Dropping out
Marta... Well spoken...I agree.. Quiting is quiting. There is no justification.Originally Posted by Marta
Grampie-N->2001
The Thruhiking Papers
It may be possible some individuals planning to begin hikes in the next few weeks have not heard of The Thruhiking Papers or read them. Now might be an especially good time to read them for the 1st time or review them.
When re-reading this thread tonight, it occurred to me the portion of the linked reference dealing with one's personal contract and re-negotiating it with one's self is an especially relevant concept to understand.
Sometimes plans must be modified. It's important to understand when one's changing one's contract and its implications.
A hike well-hiked is a wonderful thing as it unfolds and years later too.
Last edited by emerald; 02-08-2008 at 21:56.
The way I would phrase the "devaluing other people's accomplishments" is that there can be an element of sour grapes when people who haven't hiked much, or have started off with big plans and didn't carry them out, are really aggressive about insisting that "I'm just as much of a hiker as you are!"Clured... I agreed with Marta, but I can't quite agree with you. I'm having some trouble putting my unease into words. Something about "sissy nonsense" and "devaluing other people's accomplishments." Yeah, I tried and failed... no doubt about that. Still, your terms are harsh.
On one level that is completely true. Everyone who hikes is a hiker.
But on another level, it shows ignorance and a lack of respect for accomplishment. An amateur cellist and YoYo Ma can come together and celebrate themselves and cellists, and enjoy talking cello together. And the amateur may love his cello passionately...but he is flattering himself mightily if he thinks his understanding of the instrument is as broad or deep as YoYo's. That's the respect thing kicking in.
Hiking isn't a competition. Whatever your background, it's great to come together and enjoy talking about hiking. But...I don't flatter myself that I know everything there is to know about it...or that I am equal in hiking knowledge and experience to people who have hiked two, three, five, or ten times further than I have. I respect what they have done.
People who don't/can't respect accomplishment, in whatever field of endeavor...I hope for their sake that they grow up some day.
If not NOW, then WHEN?
ME>GA 2006
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277
Instagram hiking photos: five.leafed.clover
I especially respect Jim and Ginny. And have rarely found anything in my relatively meager hiking experience to cause me to disagree with them.
If not NOW, then WHEN?
ME>GA 2006
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277
Instagram hiking photos: five.leafed.clover
There's much wisdom distilled from their extensive experiences to be learned from what they've written by those who could benefit from it.
Amen to that.
Sometimes I wonder....Whatever your background, it's great to come together and enjoy talking about hiking.
I don't think you're giving yourself the credit you deserve. How did you learn what you already know? How much is left for you (Marta) to learn? Not much, I suspect.But...I don't flatter myself that I know everything there is to know about it...or that I am equal in hiking knowledge and experience to people who have hiked two, three, five, or ten times further than I have. I respect what they have done.
If you had the time, the inclination, and the wherewithal, I'm sure you could log as many miles as any "hiking god." Any you may yet. Furthermore, there are hikers who've never done a long-distance hike but are 99.9% as knowledgeable about hiking (in all sorts of terrain, conditions, and seasons) as you or Jim or Ginny -- I'm talking about habitual hikers of another sort, eg., peak-baggers in the Whites and the DAKs. (And most likely their west coast and Rocky Mountain equivalents.)
For that matter, there's a certain wisdom possessed by the habitual, lifelong recreational hiker that may be lacking in a thru-hiker who rushes from GA to ME and hangs up his/her boots forever.
Bottom line, I don't really consider hiking to be that much of an "art" (viz., your reference to Yo Yo Ma.) Success at long-distance hiking is more a matter of stubbornness, tenacity and indifference to boredom and discomfort. I suppose it helps when one has a predisposition toward heavy-duty, long-term schlepping out of doors.
Someone who drops out after 30 miles never really wanted to do the AT. They might have BS everyone into believing they did, maybe themselves, but if they gave up that soon face it ... they never wanted to do it in the first place.
Wolf
Do what you want. If you find something better do it. Just don't quit to do what you were doing before.
Well Joed has to have his chance sometime.
Wolf
You had me, but then you lost me.I don't think you're giving yourself the credit you deserve. How did you learn what you already know? How much is left for you (Marta) to learn? Not much, I suspect.
If you had the time, the inclination, and the wherewithal, I'm sure you could log as many miles as any "hiking god." Any you may yet. Furthermore, there are hikers who've never done a long-distance hike but are 99.9% as knowledgeable about hiking (in all sorts of terrain, conditions, and seasons) as you or Jim or Ginny -- I'm talking about habitual hikers of another sort, eg., peak-baggers in the Whites and the DAKs. (And most likely their west coast and Rocky Mountain equivalents.)
For that matter, there's a certain wisdom possessed by the habitual, lifelong recreational hiker that may be lacking in a thru-hiker who rushes from GA to ME and hangs up his/her boots forever.
Bottom line, I don't really consider hiking to be that much of an "art" (viz., your reference to Yo Yo Ma.) Success at long-distance hiking is more a matter of stubbornness, tenacity and indifference to boredom and discomfort. I suppose it helps when one has a predisposition toward heavy-duty, long-term schlepping out of doors.
I think I have a lot more to learn. If I didn't think that each hike would bring new experiences--and the consequent learning--I'd quit doing it and take up some other activities.
How did I learn what I already know? By making mistakes, and having successes. By doing things besides hiking, that have learning which carries over into hiking.
The "if you had the time..." is the crux of the matter. People who have hiked more than I do MADE the time, money, and opportunity happen for themselves. There is not an element of luck operating there--it was a series of decisions on their parts. I respect that.
I think hiking can be an art...and it bears some resemblance to music in the sheer repetitive nature of the practice.
So, all you manly men out there--you're really artists!
Last edited by Marta; 02-09-2008 at 05:46.
If not NOW, then WHEN?
ME>GA 2006
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=3277
Instagram hiking photos: five.leafed.clover
I agree 100%.
To my way of thinking, that should be "Required Reading" for anyone considering a thru hike. Its just that good.
Most of what is out there (including much of what we all read and write here) gives the RIGHT ANSWERS to the WRONG QUESTIONS.
I hope all prospective AT hikers will check out that link. http://www.spiriteaglehome.com/THP%20top.html
I haven't been to WB for a long time now - but Ginny pointed this thread out to me, so here I am.
While we appreciate the kind words that have been said here, there are three things that need to be said -
1. In spite of our apparent (and surprising, at least to me) reputation, y'all need to realize that we're still learning. We're NOT "experts" - just experienced. Or as a young lady in Canada put it last year - "seasoned." We learned some new lessons - and tricks - last summer. We'll learn some more this year. We'll likely even survive the experience - although that's not guaranteed.
2. Part of the "experience/seasoning" has been that there's sometimes a time to "quit". There's an old saw about running away in order to live to fight another day. There's a lot of truth to that. We once quit a trail in PA - 16 miles from finishing. We last year left a trail in Arizona - not because the trail was terrible or too hard - or because we were hurt - or because it was too hot or we had blisters or ... whatever.
We left because we learned long ago that there's a spiritual side to hiking - and you ignore it at your peril. If your heart and gut tell you it's time to leave - then it's time to leave. We left because we were in the right place - at the wrong time. We'll go back - when the time is right.
3. This'll irritate some people - but thruhikers are NOT the "top of the food chain." There are those who hike from Tierra del Fuego to Alaska - there's a Brit who's hiking across Russia even as we speak. There are those who will never thruhike - but hike in places like New Zealand and Switzerland and Nepal and --- other places - who have far more varied experience than thruhikers. But I won't push this point right now -
The last part of the Thruhiking Papers might be of interest in this discussion - try :
http://spiriteaglehome.com/Th%20what%20if.html
Y'all have a good day - I'm going for a walk.
Humility and respect for the accomplishments of others are 2 things all who would through hike should possess.
I also see little point in covering ground that's already been traversed. That's not to say I wouldn't do something twice, but rather I must learn something new in the process or it's wasted time.
I find it interesting that as hikers and others age, in many ways they more than offset losses in their physical capabilities with knowledge that transfers from other experiences. It is indeed better to be a smart hiker than a strong hiker.
Maybe to some people it's only walking, but I think a hike well hiked like a life well lived should be celebrated by those who value these accomplishments.
Last edited by emerald; 02-09-2008 at 13:59.
What a dipstick!!!!!!!You are out of hand-Wolf has got you pegged!
Last edited by Jaybird62; 02-09-2008 at 14:06.
I think a lot of armchair hikers get grandios plans of thru-hiking the AT and actually engoy the months & months spent buying geat and planning all the tiny deatails, then get out on the trail and find out it is work.
My idea of not failing is not saying you are going to do one thing and then not doing it. It is better to not say anything. Let your actions be your words.
Jim is being over-modest here.
There's stuff in the Thru-hiking Papers that is among the best material I've seen when it comes to talking about the Appalachian Trail.
The Owens' essays should be required reading for anyone planning a long hike on the A.T.
Maybe. But for most, I suspect, they never really had any idea about what a thru hike entails.
Jack -
I wouldn't argue with you about this - Momma taught me to never start a fight I didin't want to win.
All I'm saying is that life is a learning process - and we're still learning. Long ago, someone sent this to me. It has, and will continue, to apply to my life -
A thruhike is nothing less than an opportunity to experience a concentrated learning experience - a way to become a better person/human. Not everybody understands or believes that.Rules for Being Human
1. You will receive a body, you may like it or hate it, but it will be yours for the entire period this time around.
2. You will learn lessons. You are enrolled in a full time, informal school called life". Each day in this school you will have the opportunity to learn lessons. You may like the lessons or think them irrelevant and stupid.
3. There are no mistakes, only lessons. Growth is a process of trial and error and experimentation. The "failed" experiments are as much a part of the process as the experiments that ultimately "work".
4. A lesson is repeated until learned. A lesson will be presented to you in various forms until you have learned it. When you have learned it, you can then go on to the next lesson.
5. Learning lessons does not end. There is no part of life that does not contain its lessons. If you are alive, there are lessons to be learned.
6. "There" is no better place than "here". When your "there" has become a "here", you will simply obtain another "there" that will again look better than "here" (which used to be "there".)
7. Others are merely mirrors of you. You cannot love or hate something about another person unless it reflects to you something you love or hate about yourself.
8. What you make of your life is up to you. You have all the tools and resources you need. The choice is yours.
9. Your answers lie inside you. The answer to life's questions lie inside you. All you need to do is look, listen and trust.
10. You will forget all this.
For me, the ultimate prayer is this: "Lord, please make me as good as my dog thinks I am."
I'm not that good - probably never will be. But that's no excuse for not trying.
Thank you for this post. I've seen a few posts from you on this site, and it's nice to know a little backround info. I plan to read the content on your site. Thanks for adding to this site.Jack -
I wouldn't argue with you about this - Momma taught me to never start a fight I didin't want to win.
All I'm saying is that life is a learning process - and we're still learning. Long ago, someone sent this to me. It has, and will continue, to apply to my life -
A thruhike is nothing less than an opportunity to experience a concentrated learning experience - a way to become a better person/human. Not everybody understands or believes that.
For me, the ultimate prayer is this: "Lord, please make me as good as my dog thinks I am."
I'm not that good - probably never will be. But that's no excuse for not trying.
That's my dog, Echo. He's a fine young dog.
The following website presents an interesting case study;
http://www.luckycowboy.org/site.php
This guy took great lengths to promote a hike that took him as far as Gooch Gap. I hope he is still trying to section hike the trail, and while he does, he leaves the video camera and the laptop at home.
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