Aqua Mira doesn't kill giardia?

[Moose2001]

This is what the EPA has to say about using bleach.

http://www.epa.gov/safewater/faq/emerg.html

Chemical Treatment
When boiling is not practical, certain chemicals will kill most harmful or disease-causing organisms.
For chemical disinfection to be effective, the water must be filtered and settled first.Chlorine and iodine are the two chemicals commonly used to treat water. They are somewhat effective in protecting against exposure toGiardia, but may not be effective in controlling more resistant organisms like Cryptosporidium. Chlorine is generally more effective than iodine in controlling Giardia, and both disinfectants work much better in warm water.

You can use a non-scented, household chlorine bleach that contains a chlorine compound to disinfect water.
Do not use non-chlorine bleach to disinfect water. Typically, household chlorine bleaches will be 5.25% available chlorine. Follow the procedure written on the label. When the necessary procedure is not given, find the percentage of available chlorine on the label and use the information in the following table as a guide. (Remember, 1/8 teaspoon and 8 drops are about the same quantity.)

Available Chlorine Drops per Quart/Gallon of Clear Water Drops per Liter of Clear Water
1% 10 per Quart - 40 per Gallon 10 per Liter
4-6% 2 per Quart - 8 per Gallon (1/8 teaspoon) 2 per Liter
7-10% 1 per Quart - 4 per Gallon 1 per Liter

(If the strength of the bleach is unknown, add ten drops per quart or liter of filtered and settled water. Double the amount of chlorine for cloudy, murky or colored water or water that is extremely cold.)

Mix the treated water thoroughly and allow it to stand, preferably covered, for 30 minutes. The water should have a slight chlorine odor. If not, repeat the dosage and allow the water to stand for an additional 15 minutes. If the treated water has too strong a chlorine taste, allow the water to stand exposed to the air for a few hours or pour it from one clean container to another several times.

[woodsy]

I wonder if the author would be against letting us post the article here too?

Couldn't hurt to ask sarge, Click on maintainer at top of page .
I found this link posted at another hiking forum where this same issue was being discussed in depth.

[hopefulhiker]

I liked the article too, Woodsy, Also I had not heard of "Pristine" the Canadian version of AM... They said it is exactly the same product, the companies had the same roots it seems. They said that chlorine dioxide will kill just about anything by oxidizing it.. Anyway I used AM about 95% of the time on my thru hike. I used a filter up north for a coulple of weeks because the drought water really muddy. If the source seemed to be right out of the spring or pipe, sometimes I would drink right out of the ground..

[highway]

HHmmm...

So many methods above for treating the mountain water.

yet each one seems to work for their users.

Makes one wonder whether any of them are really needed at all?

[MOWGLI]

I'm looking for an expert to discuss "the real" issues with drinking water in the backcountry for The Great Southeastern Hiking Festival. If anyone knows of any engaging speakers who are knowledgeable about the subject, please send me a PM.

[SGT Rock]

HHmmm...

So many methods above for treating the mountain water.

yet each one seems to work for their users.

Makes one wonder whether any of them are really needed at all?

Well this gets to something I realized a while back and I belive it more and more. Someone's water treatment is a faith based issue.

I know some people will disagree. Because they know their treatment is best. That all other treatments are certain roads to damnation.

Challenge someone's faith on their system and they will tell you why theirs is best and others are lesser. But the truth (according to Muesser) is all treatments are basically the same when it comes to real world efficiency.

But watch and observe. You will see what I mean. Maybe you aready have.

[Two Speed]

Before the silliness gets going I'd like to say that the article mentioned earlier in this thread looks like a lot of good information, and that there's another one here on WhiteBlaze that bears reading: Giardia Lamblia and Giardiasis With Particular Attention to the Sierra Nevada . Based on my limited professional experience these two articles, if read for understanding, will provide plenty of information so that the average backpacker can make an informed and intelligent decision.

Now, to the silliness.

Anyone who doesn't use the same filter as I do is a servant of evil and deserves eternal torment. So there.

[Footslogger]

[quote=SGT Rock;277435]
Challenge someone's faith on their system and they will tell you why theirs is best and others are lesser. But the truth (according to Muesser) is all treatments are basically the same when it comes to real world efficiency.
==========================================

Excellent point Rock. Case in point ...I used mechanical filters for years and ended up getting giardia. Switched over to chemical treatment (AquaMira) around 2000 and haven't gotten sick once.

I trust it because I haven't gotten sick yet while using it. That said, if I went hiking tomorrow, used AM and got giardia I'm sure I'd lose some trust in the product.

'Slogger

[woodsy]

I found this link posted at another hiking forum where this same issue was being discussed in depth.

Lol, I should have said: where the issue was being beat to death and the posters were beating up on each other over whose water treatment was good and whose wasn't, blah, blah, blah. However, what most agreed on was that pre-filtering water through cloth or coffee type filter before treating with whatever helped cut down on sediment related issues.

[Lone Wolf]

Giardia and bears. 2 biggests fears on the AT. Buncha scardy cats.

[Two Speed]

. . . However, what most agreed on was that pre-filtering water through cloth or coffee type filter before treating with whatever helped cut down on sediment related issues.

A great idea if you're filtering, treating with chemicals or not treating at all. Extends filter life, makes chemicals more effective and gets the "floaties" out if you're not treating at all. A cheap win-win any way you slice the problem.

[SGT Rock]

I found this link posted at another hiking forum where this same issue was being discussed in depth.

Lol, I should have said: where the issue was being beat to death and the posters were beating up on each other over whose water treatment was good and whose wasn't, blah, blah, blah. However, what most agreed on was that pre-filtering water through cloth or coffee type filter before treating with whatever helped cut down on sediment related issues.

This is part of the observation I have made. A person that spends $150 on a filter and is willing to lug about an extra pound of weight and spend all the effort to pump the thing has a lot of belief, money, and effort tied into that piece of equipment - so it better be needed.

A person that is throwing caution to the wind is likewise putting faith into the fact that they are using absolutely no protection whatsoever and that they will be fine.

And everywhere in-between there is faith in whatever system you decide to use or not use.

Because the threat is unseen and unproven. There are studies as to what you can do with a filter to treat sewage, how much Giardia iodine kills in lab-infested waters. But the real truth of the matter (based on the only people that have ever tried to figure this out) is no system (including none at all) seems to really be any more effective than the other in real world conditions.

So it has to be a matter of faith.

And something that challenges your faith, well it generally will end up being attacked - because to accept an argument that shows your faith could be wrong could destroy the bond of trust you have placed in the system. That is why for many people the whole choice of water treatments and filters is a very emotional issue.

Good luck campers.

[highway]

Rock:
Does the military still use iodine tablets-1/clear;2/cloudy/canteen?

[Footslogger]

Giardia and bears. 2 biggests fears on the AT. Buncha scardy cats.

============================

The Giardia didn't bother me half as much as that dat gawn antiboitic (Flagyl) used to kill it. Cure is darn near worse than the disease.

'Slogger

[LostInSpace]

Has anyone compared the findings in the aforementioned articles with the information from this US Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine site, mentioned in another thread?

[SGT Rock]

Rock:
Does the military still use iodine tablets-1/clear;2/cloudy/canteen?

You can get them, but as I recall, the recommendation now is 2 per canteen no matter what it looks like.

============================

The Giardia didn't bother me half as much as that dat gawn antiboitic (Flagyl) used to kill it. Cure is darn near worse than the disease.

'Slogger

I wonder if you can use cypro (sp?) on that. That is what they gave me in OIF 1 when I got dysentery.

[RockyTrail]

Has anyone compared the findings in the aforementioned articles with the information from this US Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine site, mentioned in another thread?

LS, that's the most comprehensive study of water filters and purification systems I have ever seen. They really analyzed everything, didn't they?
My Katadyn hiker filter didn't place all that well overall, but the aqua-mira came out better than I expected.

Amazing what your tax dollars can do when they are focused on your hobbies!

[SGT Rock]

Has anyone compared the findings in the aforementioned articles with the information from this US Army Center for Health Promotion and Preventive Medicine site, mentioned in another thread?

Another good link. I checked the chart and ballanced it against some of the data in the chart itself. For example:

Polar pure: protects against viruses and bacteria, but for Giardia and crypto it said no.

But then you read the notes on it that it links to - about giardia:

Polar Pure is capable of consistently achieving adequate

Giardia cyst log reductions if increased dosages and/or longer contact time (wait time) beyond manufacturer’s directions are used. To ensure adequate reduction of Giardia cysts in all water quality conditions, it is recommended that wait time be increased to at least 90-120 minutes and dosage doubled to provide a dose of 8 mg/L. This results in CT of 720-960 mg-min/L.

So this chart can help you at a glance see how something works - but there is more to each entry that should be looked at.

That said, this tells you how they all protect you from hell, they just don't tell you what your chance of actually going to hell is.

[Alligator]

That's a weird glitch, 26 minutes between a double post.

[SGT Rock]

That is one of the results of having an Iraqi ISP.