PCT 2008 Questions

[clured]

Yeah, I think I'll throw my thermarest halfie into the maildrop to Kennedy Meadows along with the axe/canister. What do you use normally, Fiddlehead? I think I may buy the $18 Gossamer Gear Nightlight Torso for the south.

One more (hopefully the last; I'm probably going to send off my big gear order sometime in the next couple days). What the deal with bugs? Big problem, or manageable with normal stuff? I got eaten alive in Maine last summer, and I don't want to repeat that. As in, do I need to carry some kind of real bug protection, or can I get by with DEET/headnet at night? It boils down to: tarp + bivy, or some kind of bug proof shelter, like the SMD Wild Oasis?

You guys kick a$s,
-David

[A-Train]

Yeah, I think I'll throw my thermarest halfie into the maildrop to Kennedy Meadows along with the axe/canister. What do you use normally, Fiddlehead? I think I may buy the $18 Gossamer Gear Nightlight Torso for the south.

One more (hopefully the last; I'm probably going to send off my big gear order sometime in the next couple days). What the deal with bugs? Big problem, or manageable with normal stuff? I got eaten alive in Maine last summer, and I don't want to repeat that. As in, do I need to carry some kind of real bug protection, or can I get by with DEET/headnet at night? It boils down to: tarp + bivy, or some kind of bug proof shelter, like the SMD Wild Oasis?

You guys kick a$s,
-David

I value my sanity, so I liked having a tarptent with netting. I also carried a headnet and Deet for when I stopped to cook or eat. Overall, the bugs weren't as bad as they were made out to be, but there were a couple places near Bear Creek that were pretty terrible. Also, most of Yosemite was really buggy and unpleasant (and hot, and filled with PUDS, but that's another story....lol).

In general I didn't find the bugs too bad on the PCT. Now that I think of it, Wallace Creek north of Crabtree Meadows was bad too.

[fiddlehead]

Clured:
I remember bugs (mosquitoes) being bad for about a week or two only.
It was in the Sierras north of Tuollume was the worst. I was ok with a bugnet.

If i was going out again, i think i would sew about 6" of bugnetting to the bottom perimeter of my sil-shelter and still take a headnet.
i personally don't like deet on me but i know it's the norm to use it.

I don't know how much weight you like to carry but you will surely carry more in the Sierras already. (I don't mind trading some comfort for less weight, and feel if you hike hard enough, you will get the good nights sleep anyway) (and i think i remember that you plan to hike pretty hard and fast, that's my style too)
I would probably (now that i'm 57) substitute a ridge rest and send my blue foam (i only use a half) ahead. I still wouldn't carry the thermorest unless it was springtime (before June) when it is colder. That's an extra lb isn't it?

[clured]

Hmm..my Yogi's book just came in (it's fab!). Is she really right about the no-trail runners in the south? I'm really, really reluctant to give up my Montrail Hardrocks (they fit my feet perfectly), but if it's really true that they would be too insulating, I guess I'll do so.. I mean, how much of a difference in ventilation could there be between Hardrocks and an Asics running shoe? Also, as a track/cc runner in high school, I know that running shoes are not designed for walking - it's a totally different motion. What gives?

Also, for about an hour tonight I was considering getting the GoLite Pinnacle instead of the Jam; it's about 4oz heavier, but you get like 1,200 extra cubes. I'm thinking about packing out of Kennedy Meadows..bear canister, lots of food, down jacket.

[fiddlehead]

Not sure why you wouldn't want trail runners in the south (desert)
I thought that's where Jardine FIRST started braggin them up?

i know i wouldn't trade mine (Montrail Vitesse's) for much of anything different in that situation. I haven't been on that trail since 2002 but the only thing i think is different is all the fires they have. Probably make for dirtier feet at least.

[Marta]

I think she's talking about trail runners that have some sort of vapor barrier in them. I got a pair like that a few years ago--very hot. The ones I normally use are very breathable and cool. It's hard to tell the difference by looking at them. Read the fine print in the description of your shoe.

[vaporjourney]

Yogi isn't trying to turn you back to boots, but she argues that you should wear 'normal' running shoes because they are lighter and more breathable than trail runners. So, 'normal' shoes have less support underneath, typically, but will allow your feet to breathe more.

My solution has been to switch from Hardrocks to Inov-8 Terroc 330's. I've noticed a pretty big difference in the amount of air flow that reach my feet. When I go running with my Inov-8's, my feet sweat a lot less, which is CRUCIAL in the desert. I also really appreciate a little extra wiggle room in the toebox, although it isn't necessary with my narrow feet.

If you hate wearing DEET as I do, consider finding some really breathable clothing for the High Sierra that you could also use in other parts of the trail. I'm going to have a long-sleeved RailRiders shirt with mesh in the sides, as well as RailRiders Eco-Mesh pants which have mesh that lines the sides of the pants. Spray the mesh with Permithin which lasts for weeks, and bugs will leave your arms and legs alone. In really buggy meadows, wear a BPL Headnet, which has pores small enough to block mosquitos, but not much else. Then again, Noseeums aren't as common on the PCT, and definitely no midges. The larger pore size allows you to actually hike in the headnet without overheating like noseeum netting causes, and it also gives you MUCH better visibility.

For bugproof shelter, I'm experimenting this year, and hope that it doesn't fail! I'll be using a bivy on the whole trip for an extra 10 degrees of warmth and to eliminate drafts in my quilt. I've had bug netting sewn around the head that zips shut when need be. I'm hoping to have my head totally enclosed by this netting that will zip shut at the chest, and this netting will be suspended from my face by pulling the netting upward with a string attached to my tarps ridgeline. So, the bivy will be extremely multi-purpose: 1) groundcloth, 2) additional warmth, 3) dew protection when cowboy camping, and 4) bug protection. All for 8 oz.

[TwoForty]

Hmm..my Yogi's book just came in (it's fab!). Is she really right about the no-trail runners in the south? I'm really, really reluctant to give up my Montrail Hardrocks (they fit my feet perfectly), but if it's really true that they would be too insulating, I guess I'll do so.. I mean, how much of a difference in ventilation could there be between Hardrocks and an Asics running shoe? Also, as a track/cc runner in high school, I know that running shoes are not designed for walking - it's a totally different motion. What gives?

Also, for about an hour tonight I was considering getting the GoLite Pinnacle instead of the Jam; it's about 4oz heavier, but you get like 1,200 extra cubes. I'm thinking about packing out of Kennedy Meadows..bear canister, lots of food, down jacket.

I'll probably try on some road running shoes, but I can't imagine anyhting having more ventilation that my Salomon XA Prd 3D trail runners.

[A-Train]

Hmm..my Yogi's book just came in (it's fab!). Is she really right about the no-trail runners in the south? I'm really, really reluctant to give up my Montrail Hardrocks (they fit my feet perfectly), but if it's really true that they would be too insulating, I guess I'll do so.. I mean, how much of a difference in ventilation could there be between Hardrocks and an Asics running shoe? Also, as a track/cc runner in high school, I know that running shoes are not designed for walking - it's a totally different motion. What gives?

Also, for about an hour tonight I was considering getting the GoLite Pinnacle instead of the Jam; it's about 4oz heavier, but you get like 1,200 extra cubes. I'm thinking about packing out of Kennedy Meadows..bear canister, lots of food, down jacket.

I'd tend to agree with Yogi, unfortunately. I had two pairs of what I thought were perfectly good trail runners (Hardrocks and Vasque Velocity) give my feet tremendous problems (blisters) at the start. As soon as I switched to a breathable light New Balance sneaker, no problems. Used Brooks sneakers the rest of the way with no blisters.

Some people wore trailrunners in the desert and made out OK, but I'd be skeptical (have another pair ready to be mailed) if they're not working out. Although I love shoes like the Hardrock and Continental Divide, unfortunately they don't offer as much breathability as a running shoe.

[Sly]

I'm confused> I've used NB 800 series and a pair ventilated Merrell's (Chameleon's?)in the desert and was fine. Those are trail runners.

[clured]

Well this sucks. This means that all the experimentation before/on the AT that led to the choice of Montrail is useless. Something tells me that the probability of finding the equivalently right running shoe on the first stab is pretty small. Anyone else know about that innov-8 brand? They look good, but I've never heard of it. Right now I'm leaning towards Asics + superfeet, because that is kind on me as a runner (although I'm still unconvinced that this has anything to do with how good they will be as walkers..)

[Sly]

You don't know how your feet are going to react. I didn't have any blisters on the PCT. Of course, if you're starting in May, it's going to be hotter. I wouldn't worry to much. I think there's an outfitter in Idyllwild

[vaporjourney]

I agree with Sly. I'd say try to find some shoes that fit you and seem to have lots of breathable mesh. The Inov-8s work for me, but you may find some other normal running shoes that are just as good. If you get some normal running shoes that lack the support of trail runners, just do as you suggested clured, and throw in a pair of superfeet.

[yappy]

I love my hard rocks. I didn't have blisters on the pct either. I was wearing adidas trail response at the time. they were awesome. Don't make them anymore though, at least i think. Wearing a liner alone will help keep your feet cool too.

[vaporjourney]

I have thought about switching to thinner socks, but hate the lack of durability. I've worn liner socks alone, and they didn't last any longer than a week. Maybe liner socks over liner socks?

[yappy]

really ?.. wow, my liners last a LONG time. I use smart wools most of the time. what kind do ya use ?

did i meet you in 05 ?..

[neighbor dave]

fishnet stockings, come with holes and are very stylish

[Dogwood]

I used a very battered 20 degree down bag, liner and WM Flight down jacket in June in the Sierra. Mighta been a little overkill, but there were some cold nights and mornings. Basically depends. Are you a cold sleeper? I'd say you can get by without it, but a jacket gives you flexibility. What if you wanna camp high at a fabulous location? What if you wanna hang out in the evening and watch a sunset, or get up early and watch the sunruse?

The Sierras are phenomenal, take your time and soak them in. The whole PCT is awesome, but I don't think I appreciated the Sierra's grandeur until after I was gone.

Thank U A-Train for all your well earned and savvy trail advice!!!

[clured]

I've been looking around and I think I'm going to go try on some of those innov8 shoes and see how they fit. If I don't like them, I'll start with some hardrocks (on sale for $50 at altrec.com), and if I get shredded in the first couple days I'll buy something else at Idyllwild.

As for clothing, I think I'm going to just stack up a lot of layers in stead of buying a down jacket, which I can't really afford at this point. For the coldest of the cold, I'll have my nylon shirt, an old Capilene2 top, a new Capilene4 crew, a Mountain Hard Wear fleece, and a GoLite goretex shell.

[Sly]

I

The Sierras are phenomenal, take your time and soak them in. The whole PCT is awesome, but I don't think I appreciated the Sierra's grandeur until after I was gone.

I kind of felt that way about the desert too.