Questions for an '08 throu-hike

[Kerby]

The old Vargo Ti stoves were a POS, but I hear the new ones have fixed some of the issues. Let me know how that works out for you.

I'm not sure what POS means, but so far its working well.

at least both times that i have used it.

[EWS]

POS= piece of chit

[clured]

Maps + Compass = Deadweight. You will never, ever, be in a "survival" situation on the trail unless you do something incredibly stupid. And it's best not to know specifics about what's coming up on the trail; I can't tell you how many times I stopped for a snack at a shelter and had to listen to some dude looking at the elevation profile and being like "oh man, there's a wicked climb coming up." If you don't know what's ahead of you, you can hold on to the possibility during really hard sections that the trail is about to settle into a 20-mile flat ridgewalk; just that possibility, that anticipation, however unfounded, helps drag you over the rough parts.

[Kirby]

Maps + Compass = Deadweight. You will never, ever, be in a "survival" situation on the trail unless you do something incredibly stupid. And it's best not to know specifics about what's coming up on the trail; I can't tell you how many times I stopped for a snack at a shelter and had to listen to some dude looking at the elevation profile and being like "oh man, there's a wicked climb coming up." If you don't know what's ahead of you, you can hold on to the possibility during really hard sections that the trail is about to settle into a 20-mile flat ridgewalk; just that possibility, that anticipation, however unfounded, helps drag you over the rough parts.

Maps are needed when hiking, you don't need to have them out all the time, but you should always have them when hiking, even for a day.

What happens when your hiking buddy slips and hurts his ankle and needs to find the nearest road as quick as possible, what would you do?

Kirby

[Kerby]

Clurd and Kirby, Thanks for clearing that up.

[Kerby]

Maps are needed when hiking, you don't need to have them out all the time, but you should always have them when hiking, even for a day.

What happens when your hiking buddy slips and hurts his ankle and needs to find the nearest road as quick as possible, what would you do?

Kirby

By the way, love the name.

[SGT Rock]

Looks like twins.

[Christopher Robin]

Yes I agree w/map here in the North East you can easly loss the trail above tree line and I live here. Have some clothes you can layer, it is easyer to add or take off then work w/hevyer clothes. I have not offten used a compass but if you need to bushwack into a road or for other resons. Light weight rain jacket or anarak type W/pants serves both wind braker as well. Foreget the Searra cup it donot hold much water.

[clured]

Maps are needed when hiking, you don't need to have them out all the time, but you should always have them when hiking, even for a day.

What happens when your hiking buddy slips and hurts his ankle and needs to find the nearest road as quick as possible, what would you do?

Kirby

You know this because....other people have told you so? I've never really understood this what-if-someone-gets-hurt line; what would maps do for you in that situation? As far as I can tell, maps are only really useful is you plan to go off-trail, and in that case obviously they are essential; but are you really going to take your injured budy--shattered ankle and all--on a five mile bushwack through uneven, difficuly, often incredibly dense foilage to get to a road? No. The "nearest road" effectively always means the "nearest road on the trail," and that information is in the data book, which of course you should always carry. Anyway, if the injury is bad enough that he can't walk, hs isn't going to go anywhere at all. He is going to sit there while you walk to the nearest op-out point (as indicated by the mileage index in your book) and phone for help. Also, the whole issue is moot as long as you hike alone, which is the only way to hike. Remember, injury is ALWAYS your fault; you have total control over where you put your feet, and if you fall it is because you weren't paying attention. That may sound crass, but it's true, and its the only mindset to have if you are serious about not getting hurt on the trail. You can always be accountable for your own feet, but never for your friend's; hike alone, and you have nothing to worry about.

Don't get me wrong--maps can be great fun at times; it can just be cool to get a bird's eye view of what you are walking over. But in the end they are just this: entertainment, as far as the AT is concerned.

[Uncle Silly]

You know this because....other people have told you so? I've never really understood this what-if-someone-gets-hurt line; what would maps do for you in that situation?

The map would tell you that the road crossing is 4 miles away by trail, but only half a mile following the creek you just passed. Or something similar: the old logging road you're about to come up on, or the side trail, and where these might lead. By having the map, you have the information to know whether leaving the AT is a good option.

The data book doesn't provide anywhere near the kind of context that a map does. It can't tell you anything about where you are if you get lost trying to follow the trail in the fog. (Obviously, the map won't help either, until the fog lifts.)

A map is a serious piece of emergency equipment -- and like all emergency equipment, it's quite possible to get along without it. That doesn't mean it's smart to do so.

[take-a-knee]

The map would tell you that the road crossing is 4 miles away by trail, but only half a mile following the creek you just passed. Or something similar: the old logging road you're about to come up on, or the side trail, and where these might lead. By having the map, you have the information to know whether leaving the AT is a good option.

The data book doesn't provide anywhere near the kind of context that a map does. It can't tell you anything about where you are if you get lost trying to follow the trail in the fog. (Obviously, the map won't help either, until the fog lifts.)

A map is a serious piece of emergency equipment -- and like all emergency equipment, it's quite possible to get along without it. That doesn't mean it's smart to do so.

You don't understand Silly, the map is of no use to this guy 'cause he can't read it. Some people have spatial perception problems, they can't visualize in 2D, much less 3D.

[warraghiyagey]

You don't understand Silly, the map is of no use to this guy 'cause he can't read it. Some people have spatial perception problems, they can't visualize in 2D, much less 3D.

That seems unnecessary. He just has a different opinion. No harm.

[Montego]

You know this because....other people have told you so? I've never really understood this what-if-someone-gets-hurt line; what would maps do for you in that situation? As far as I can tell, maps are only really useful is you plan to go off-trail, and in that case obviously they are essential; but are you really going to take your injured budy--shattered ankle and all--on a five mile bushwack through uneven, difficuly, often incredibly dense foilage to get to a road? No. The "nearest road" effectively always means the "nearest road on the trail," and that information is in the data book, which of course you should always carry. Anyway, if the injury is bad enough that he can't walk, hs isn't going to go anywhere at all. He is going to sit there while you walk to the nearest op-out point (as indicated by the mileage index in your book) and phone for help. Also, the whole issue is moot as long as you hike alone, which is the only way to hike. Remember, injury is ALWAYS your fault; you have total control over where you put your feet, and if you fall it is because you weren't paying attention. That may sound crass, but it's true, and its the only mindset to have if you are serious about not getting hurt on the trail. You can always be accountable for your own feet, but never for your friend's; hike alone, and you have nothing to worry about.

Don't get me wrong--maps can be great fun at times; it can just be cool to get a bird's eye view of what you are walking over. But in the end they are just this: entertainment, as far as the AT is concerned.

IMHO, hiking alone may be fine for some or even most, but not all people prefer to do that especially if you've bee hiking alone for a while. As far as the idea that "injury is ALWAYS your fault", I beg to differ. Hikers have and always will be injuried by falling branches (widow makers), the hidden striking snake, odd lightning bolt out of nowhere, etc. What I'm trying to say is that occasionally (and it only takes once), hikers are injured or even killed even though they did everything right. To believe overwise only shows a lack of maturity, believing one is invincible or a lack of "real wold" experience.

Carrying a map and a small compass doesn't mean that you have to use it, but it can be awfully nice to have if you do need them. Sure, you can hike on to the next access point as indicated in the AT Companion Book (could be several miles) or you can bushwack the half-mile or mile to the nearest road for help using the map and compass. In an emergency situation, time can become your enemy.

[clured]

"Injury is ALWAYS your fault" isn't a fact, Montego, it's an attitude. Think about it like this: you can either go out into the woods with all kinds of alarmist nonsense like maps, compasses, handheld GPS devices, satellite phones (yep, I saw'em last summer), etc. That way, WHEN you fall and break something you can call the chopper to pluck you out of the woods. Or you can bring the best protection of all: accountability and enforced self-reliance, the "watch where you step" precaution.

Of course, you are right about snakes, branches, etc. (in the first post, I was specifically talking about falls). But the attitude is still valuable; if you go in with the thought in mind that you have complete control over what happens to you, and that it will be your fault if anything goes wrong, it's more likely that you will conduct yourself with a sense of self-awareness and proactive thought than if you equip yourself with all kinds of emergency stuff.

[clured]

To believe overwise only shows a lack of maturity, believing one is invincible or a lack of "real wold" experience.

Oh, were my 2,500+ miles of hiking this year not in the real world? Which year did you thru-hike in?

[Montego]

Oh, were my 2,500+ miles of hiking this year not in the real world? Which year did you thru-hike in?

I have never set foot on the AT (I will start my AT thru-hike in '08) though I have hiking/camping/winter camping experience (some extensive) in Germany, Austria, Grand Tetons (School Room Glacier), Wind River Range, Sierra Nevada Range, San Juan Range, Pikes Peak (Barr Trail), Grand Canyon (Angel Trail), and other trails, the names of which I've long forgotten the names of.

So yes, I believe that I have much more than 2,500 miles of hiking under my belt, though your 2,500+ miles of hikine is commendable and certainly nothing to laugh at - my congratulations.

I still belive that carrying a map and small compass, even if they are never used, is a prudent precaution. HYOH and peace.

[hopefulhiker]

On the water question, I would carry extra water bottles next year because of the water situation being potentially bad. Also I have seen water bottles leak and break, it is best to carry at least one backup.

[rizzo]

No maps dumbass, wingfoot rules, self inflating thermarest is the best equiptment, foraging is time consuming and not substantial enough to get more than a taste, people quit all the way up to katahdin stream campground for every reason imaginable although that late in the game it's usually physical. this year alone several people dropped out just ahead of me less than a week from finishing. What makes a sucessfull hike is your ability to keep a positive attitude and a healthy body.

[Dakota Dan]

......... Like most people say, at first it's a physical thing, but after a few weeks when you get into shape and get your trail legs, everything becomes mental......

Just watch out for unsolicted PM's from hikers who want you to go hiking with in order for them to lose weight in order to do the "physical thing" you speak of. They could get mad, if you refuse to help, and complain to attroll and accuse you of "hitting on them" LOL

[Kerby]

"Injury is ALWAYS your fault" isn't a fact, Montego, it's an attitude. Think about it like this: you can either go out into the woods with all kinds of alarmist nonsense like maps, compasses, handheld GPS devices, satellite phones (yep, I saw'em last summer), etc. That way, WHEN you fall and break something you can call the chopper to pluck you out of the woods. Or you can bring the best protection of all: accountability and enforced self-reliance, the "watch where you step" precaution.

Of course, you are right about snakes, branches, etc. (in the first post, I was specifically talking about falls). But the attitude is still valuable; if you go in with the thought in mind that you have complete control over what happens to you, and that it will be your fault if anything goes wrong, it's more likely that you will conduct yourself with a sense of self-awareness and proactive thought than if you equip yourself with all kinds of emergency stuff.

Clured, thank you. Thiis is likely some of the best advice I have yet hers. A positive attitude and holding yourself accountable is the only way to live, much less hike.

i see this as more "prepair to succeed" than "be ready to fail"..;as it were.