of longjohns, spare socks, and rain pants? Not optional, not even close. You need to have dry clothes in reserve at all times, including mitts, hats, full face protection, etc. You mention a 0 degree bag, which I think might be adequate if it is synthetic, if you get through New England fast, and you are lucky.

It concerns me that you would consider even for a moment trying something like this without carrying a tent or other shelter. It makes me wonder how prepared you are for this, generally. I'm not being critical here, I'm genuinely concerned. What would be your plan, without shelter, when you get wet and then you get hurt? You would seriously consider risking your life to leave a 2-3 lb tent at home? I would not think so. You need to ask yourself if, due to injury, you can stop in any place at anytime and stay warm and survive (unitl rescue?) using only what is in your pack.

Now, if you don't get lucky, you will have to deal with some "deep" snow at some point. By deep, I mean enough to begin to posthole in, and on a little travelled route, that can be not much snow at all. Do you intend to carry snowshoes? In some cases the AT is part of a popular approach for peakbaggers in November and December, and you may get lucky with a consolidated base in some places. Other trail section are very infrequently used all winter long. Same thing with ice on some steep trails and above treeline. Will you have your crampons?

I am considered to be quite good at following white blazes in winter, but I'm telling you sometimes it can be tough. In open woods, especially when the snow depths gets up near blaze height, it can be a real challenge. i have encountered somewhat challenging trail finding on winter hikes on the AT in Baxter, on the Bigelows, between Sugarloaf and Spaulding, the Wildcats, and on Killington, just to name a few. You will eventually find your way, but you may lose a lot of time and energy in the process.

That's about all I can think of now. It's quite doable, no question, but a trek like this will hold plenty of challenge for you. And if you run into conditions that you aren't ready for, the most likely outcome is that you'll simply have to get off the trail as soon as possible. The thing about the tent just makes me wonder if you have any idea what you are suggesting.

[fiddlehead]

It does worry me a little bit that he's from Mississippi. Here's a pix from the whites in Nov. 2001
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/...imageuser=5137

[Peaks]

For those contemplating a late season traverse of the White Mountains, both Madison and Lakes hut close in mid September (16th this year). That means that there are no shelters or other accomodations on the AT between Mizpah and Osgood tent platforms. It includes the entire Presidential ridge above treeline.

Most other AMC huts close by mid October or the end of October. After that, 3 huts remain open on a caretaker basis: Carter Notch, Zealand Falls, and Lonesome Lake.

[Tramper Al]

For those contemplating a late season traverse of the White Mountains, both Madison and Lakes hut close in mid September (16th this year). That means that there are no shelters or other accomodations on the AT between Mizpah and Osgood tent platforms. It includes the entire Presidential ridge above treeline.

Most other AMC huts close by mid October or the end of October. After that, 3 huts remain open on a caretaker basis: Carter Notch, Zealand Falls, and Lonesome Lake.

You should remind these late season hikers, though, that the RMC facilities in the Northern Presidentials are open year 'round. And when does the observatory close? It is also useful for hot soup and a water refill, though it is a seasonal facility.

[woodsy]

Don't forget The Kennebec River crossing in Maine. A difficult ford under best of conditions and the ferry service will no longer be operating on a scheduled basis. If you attempt to ford in late OCT your balls may wind up in your throat due to cold water temps, Just a reminder.I personally would not ford this river under any circumstances. you may be able to schedule an off-season crossing with Steve the ferryman

[Hammerhead]

Hey man, I don't know you from Adam but I admire the hell out of you. If this is something you want to do, and more importantly, something you believe you can do then I say go for it! I haven't thru hiked yet, so the only advice I can really offer is to trust your gut. You'll be fine. Are you going to be posting a journal during your hike?

[Tramper Al]

Hey man, . . . I haven't thru hiked yet, so the only advice I can really offer is to trust your gut. You'll be fine.

Hey man, what kind of bad advice is this?

Most people do get home just fine, but in a typical winter one or more people die on or near the AT in Maine or New Hampshire.

Given the choice between careful research, preparation, experience and the proper gear, vs. trusting a gut and advice from someone who has never even been there in any season, I know what I would do.

[Hammerhead]

Hey man, what kind of bad advice is this?

Most people do get home just fine, but in a typical winter one or more people die on or near the AT in Maine or New Hampshire.

Given the choice between careful research, preparation, experience and the proper gear, vs. trusting a gut and advice from someone who has never even been there in any season, I know what I would do.

But I wasn't talking you to A-hole. And like DonJuan said in an earlier post...KNOW WHO YOU'RE TALKING TO. And just to spell it out for you: When I said 'Trust your gut', I said it because he's stated that he has experience. It's not like I said this to a 15yr old going out on his first hike.

[Biloxi]

hey guys..well to respond to a few of these recent post. 1st yes I believe I can do this..if not I wouldnt even attempt such a task.. the cold really doesnt bother me much..I have plenty of mountain winter experiance from military training and I am trying to devise the best clothing system.. lots of light layers with no heavy layers..so I can regulate my body temp.good insulated boots..small tight, low profile tent. a heavy 0' synthetic bag an inward reflective emergency bivy bag"top quality" a duel fuel stove, meens to start an effective fire if need be.. good quality rain gear..extra warm set of sleeping gear with always dry fleece socks..in a pinch I could have up to 6 layers if needed..I will be carrying a weather radio. just to stay informed to fast developing storms.I am in pretty good shape..not like when I was 19 or 20..lol ..but still able to push when needed..yes I will be keeping a journal on trail journals..with periodic updates comeing from home. and if anyone can tell me how to reach the gentleman that runs the ferry I will beg him to come get me..lol..any other advice would be great..thx

[Alligator]

... and if anyone can tell me how to reach the gentleman that runs the ferry I will beg him to come get me..lol..any other advice would be great..thx

You're in luck. Ferryman here on WB.

[The Old Fhart]

Tramper Al-"And when does the observatory close? It is also useful for hot soup and a water refill, though it is a seasonal facility."

I believe you mean the Mount Washington State Park that has the restaurant on the summit. The Mount Washington Weather Observatory is a research facility and not open to the general public anytime although members may visit in the summer.

All facilities on the summit are closed to the public starting around the start of October (weather dependent) and having worked for the Observatory for 4 winters I can tell you that it has to be an emergency, not just an inconvenience, before anyone gets inside in winter. Grey Knob, about 1 mile off the trail downhill near Mount Adams, is winterized and has a caretaker. It is an excellent place to stay in winter.

[Tramper Al]

I believe you mean the Mount Washington State Park that has the restaurant on the summit. The Mount Washington Weather Observatory is a research facility and not open to the general public anytime although members may visit in the summer.

All facilities on the summit are closed to the public starting around the start of October (weather dependent)

Yes, O.F., I did mean the public areas for Don, and most particularly the restaurant and running water. As I suspected, he will be there too late in the season to take advantage. Thanks.

[HIKER7s]

Same thing with ice on some steep trails and above treeline. Will you have your crampons?

I submit this as gear you really need to look at to take. I do sections like Bake Oven Knob and Port Clinton in PA in the winter and almost always there are ice covered rocks all over the trail, sometimes even the ice makes up the trail. Thats just in PA. I am sure if there isnt heavy snow to battle your going to get loads of ice in places.

[woodsy]

Glad to hear you have military background, it's likely to come in handy with extreme conditions survival training etc.. Being a vet also, gives me confidence in your ability to survive some hairy conditions that you will likely encounter , icing being the most challenging. You should be able to PM the ferryman here at WB.

[Biloxi]

yea woodsy, unfourtunate then..but experiance now..lol..I did a 21 day winter phase training that was ..shall we say "eye opening" .with alot less gear than I will have..so I am confident