Winter clothing list for wife

[DG_on_AT]

I'm taking my wife, a relatively new hiking fanatic, on a stint on the AT in the Smokies the weekend of January 11-13. We need to acquire some winter gear for her between now and then, particularly clothing.

I need some recommendations for a petite, always-cold female.

Her bag is a Mountain Hardwear Lamina 20 degree synthetic, and I'm considering buying her the thermolite reactor sleeping bag liner to add warmth - anybody have any experience with this? She'll be sleeping on the pink Thermarest traillite pad.

As far as clothing, I would appreciate some recommendations on the complete outfit (i.e. base layer, middle layer, outer layer, gloves, socks, etc.) for the hike and for wearing around camp. What is your typical clothing setup for winter hikes and for winter camping?

I'm an always-hot male and I don't think my experience applies here. Thanks!

[Minerva]

Good thing Christmas is before you leave for the weekend trek. If you really love her you'd find her a down bag rated to 15* or 0* that weighs the same as the synthetic MH Lamina (2lb 15 oz).

Does she have the Prolite 4 or 3? The 4 has a higher R value ( 4.1 vs. 3)

Buy her a pair of down booties for sleeping.

Consider power stretch gloves for hiking or mittens made of wool lined with thinsulate or something similar. Use a glove liner. Down mittens for camp.

Bring a warm windstopper hat and a fleece neck gaiter which can be pulled up to cover her nose, worn as an ear band or with the use of a baby diaper pin or small rubber band turned into another hat.

Treat her to a Montbell UL down sweater for around camp.

In winter my base layer is a Patagonia silk weight long sleeve top, an EMS Power Stretch top and a Puffball vest. I wear Power stretch tights, smart wool socks, long gaiters and Lowa Renegades. If it gets windy put on a breathable WP raincoat with pit zips.

Keep her hiking at a good 2.5 to 3 mph pace, she'll stay warm.

If all else fails buy her the biggest gold and diamond ring you can find and give it to her by Valentines Day.

Happy Trails!!
MrsGorp

[sweetpeastu]

Hmmm if you believe there will be snow buy her some sorta down booties with rubber bottoms so she can wear them around camp and have nice warm feet.

Though some cordura bottomed booties may say you can stand around for a few hours in "dry" snow w/o having them soaked, I did not find this to be the case last weekend in Dolly Sods, WV (where there was snow).

I prefer wool to synthetics. I use the smartwool base layer tops and add clothing on top of them for warmth. I second the neck gaiter and good wind resistent hat as well as what was said about wool gloves or basically anything with thinsalate.

Make sure you pack extra socks in case your boots get wet. Wet feet will sap your warmth like nothing else. Oh, you might also go to Dicks Sporting goods or Sierra Trading Post, or even Campmor and order some foot warmers for her boots. They saved me in camp last weekend! They're like the hand warmers that heat up after they're exposed to air. They're great.

Make sure she has some nice wicking long underwear to wear under whatever she hikes in and I love wearing fleece pants in camp...just make sure they're not microweight fleece.

Down vs. Synthetic is a personal preference in terms of sleeping bags, but I have a Marmot 15 degree bag which keeps me toasty. (Note: if she wears too many layers to bed, she could wake up shivering due to sweating...)

Oh, uh I recommend down jackets for around camp. I have a Marmot 750 fill jacket that I will never go winter camping without.

Hope ya'll have fun!

[sweetpeastu]

one other thought, I know of people who carry a full length pad (for instance the Thermarest prolite inflatable pad) and then double that up with a 3/4 length foam pad or vice versa for extra warmth and insalation from the ground.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Not a fan of Smartwool as a base layer for general hiking, but for winter hiking it is hard to beat.

If you get her a new bag, you might want to look into one that can double as a camp blanket. While these aren't the lightest bags out there, most cold -natured people are willing to carry the extra weight to be warm before retiring and when rising in the morning. If you don't go with a new bag, you might want to look at adding a quilt instead of a liner to add to the warmth of her bag and to use in camp.

[DG_on_AT]

Do you think a lightweight fleece blanket would be better than a liner, if used as the quilt was mentioned above?

[Egads]

DG_on _AT,

"I need some recommendations for a petite, always-cold female.

Her bag is a Mountain Hardwear Lamina 20 degree synthetic, and I'm considering buying her the thermolite reactor sleeping bag liner to add warmth."

Forget about counting on the thermolite reactor or any other liner for warmth. IMHO it will not make an appreciable difference and is not worth the weight and volume penalty.

Invest in a good quality down 0* or 10* bag in addition to the camp insulation clothes. I recommend Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends, or Montbell SSDH. If you buy a Montbell, get the length you need for yourself and close off the feet compartment to make it shorter for her.

Try to have at least R5 or 6 rating for your pad(s). You may need to double up to get that.

It goes without saying "Cotton Kills".

Pick a sheltered site and one that allows a fire.

Good luck with your trip.

Egads

[Frosty]

As far as clothing, I would appreciate some recommendations on the complete outfit (i.e. base layer, middle layer, outer layer, gloves, socks, etc.) for the hike and for wearing around camp. What is your typical clothing setup for winter hikes and for winter camping?

As a long-time married (more than once) guy, this question sends shivers up my spine.

Winter hiking is difficult for many people. There is no building or car to pop into to get warm for a minute. Winter hiking ought to be approached gradually, building up a knowledge base, and just seeing if you enjoy trying to eat when two minutes exposure makes your fingers turn blue. If she has no winter hiking gear now, is it safe to assume that she is a novice to winter hiking?

If so, do yourself a favor and don't go into the Smokies for an overnighter as a "Welcome to winter in the outdoors, dear" adventure.

At the very least, camp no more than a mile or two from your car, and tell her you don't mind at all bailing out if she wants to, even in the middle of the night. And mean it.

[bigcranky]

I like Frosty's response the best, honestly. My wife, Dragonfly, is the coldest person I know. We are looking over your original post and the responses, most of which are excellent. We will confirm:

1. The Smokies can be *very cold* in winter. She will *need* a 0-F rated or lower sleeping bag. A 20-F synthetic with a liner will not be enough. Remember that you will have more than 12 hours of darkness, and be spending a lot of time in that bag.

2. Staying warm while hiking is relatively easy. But once you stop for the day, watch out. Down booties, down jacket, warm mitts, warm hat, neck gaiter -- all useful. Get her out of the wind.

3. Make sure you have plenty of hot food -- and be able to make hot drinks quickly when you stop for a break. Hot chocolate, hot soups, Russian tea, anything hot and sugary she can drink.

I've been with Dragonfly when she just could not get warm. Period. It's not fun for anyone. (And that was in March, in weather not much below freezing.) No surprise, but it's very hard to get her out in the winter any more -- and we're talking about a woman who has winter camped in the Adirondacks, for Pete's sake.

So please be careful and have fun.

[Marta]

I'm an always-cold female and I say go for it. There's nothing as gorgeous as a clear, cold day, followed by a clear, cold night...except maybe some snow. And rime ice.

1) Assuming you want to stay with the current sleeping bag, the fleece blanket idea is a good one for adding warmth. Something like a cashmere or pashmina shawl to use inside the bag in cold spots (around the feet or around the neck and head) can help a lot. To increase insulation underneath, I would bring a section of closed-cell foam to go on top of the inflatable mattress to add warmth.

2) My favorite base layer for winter is high-quality microfleece, tights and zip turtleneck. The tights made by Solstice are far better than the other brands I've got. Next layer is full-on fleece, pants and jacket by Patagonia. Top layer is Montane wind pants and jacket. For near-zero weather I put silnylon rain pants and jacket over the preceding. For camp use, it's nice to have an insulated vest or down jacket.

3) Head, hands, and feet are special cases. Turtlefur neck gaiter, hat, and fleece socks are a good base and useful during the day while hiking. For sleeping, an insulated tie-under-the-chin hat can't be beat. A couple of pairs of wools socks can be layered for warmth.

4) The shelters in the Smokies all have fireplaces, and many have tarps hung across them during the winter to keep out the wind. You might want to bring a saw or something to make firewood collection easier so you can heat the place up at night.

5) Don't stint on hot drink mixes (cider mix as well as hot chocolate), hot food, and stove fuel. And make sure your stove will work well in the cold. If she gets really cold during the night, for instance, fire up the stove and make something hot to drink and some hot food.

Rule #1 for the cold-blooded is DO NOT GET CHILLED. As soon as you stop hiking, set up camp and start getting warm. This means getting in the sleeping bag instead of sitting around chatting.

The other piece of advice (close your ears, gents) is that if she needs to pee during the night, advise her to get up and do it. She will be much warmer afterwards. It's the single most warming thing she could do, and she'll feel much better afterwards. Weird, but true.

Have a great hike!

[LIhikers]

4) The shelters in the Smokies all have fireplaces, and many have tarps hung across them during the winter to keep out the wind. You might want to bring a saw or something to make firewood collection easier so you can heat the place up at night.

Skip the shelters, my experience is that a tent is much warmer.

[Egads]

There is a fire ban in GSMNP backcountry and this includes the shelters. The fireplaces will not do much good.

I have a suggestion. Take your SO to Max Patch for a winter assault. You can find great views and be close to the car if you need a quick retreat.

Egads

[Smile]

Take along some Mullein Tea to keep her limbs warm if she gets cold easily, found in just about any health food store

LIHikers is right, go for the tent option. How about two bags that connect? That way you will keep you both warm.

[Marta]

Skip the shelters, my experience is that a tent is much warmer.

For a section hike along the AT in the Smokies tenting is not an option--they'll have to stay in shelters.

If you really want to go crazy, make a Jardine quilt for two for the trip. Then you can loan her some of your body heat.

Or there's the gold-plated solution:
http://www.nunatakusa.com/Sleeping_Bag_Raku.htm

Oddly enough, not long after I made my earlier post, I got a packet from the Scandinavian Tourist Board about winter travel to Finland. There was a little sidebar on dressing for the cold weather. They basically describe the three-layer system Mrs. Gorp recommends--long underwear, fleece, outwear.

[Minerva]

Marta,
You know I'm half "Finn". Wearing silkweights and fleece is my standard Vermont winterwear (for about 11 months ). I wish I had the picture of me wearing a traditional Saami dress that my grandmother once wore. I'm kinda jealous that you get to hike in Finland next year! Send pictures.
MrsG

[MtnTrail]

I get cold too. My experience with bags is they keep me warm until about 15 degrees above their indicated rating. A Kelty 25 down was no match for 38 degrees near a lake. A short pad to save weight was also a bad idea that night. Live and learn. My advice, boost your wife's thermal protection at night with Marta's advice or buy another bag. And I found that sleeping with the next day's socks and clothes inside the bag keeps the toes warmer and the clothes toasty when getting dressed in the cold. To the other posters, all these extra layers to take along, does it go without saying that packing for winter wear extras adds pack weight and volumne?

[JAK]

My wife is also petite and always cold, but not a hiking fanatic.
So you are one step ahead of me, although she does downhill ski.

Lots of clothes. Warm Boots. Wool under Down. Lots of hot drinks.
Also keep her moving, but conserve energy also, and keep her eating.
Have a blast!

[Christopher Robin]

Marta"s has a good list. When I Winter hike or backpacking I use 3-4 layers @ wind pants @top. If you get hot don't take clothes off just venterlate, unzip layers . Also if this is the first time for your wife rent a good Dowm sleeping bag. A quick hot drink is Jello also the rule of thumb w/BS. is hot dinner in 10mins,@ use buatne/propane mix w/higher level of Butane and at night put in a sock at the bottom of your slepping bag.

[Christopher Robin]

P.S. also chose a womans slepping bag, the feet has more fill @ hips more room.

[JAK]

Something to consider also is a good overlap between pants and top. i.e. sweater and jacket that at least cover your butt., and fleece pants that go up to the navel, or long underwear, etc. Its the core area to keep warm. Also the head needs a comfortable light fleece or wool hat, plus some sort of insulated hood for when its really cold. Fur is actually very warm for its weight. She might like that.