distressing thefts of packs

[Trailbender]

I sleep with my knife beside me. If I hear someone sneaking around my tent in the middle of the night, they are probably up to no good. I will do what it takes to defend myself. Someone taking your pack in the middle of the woods is attempted murder. You need the food and supplies in them. If someone sneaks in my tent in the middle of the night, they get stabbed, no questions asked. It is the same as a burglar breaking in your house.

[ShelterLeopard]

Trailbender, that's kind of a weird thing to say. Someone around your tent at night, comes in, stabbed, no questions asked? I mean, I understand self defense, but that sounds a little drastic...

[white_russian]

Yeah, that is a bit on the paranoid side of things. I'd be more worried about bears than people coming into your tent.

[Elder]

Yeah, that is a bit on the paranoid side of things. I'd be more worried about bears than people coming into your tent.

and I suspect you would irritate the bear.

[Lone Wolf]

Trailbender, that's kind of a weird thing to say. Someone around your tent at night, comes in, stabbed, no questions asked? I mean, I understand self defense, but that sounds a little drastic...

you're young. one day you'll get it

[Takijeep]

Agree it's rare outside of TD. But each year it happens a few times and it's not always the fault of "negligent, lazy, or stupid" hikers.

It would help if places of business were not so pack-phobic, like when they force hikers to leave their packs outside their doors unattended while they shop, eat a meal, take a shower, etc. That's an invitation to looting.

I can see a business' side of it, especially when a large group of hikers shows up. They understandably don't want their other customers to be tripping over backpacking gear that hikers just leave anywhere they feel like it, especially inside a crowded entrance area. So, it might be an idea worth exploring for them to designate a place--inside, probably--where packs could be stored temporarily out of view and reach of others.

If you walk into a retail establishment carrying a bag from another store, often you will be asked to leave that bag with the office, a cashier, etc. Presumably, this is to cut down on shoplifting. Why couldn't the same arrangement be made for backpacks and other gear, instead of simply telling hikers to keep it outside?

Most of the commercial facilities (restaurants, stores, etc.) in SNP will not permit packs inside. They make hikers leave their gear right outside on a sidewalk for anyone who comes along to do what they want with it. These sidewalks are like 30 seconds away from where vehicles can park. It's amazing few incidents have happened at these establishments. There are nearly identical situations in many trail towns--right on the main drag.

Howdy, If the store says no packs and they want to get testy about it ask to speak to the manager and inform them that if they don't want your business you will shop elsewhere! Just fyi I worked four years at Walt Disney World as security and loss prevention; if it is out of your sight and has value to you that is negligence.

[wacocelt]

Agree it's rare outside of TD. But each year it happens a few times and it's not always the fault of "negligent, lazy, or stupid" hikers.

It would help if places of business were not so pack-phobic, like when they force hikers to leave their packs outside their doors unattended while they shop, eat a meal, take a shower, etc. That's an invitation to looting.

I can see a business' side of it, especially when a large group of hikers shows up. They understandably don't want their other customers to be tripping over backpacking gear that hikers just leave anywhere they feel like it, especially inside a crowded entrance area. So, it might be an idea worth exploring for them to designate a place--inside, probably--where packs could be stored temporarily out of view and reach of others.

If you walk into a retail establishment carrying a bag from another store, often you will be asked to leave that bag with the office, a cashier, etc. Presumably, this is to cut down on shoplifting. Why couldn't the same arrangement be made for backpacks and other gear, instead of simply telling hikers to keep it outside?

Most of the commercial facilities (restaurants, stores, etc.) in SNP will not permit packs inside. They make hikers leave their gear right outside on a sidewalk for anyone who comes along to do what they want with it. These sidewalks are like 30 seconds away from where vehicles can park. It's amazing few incidents have happened at these establishments. There are nearly identical situations in many trail towns--right on the main drag.

I understand and truly empathize with your sentiment. It is however rather naive to even begin to imagine that some of the small groceries in some of these trail towns have the time or storage space which would be required to deal with some hiker influxes. Even ten hikers needing packs stored a day would require several interruptions of business not to mention people that don't hike being forced to deal with your stench.

[SurferNerd]

Like I learned in the Marine Corps, I take the same perspective to my pack as I did my M16. " I will never leave my weapon farther than an arm's reach." Now obviously I hang my pack at night, and food to the bear cables. That's where my infamous Fox5.3 Mace or .45 handgun (if legal on trip) would come into play.

[Jack Tarlin]

Most stores/restaurants don't want packs in there for any number of reasons:

*The worry about stuff getting knocked down/damaged by folks wearing big
backpacks. Don't laugh, this happens more than you think, especially in
small stores.

*They don't have a good place for people to leave packs and they don't want
to be liable or responsible for stuff people leave. And they have a point: If
a store or resteaurant employee says "leave your stuff in the vestibule" or
wherever, the implication is that it's safe there and the business is ultimately
resonsible for it, and this is an obligation many folks don't want to take on.

*Backpacks smell like rendered cats, and other than Outfitters, many places,
especially restaurants, don't wanna deal with them, for good reason.

Hikers are ultimately responsible for their own stuff. Keep wallets, ID's, cameras, phones, other high-end stuff on your persons at all times. If you leave your pack anywhere, do it wisely and judiciously; don't do it for long, and always, be aware that you do it at your own risk.

[makoboy]

http://www.pacsafe.com/www/index.php...=specification

Might be a bit heavy for many at 1lb 3oz, but I know several people who have used this while backpacking in Europe to prevent thefts of opportunity.

[sheepdog]

http://www.pacsafe.com/www/index.php...=specification

Might be a bit heavy for many at 1lb 3oz, but I know several people who have used this while backpacking in Europe to prevent thefts of opportunity.

that is pretty cool. like you said, just a little heavy

[Zoooma]

I sleep with my knife beside me. If I hear someone sneaking around my tent in the middle of the night, they are probably up to no good. I will do what it takes to defend myself. Someone taking your pack in the middle of the woods is attempted murder. You need the food and supplies in them. If someone sneaks in my tent in the middle of the night, they get stabbed, no questions asked. It is the same as a burglar breaking in your house.

Trailbender, that's kind of a weird thing to say. Someone around your tent at night, comes in, stabbed, no questions asked? I mean, I understand self defense, but that sounds a little drastic...

I don't think that's drastic at all. American citizens have every right to defend themselves at home and home for some people is a tent. The rules don't change depending on your type of housing. In the time it takes you to ask an intruder what their intentions are, they could kill you. But maybe they just wanna rob you and have no intention of killing you. How do you know? Again, in the time it takes you to ask them, they could kill you. If you don't mind that, then that's your choice. But even the most liberal American will probably want to kill (in self defense) than be killed.

You just don't know.

[cowboy nichols]

my shepard takes care of my pack, I don't stay in town and I also would use a knife without asking . You come pass my personal zone I protect myself. I've only had to use a knife 3 times and never on a trail.

[Skyline]

I understand and truly empathize with your sentiment. It is however rather naive to even begin to imagine that some of the small groceries in some of these trail towns have the time or storage space which would be required to deal with some hiker influxes. Even ten hikers needing packs stored a day would require several interruptions of business not to mention people that don't hike being forced to deal with your stench.

As a hypothetical business owner, I'm thinking I could go either way on this. Like most things in life, "it depends...".

If I had the room, away from the public, I wouldn't mind if hikers asked me to store their packs. It would be a good idea if I had some kind of two-part ticket to give them (one part for me, one part for them)—to present to reclaim their pack like you get at a restaurant's coat-check area or in stores where they make you leave your packages to diminish shoplifting.

I would certainly expect the hiker(s) to be patient and let me deal with other paying customers before I dealt with their packs. Yes, this may be a bit much to ask from a few of today's "entitled" hikers, but they would quickly get the message.

However, if my hypothetical business did not have the room, it's easy to see the other side of this debate. A business does not want or need hikers' backpacking gear out where it can be tripped over or stolen on its watch.

Wearing a huge pack while walking around in a commercial establishment? The right thing to do would be to take the pack off near the entrance, out of the way of foot traffic, and then go ask about storage.

Usually, there's a middle ground and so I would ask businesses that are near the Trail to try to find it. If they cannot, then it's up to hikers to live with the alternatives.

[Don H]

The only establishment that has allowed me to bring a pack inside was Cabela's in Hamburg. They checked my pack at the customer service desk while I shopped.

[Rockhound]

I sleep with my knife beside me. If I hear someone sneaking around my tent in the middle of the night, they are probably up to no good. I will do what it takes to defend myself. Someone taking your pack in the middle of the woods is attempted murder. You need the food and supplies in them. If someone sneaks in my tent in the middle of the night, they get stabbed, no questions asked. It is the same as a burglar breaking in your house.

Simmer down there Sparky. Stealing a pack along the A.T. is not murder, attempted or otherwise. You do know that you are generally no more than 10 miles away from a town anywhere along the trail right? I could hike that on an overcast night with no headlamp. (even easier without a pack) Also people have been known to get up in the night and then, half asleep, return to the wrong tent. It would be a shame to see you go to jail over killing an innocent hiker just because you're paranoid.

[Zoooma]

Simmer down there Sparky. Stealing a pack along the A.T. is not murder, attempted or otherwise. You do know that you are generally no more than 10 miles away from a town anywhere along the trail right? I could hike that on an overcast night with no headlamp. (even easier without a pack) Also people have been known to get up in the night and then, half asleep, return to the wrong tent. It would be a shame to see you go to jail over killing an innocent hiker just because you're paranoid.

Once again, in the time it takes for you to find out the intentions of someone who is invading your personal space, they could kill you. Question is: do you potentially allow that to happen? Or protect yourself?

[Johnny Thunder]

This thread has jumped the shark.

[Wise Old Owl]

Trailbender, that's kind of a weird thing to say. Someone around your tent at night, comes in, stabbed, no questions asked? I mean, I understand self defense, but that sounds a little drastic...

Not really - I had a gang in New York steal stuff in the middle of the night.... Long time ago.

[Skyline]

The only establishment that has allowed me to bring a pack inside was Cabela's in Hamburg. They checked my pack at the customer service desk while I shopped.

A super market in Luray, west of SNP, has allowed hikers I shuttled there to do the same. Their packs were stored in the somewhat crowded customer service kiosk near the entrance.

An outfitter in Waynesboro, and a diner in Glasgow--ditto. (And honestly, the diner didn't have much room to spare!)