Scouts invade the AT in NY this weekend!

[Ashman]

Good for you Tin, enjoy your hike! One of my hiking partners this week is a Scout Dad. He tells me about the logistics and rules that BSA requires as far as buddy systems, adult to kid ratios and what not, you are to be commended. Give us a report when you get back.

[Thoughtful Owl]

I don't know what I did, but I got 20 boys in our Scout Troop (out of 24 registered), plus 7 adults to sign-up for backpacking this weekend. We usually get 10-12 boys and 3 adults. This is their first non-car camping trip for all of these boys and most of the adults. I made everyone buy the food and pack everything up, gear and all, at our regular meeting this week. It was a very different process and we had to scale back in quite a few areas as you could imagine. But, it seemed like everyone had fun squeezing it all in and they are very excited to get going. So, we are ready...I hope. And I hope we don't get the rain that is predicted.

Anyone hiking the AT near NY's Fahnestock State Park this Saturday may want to take note - we are coming through! Not to worry though, we are camping at nearby Durland Scout Reservation (formerly Clear Lake).

I am pretty sure I am going to wish I never talked about hiking or the AT by the time this weekend is over.

Been there and had no regrets. Most of the scouts loved it and enjoy backpacking more than the car camping. It was quite entertaining when the scouts came to the troop meeting before the outing with their bp's all loaded up and we started the pack inspections. I weighed each scouts bp before inspecting and then again after we pulled a ton of unnecessary gear out. Although I had given them a list of what they would need, there was much unnecessary gear added. Everyone got a good laugh and an excellent lesson that evening.

Hope you have great weather and like someone else mentioned, remind the young men they are scouts and a scout is supposed to "be prepared" even for inclimate weather. And like Ashman mentioned, give us a report when you get back.

WWW

[envirodiver]

Regarding gear and food, I managed to get the boys weighed in between 23-30 pounds, mostly proportional to the size of the boy, including food for 4 meals. The troop gear is heavier than I like to carry, but manageable.

Good for you Tin Man. That's a decent weight for a newbi. I have so many kids and parents coming in to the REI where I work, with no concept that the stuff they buy is going to be carried on their back and what that feels like. The parents are the worst, wanting to make sure the kids have clean underwear and multiple changes of clothes. Pick out a lot of uneccessary, yet cool stuff. I try to talk to them about the pleasure of not carrying the kitchen sink. Some listen, some don't. They will all learn.

Wish my scout troop had been a backpacking troop, instead of just car camping. I might have begun earlier to backpack myself. I still kick myself that I missed out on those college years when I did actually have the time to do long extended hikes, no bills, etc.

Enjoy.

[deeddawg]

Although I had given them a list of what they would need, there was much unnecessary gear added. Everyone got a good laugh and an excellent lesson that evening.

In my experience in many years of Scouting, the worst offenders of adding gear are the boys' mothers. "Here, honey, you need to take this additional warm coat. Oh, don't forget to spare pairs of jeans. Better take a couple cans of stew."

When planning a backpacking outing, we'd run two parallel discussions in separate rooms. One for the boys, the other for the parents. The second would focus on not adding unnecessary items, where to get good deals on gear, what to get and not to get, and basically how to best ensure Junior's first backpacking trip was something he'd enjoy.

[StepChld]

As an ASM of a troop that hasn't done much more than car camping, I'm actively listening to all the advice here. This year/season I think will be the turning point in our troop. Up until this summer, we've had two distinct age groups in our troop...older boys of 15+ and a really large group of younger boys that are all turning 13 in the next couple of months. Our older boys have done Philmont (last summer) and only now are our younger boys getting the bug to backpack. We've been so busy doing TFC, that backpacking has been secondary...until now. We're to late to take any serious trips here in Texas (from June until late September it's way to hot for a "first time" backpacking experiance) but this fall I do believe our PLC will come up with some good events for the troop.
So please, give us an After-Action Report!

[Thoughtful Owl]

This is really a good thread. I hope everyone will keep it going. There's a lot we can learn from one another. After all, that's why I joined WB to begin with.

[Tin Man]

I did invite the parents for a packing class a couple of weeks ago. I told them to target 15-20 pounds for pack, sleeping bag/pad and personal gear. The mothers still put in too much stuff and additional clothing. I took out all but one change of clothes. The boys rarely change anyway. I told them they only need to change if they get wet and rain is predicted this weekend. I also told them to get a headlamp or a flashlight that takes only triple-A batteries and still I saw some d-cells. But they are learning.

[deeddawg]

One other thing I remembered. There's nothing that drives the point home quite as well as showing a comparison of lightweight backpacking vs. heavyweight backpacking. We'd also bring in a lightweight pack setup with stuff like a lightweight tent, small cannister stove, single pot, etc. -- what most here would consider a middle of the road setup. Also have a "bad example" setup with the giant dome tent, 5lb sleeping bag, half a dozen nalgene bottles, stainless steel 5-pot&pan set, etc. What you might end up with if you did all your outfitting at Walmart and didn't know any better.

Then get the mothers to hoist the two different packs and walk around with them a little bit.

[Tin Man]

Wish my scout troop had been a backpacking troop, instead of just car camping. I might have begun earlier to backpack myself. I still kick myself that I missed out on those college years when I did actually have the time to do long extended hikes, no bills, etc.

Don't kick yourself too much. I loved backpacking as a scout, then quit around 17 and didn't start again until I turned 30.

[envirodiver]

That's about the same age I got going. First trip I thought to myself, why have I not been doing this forever?

It's good to show these kids the outdoors and do it with personal experience and in the proper manner.

Great idea Deedawg to get the Mom's to actually hoist and carry the different packs. The cotton concept is also one that's hard to get across for winter trips.

[RevLee]

Our troop has also been evolving from the strictly car camping mindset for a couple of years now. In the fall we have a hiking/backpacking campout with the younger scouts day hiking carrying a small pack, while the middle scouts get their introduction to backpacking. Then for the older scouts we have a couple of 3-4 day trips, one over spring break and another in the fall.

It can be challenging getting the middle scouts moving on the trail. We do a shakedown before the trip, but they always show up with extra stuff hanging (and swinging and dragging) on the outside of the pack. Keeping them moving is definitely an experience. One time the front of the line stopped to rest before the back of the line even got moving.

I don't know what your options are for locations, but we prefer national forests to national parks. The parks are more restrictive on where you can camp and group sizes on the trail.


The meetings before the campout, we cover gear, clothing, cooking, sanitation, and LNT, but the favorite is the "What not to bring" demonstration by the older scouts. They will come in with packs full of cotton clothes, huge flashlights, shovels, electric fan (with extension cord), boombox, bowling ball, etc.

[Thoughtful Owl]

Our troop has also been evolving from the strictly car camping mindset for a couple of years now. In the fall we have a hiking/backpacking campout with the younger scouts day hiking carrying a small pack, while the middle scouts get their introduction to backpacking. Then for the older scouts we have a couple of 3-4 day trips, one over spring break and another in the fall.

It can be challenging getting the middle scouts moving on the trail. We do a shakedown before the trip, but they always show up with extra stuff hanging (and swinging and dragging) on the outside of the pack. Keeping them moving is definitely an experience. One time the front of the line stopped to rest before the back of the line even got moving.

I don't know what your options are for locations, but we prefer national forests to national parks. The parks are more restrictive on where you can camp and group sizes on the trail.


The meetings before the campout, we cover gear, clothing, cooking, sanitation, and LNT, but the favorite is the "What not to bring" demonstration by the older scouts. They will come in with packs full of cotton clothes, huge flashlights, shovels, electric fan (with extension cord), boombox, bowling ball, etc.

Neat idea. I think I will share this with my SPL and see about them doing something like this with our newly bridged scouts. Will include the parents in this meeting, as I am sure it will be a roar.

WWW
SM T37

[cannonball]

Actually AT treks are a very economically feasable alternative to Philmont. It appears to me that an AT section hike could be pulled off from almost any state in the east to mid west for a fraction of the cost of going to philmont.

[Tin Man]

Actually AT treks are a very economically feasable alternative to Philmont. It appears to me that an AT section hike could be pulled off from almost any state in the east to mid west for a fraction of the cost of going to philmont.

That may be true, but Philmont is the big Kahuna for Scouts.

[cannonball]

I fully agree that philmont is "mecca" for scouting. This year a trek from Tallahassee, Fl. is in excess of 2,200 beans. Plus our council wants to skim 10 per cent of in addition.
As a parent of 3 kids in Parochial schools there is no way I could ever take my son or send him alone to philmont.
In all my days as a scout leader there has always been the fact that places like Philmont and Northern teir are for the afluent.
My stance is purely an economic one. I have no doubt that Philmont is the crown jewel. Just sorry that alot of us in scouting will never be able to "grab the golden ring".

[Blissful]

Rats.

My hubby is taking out his troop this weekend backpacking Big Schloss on the VA / WV border. Right now he has three scouts and one assistant signed to go. The assistant and his son will likely cancel if they hear it's projected to rain this Saturday. But I told him to take the other 2 anyway. He can't get his troop to backpack to save their lives. And cold weather or rain? Forget it.

[cannonball]

Rats.

My hubby is taking out his troop this weekend backpacking Big Schloss on the VA / WV border. Right now he has three scouts and one assistant signed to go. The assistant and his son will likely cancel if they hear it's projected to rain this Saturday. But I told him to take the other 2 anyway. He can't get his troop to backpack to save their lives. And cold weather or rain? Forget it.

Theres this little thing called 2 deep leadership.............

[Thoughtful Owl]

I have had to cancel backpacking and/or other trips because I couldn't get other adult leaders to go. The scouts were very disapointed. I explained to them there wasn't anything I could do. I have to have two deep leadership. Well the scouts talked to their parents and now if I don't have a second leader to go along, one of the scouts will make a call home to his parents and usually one of them will come up with a parent to go along. The last trip out was a dad whom had never been out backpacking before. He told me again last night how much he enjoyed the outing and wanted to know when we could go again. He was so much like his son it was incredible.

WWW

[Tin Man]

I fully agree that philmont is "mecca" for scouting. This year a trek from Tallahassee, Fl. is in excess of 2,200 beans. Plus our council wants to skim 10 per cent of in addition.
As a parent of 3 kids in Parochial schools there is no way I could ever take my son or send him alone to philmont.
In all my days as a scout leader there has always been the fact that places like Philmont and Northern teir are for the afluent.
My stance is purely an economic one. I have no doubt that Philmont is the crown jewel. Just sorry that alot of us in scouting will never be able to "grab the golden ring".

Wow, $2,200 is high. The CT Yankee council is charging $1,550 this year, which includes some neat stuff like a day of white water rafting and other neat stops. Have you considered a fund raiser? Some of the boys in our troop have raised money for their high adventure trips.

[Blissful]

Theres this little thing called 2 deep leadership.............

Yeah, you're right, forgot that.

Okay, so we'll hope the other guy doesn't cancel or it's another trip down the drain. One time I went because there wasn't another leader (I was made assistant with the paperwork). But I can't go this weekend.