Survival hike

[taildragger]

Just curious, has anyone thought about doing a hunter gatherer style hike. Bring only the food that you would need to safely make it off the trail, and try to survive by only eating what you get off the trail?

I have thought about trying to put together such a hike one fall on the Ouchita trail in Oklahoma, and I just wanted some input on how stupid or brilliant this idea is.

We'd put a lot of research into what plants we could eat, then carry a .22 caliber rifle, and a fishing poll.

Thoughts?

[warraghiyagey]

Just curious, has anyone thought about doing a hunter gatherer style hike. Bring only the food that you would need to safely make it off the trail, and try to survive by only eating what you get off the trail?

I have thought about trying to put together such a hike one fall on the Ouchita trail in Oklahoma, and I just wanted some input on how stupid or brilliant this idea is.

We'd put a lot of research into what plants we could eat, then carry a .22 caliber rifle, and a fishing poll.

Thoughts?

Guns and hiking? Yikes, even in the face of the survivalist concept. What do you plan to do with the complete carcass of kills? Take what you want and throw the rest away? Use every bit of the kill?
Sounds more like an Eric Rudolph thing than someone who wants to enjoy a hike.

[ChimneySpring]

Into the Wild Part 2?

Are firearms legal to carry and discharge on that trail, at that time of the year? And, are bag limits sufficient to feed your hiking party? I would recommend some sort of over/under configuration with rifle and shotgun capability. That way you wouldn't have to limit yourself to small game. I would also look into possible methods to cure and store meat.

[taildragger]

Into the Wild Part 2?

Are firearms legal to carry and discharge on that trail, at that time of the year? And, are bag limits sufficient to feed your hiking party? I would recommend some sort of over/under configuration with rifle and shotgun capability. That way you wouldn't have to limit yourself to small game. I would also look into possible methods to cure and store meat.

Into the wild part 2, not quite, both of us are fairly skilled hunters and hikers.

A .410 would be more ideal for what we want to do, but my .410s are more problematic than my .22s

As for bag limits, yes they should suffice (its usually something like 15 squirrels per day, a few rabbits etc...)

I wanted to keep it limited to foraging and small game because its easy to deal with a squirrel carcass, its about the right size for a fox, coyote, or coon to munch on what we don't use, and its small enough for daily consumption of the entire animal, curing and storing not necessarily as important.

Hunting, I cannot recall off the top of my head, I believe that there is on parts, this is really just a theory getting kicked around right now, and the having a stretch of land to walk through and hunt is the hardest part. I imagine that what will more than likely happen is that we would have to find a WMA and just bushwhack it for a week or so.


Hiking with guns is not really a scary thing, if you're used to being around it, I got into hiking because of hunting, and I'd like to combine the two and I see this as a challenge that will tie me more closely than I already am to the food chain directly.

OTOH, hiking with a bow is hard, I've done some hiking/camping while hauling my old Hoyt Super Slim II around, and that was a pain, its the reason why I got a much smaller/lighter bow.

[dessertrat]

The mountain men who lived off the land often left lots of carcasses all over the place, since they didn't have time to stop and cure or process hides, meat, etc.

That was not a big deal back in 1850, since there were a lot more scavengers, and a lot fewer people around. I think it would be the antithesis of "leave no trace" today. While it's a cool idea, I think the time for it has come and gone, as a matter of responsible hiking.

[Fiddler]

Over 40 years ago a fishing/camping friend and I would go up river several miles usually for about a 2 day trip. We carried enough food for 2, maybe 3 days. Sometimes we stayed a few days longer, up to 2 weeks. We survived on fish and edible plants. We knew which plants were good, some were quite tasty. A meal can be obtained in 10 or 15 minutes providing you are knowledgable of the edible plants in your area. With the right book to study, and a little practice, it could be done qiute easily. But study the plants well, some are poisonous.

[taildragger]

The mountain men who lived off the land often left lots of carcasses all over the place, since they didn't have time to stop and cure or process hides, meat, etc.

That was not a big deal back in 1850, since there were a lot more scavengers, and a lot fewer people around. I think it would be the antithesis of "leave no trace" today. While it's a cool idea, I think the time for it has come and gone, as a matter of responsible hiking.

The southern and south eastern parts of Oklahoma are still full of scavengers, lots of coons and other critters. I've left goose carcasses out at night, with the intent of taking the feathers when I woke up in the morning only to find the carcass has been taken, and no real trace was left.

So, I think that if I keep it to small game (squirells, rabbits etc..) that it won't really leave a trace, and if there are other people around, a squirrel is about the same size as a fieldy, I imagine that a cathole would do it justice.

[Cannibal]

A .410 would be more ideal for what we want to do, but my .410s are more problematic than my .22s

Don't know if they are still around or where you'd find them, but the USAF for a few years during the 80s issued a rifle/shotgun combo as part of an emergency kit for downed pilots. It was an over/under set-up with a .410 (under) and .22 (over). I've seen two of them thru the years, but I've never seen one for sale.

[warraghiyagey]

Guns aren't necessarilly a scary thing, especialy if you're used to being around them - as you say. But you're not taking into account the folks that are hiking for their own reasons as well who aren't used to them. Considering others sensibilities is a strength not a weakness.
Your take on the bow was interesting as convenience would be an issue, but I've considered this type of hike myself and while I imagined it with a broad study of plants and mushrooms and a fishing set up of some sort, I also considered the bow. Seems it would be lighter. Maybe less imposing to hikers who have never met you, but will, with maybe a rifle as part of what they're meeting.
But I wouldn't go past the fishing route until, if ever, I worked out a way to use every part of the animal, and for sure, to have worked out honoring said creature and with due reverence to the meaning of it all.

[take-a-knee]

Interesting concept, there are places in the mountain west or Alaska where that could be done. Colonel Townsend Whelen did several extended wilderness forays like that. Most places where you could do something like that are bear country and I'd reccommend something like a Steyr Scout rifle in 308. Ptarmigan and snowshoe hares are common on the tundra, either is quite a meal with some rice. Have reduced loads for small game 'cause that would be most of your pot meat. Kifaru's website has load data for reduced loads for several calibers. Have some long, heavy bullets "loaded for bear". An extended "Huck Finn" float trip, dining on fish would be a little more accessible for most of us.

[Marta]

Read "The Last American Man." Eustace Conway, Jr., did a hunter-gatherer hike of the AT. Rumor has it that he gathered some food from other hikers from time to time, but he also foraged for wild food.

[dessertrat]

Don't know if they are still around or where you'd find them, but the USAF for a few years during the 80s issued a rifle/shotgun combo as part of an emergency kit for downed pilots. It was an over/under set-up with a .410 (under) and .22 (over). I've seen two of them thru the years, but I've never seen one for sale.

That would be the M6 Scout survival rifle. It was made again for a few years in the early 2000's. They also made a pistol version in .22/.45 Long Colt.

[Cannibal]

Your take on the bow was interesting as convenience would be an issue, but I've considered this type of hike myself and while I imagined it with a broad study of plants and mushrooms and a fishing set up of some sort, I also considered the bow. Seems it would be lighter. Maybe less imposing to hikers who have never met you, but will, with maybe a rifle as part of what they're meeting.

What about some of the small crossbows? Get a little bit of the advantages of both systems and should be more than sufficent for the game you'd be looking for on a hike.

[taildragger]

What about some of the small crossbows? Get a little bit of the advantages of both systems and should be more than sufficent for the game you'd be looking for on a hike.

Illegal to use without an injured shoulder...and mines not injured enough since I can shoot a 70lbs bow again

[Cannibal]

That must me a state to state reg. There is a "crossbow" season here in Florida. I guess that would be the biggest problem with any weapon on the AT; you'd be legal is some places and a criminal in others.

[taildragger]

exactly, and its a state reg that you need to be injured to use a crossbow in most states....

I wouldn't consider doing something like this on the AT, far too many people, its makes use of a firearm (bow or powdered) too dangerous.

[shelterbuilder]

Interesting concept, there are places in the mountain west or Alaska where that could be done. Colonel Townsend Whelen did several extended wilderness forays like that. Most places where you could do something like that are bear country and I'd reccommend something like a Steyr Scout rifle in 308. Ptarmigan and snowshoe hares are common on the tundra, either is quite a meal with some rice. Have reduced loads for small game 'cause that would be most of your pot meat. Kifaru's website has load data for reduced loads for several calibers. Have some long, heavy bullets "loaded for bear". An extended "Huck Finn" float trip, dining on fish would be a little more accessible for most of us.

I find it interesting that you would mention Colonel Townsend Whelen - I haven't heard that name in years in the hiking community. I read some of his work - and the work of some of his contemporaries - back in the 70's and was profoundly impressed by the man's abilities and intellect. He was the type of man who could go into the wliderness with next to nothing, stay for 2 weeks, have a wonderful time living off the land, and come home smiling, rested, and relaxed. But I don't know if he would fit into the outdoor community today - so much has changed since then.

[scope]

On the AT, I suspect the problem with a gun is finding game to kill with it.

[take-a-knee]

Yes, even if this were legal it still wouldn't be proper on the AT, I see the AT as an extended park, it belongs to all of us. I used to hunt mourning doves here in GA (I don't anymore), that is a southern tradition. My wife has a bird feeder in our front yard that has several pairs of mourning doves that come most days before they migrate. I would never consider shooting one of them, they are "our" doves. I see the AT corridor in the same way, the game that is there should be left unmolested unless there is some really sound biology behind messing with it. The deer herds have to be culled since we don't have large predators back east anymore, other than that, leave it be.

As for crossbows, that is a pretty unweildy contraption to tote around, a light compact rifle in the wilderness would be much more useful.

I'd bet there are valleys in Alaska where no one has been in years, some place like that would be where you could live out an adventure like that. It is hard to cover a lot of ground and hunt at the same time, and not everywhere in Alaska would work because the terrain is just too rugged, and dense with vegetation. A float trip with a small raft would be the ticket.

[taildragger]

http://www.hotspringsar.com/info/forest/forest.htm

looks like hunting is allowed, at least on part of it, now to find out about the Oklahoma side...