Boost my bag

[Swiss Roll]

So I take Yazoo's advice and buy a Montbell UL SS bag from Modern Mountain Man, but there's one problem. They were sold out of the #2 so I had to get the #3, see? That won't be a biggie for me most of the time because I am a slouching, back-sliding, mouth-breathing fair weather hiker. But here's the deal, I'm hiking the High Sierra trail in late September and I'm thinking that a 30 degree bag ain't gonna be enough. I have looked at a silk liner (+10F) and the other day a guy told me that I could make a bivy out of two trash bags. I don't know what to do. Do you lightweight experts (I meant that in a good way) have any suggestions?

[Creepy Uncle]

find a 40+ degree bag on sale at the end of summer and double up if it gets cold.

i'd avoid the trash bag trick as it will collect condensation and soak your down overnight.

[High Altitude]

Sleep in insulated pants and jacket.

[Dirtygaiters]

A silk liner will add about 4-5*F to your bag, but unless you sleep in just boxers, they can get a little tangled up (but to each his own). You can make a bivy with breathable ripstop nylon and add some windproofness to your sleeping bag (if you sleep under a tarp or in a very airy tent like an MSR Hubba, this will be much more noticeable). An overbag is an option, but if you ask me, there's a lot of extra weight in an overbag that you have to carry as opposed to if you simply had an adequately rated sleeping bag. Do you have a down jacket? Wearing that inside your sleeping bag will add a lot of warmth. Another option is to get a piece of raw continuous filament insulation such as Climashield XP and simply use it as an "insert". It will add warmth at a proportional weight increase to if you had simply brought a warmer bag.

[bigcranky]

Before I had a winter bag, I used a 30-F bag (WM Megalite) down into the teens with proper clothing. Fleece tights, wool socks, a microfleece zip-tee, and a down jacket add a lot of warmth inside the bag. I sometimes added down booties if I know the weather will be very cold (but now I usually just take my winter bag.)

This is a useful way to "multipurpose" your gear -- you'll want warm clothing around camp anyway. The only thing to be careful about it having enough room inside the bag for the down jacket to loft up (and not compress the bag's insulation.)

[YaZOO]

Swiss Roll;

Congrats on your purchase. Id like to give you a few ideas as to how I cope with very cold nights.

If you carry nalgene or equivalent bottles, you can boil water and pour the hot liquid into the container just before bedtime. This creates a great heat source for warming up the air space inside your bag plus you have warm water for morning coffee that is. Now on another note, in particular to the Montbell design, you may have noticed that theres a feature called "Super stretch". This patented idea is why you do not see as much down compared to Western mountaineering bags. Montbell used their noggins by eleminating as much dead air space as possible in order to make the bag as effective as possible. They also made the bags lighter, more compressable, ect, ect. and NO its not a PLOY toward MONTBELL.

Another idea is common sense. Dress as warm as possible. Put on your insulated cloths, shirt, socks , 2 if you have them and then tuck infor the night. Another thing that I have learned and not many have ever mentioned this; with your insulation on, do a few jumping jacks or run standing in 1 spot. This will raise your body temperature but, be very careful not to over do it. If you sweat your gonna be in trouble. HYPOTHERMIA

Another is using an emergency blanket. If you do not have enough cloths, and your SOL not having a nalgene, this is something that I have used many times to trap heat in while sleeping. 1 catch. You just cant use a regular emergency blanket like a flat sheet of fabric. You must have one similar to what "adventure medical" company sells. It looks like a bivy / sleeping bag. If you use it as an outer protective shell... the chances of heat escaping are greatly reduced... & you have added protection to your bag. Be sure to leave it open a bit so that condensation doesnt occur.

You can use these ideas individually, in unison, or all 3 together to have a nice warm nights sleep. I will say that I havent used a silk liner before and just before my AT thru hilke in 09, Im going to get me one of those liners and try it out.

Just remember about down. Never get it wet from sweat, water, anything liquid, or your screwed. Make your bag, fire, & shelter the most important pieces of equipment and you'll never go wrong.

Oh, you made the right choice on the #3, a #2 is good for winter but, the #3 is at 30 degrees which is the median for me. I have the #3 and from personal experience its perfect from 70 down to 5 F( using a warm nalgene & emergency blanket combo).

Good luck on what you decide to boost your bag.

[Lyle]

When stretching a three season bag into winter, down to 12 below, I found an extra, full-length pad underneath, a warmer balaclava or down hood that many quilt manufacturers sell (Jacks or Better for one) and a big plus are down booties (much warmer than any kind of socks and more comfortable too). As others have said, adding any other insulating layers helps tremendously.

A warmer bag would be more compact and easier, but you can use most any bag you have, within reason, and take it much lower than it's rated temp.

Just for encouragement. Three years ago I did some hiking in the Mt. Whitney area in September. Camped two nights at over 11,500 ft. It was windy, lakes had a skim of ice each morning, water bladders froze. I had a 35* bag, silk liner, light PolyPro long underwear, medium fleece hat, 3/4 length pad, and I added a cheap emergency blanket underneath the insulating pad. Thought I could wrap up in it if necessary - wasn't. Sleeping under a simple tarp, with quite strong winds I remained more than just comfortable, slept great! Still had several layers in reserve I could have used if needed.

You should be fine if you pick out which of the many suggestions given so far you want to use to supplement. Have fun!

[TwoForty]

The silk liner will net you a few degrees at best. They are nice though. The trahsbag idea will guarantee you wake up soaked.

First, upgrade your sleeping pad to something warmer or add another light closed cell pad. You could also sleep in a tent, but that sucks in the Sierra. A bivy would be a great choice for warmth, and it's lighter as well.

You will sleep warmer if you drink tons of water through out your day and eat a nice dessert like a Snickers bar. Hot water in a bottle can save you when it gets really cold. Also, make sure you don't camp down in a gully where cold air sinks.

Wear a very warm hat, or balaclava that time of the year. Down booties are also nice. I would sleep in your base layer with the option of fleece pants and a fleece jacket or two.

Enjoy the HST. It's one of my favs.

[Wags]

cleaning yourself off before you go to bed also boosts your warmth. so does a cup of hot tea. i also try to get in my bag and stay in it. i feel if i get in and out, get in, unzip 1/2 way, zip back up, unzip some more, etc. i never feel as warm as if i just get in my bag, zip up, and stay there.

[Wags]

i also heard of putting your foot into a grocery or bread bag inbetween sock layers to keep feet warm. haven't tried it yet but tbh, i'm kind of interested to see if it works...

[envirodiver]

A warm hat to sleep in helps me a lot during the night. Make sure that it is a hat that stays put.

Also, when it's cold a chocolate bar eaten just before bed helps keep the fire burning for a while, plus it's tasty.

[buz]

I think you have got all the suggestions you need. You just have to pick the ones that work for you. Forget the trash bag one thou.

IMO, this is what I would choose out of the above ones in no certain order.

If I was cold before bed: Hot drink, add extra hot water to nalgene, put in bag. Food to eat, jumping jacks, hop in bed.

Just to make sure I was warm enough/stretch your bag: No liner for me, I am tosser/turner and they don't work, feel like knot in the morning. Hat/balaclava, new, unworn warm socks that stay in the bag or booties, bottom and top clothing layers that multitask, good to go. I personally don't like to wear bulky clothes to bed, but if you are carrying insulation layers and don't want to wear them, throw them in bag to take up space.

I would have also considered my pad/bottom layer before leaving and either bulked up or added something if needed.

Good luck, I bought the #3, sleep tested it at 30 and it didn't work for me. I returned it and got a 2. But it was just a test, and i was in light base layer with socks and light hat.
If i was planning, and had the right stuff, it would have worked at lower temp,I'm sure.

[kytrailman]

Keep the thirty degree bag and sleep in more clothes if you have to. Why pack two bags or two things that you need to make into one complete bag. Liner are over-rated and just extra bulk and weight. i carried a 30 degree all winter this year with no probs. If the temp dipped too much-- I would just slip on any extra clothes I had. It really is a matter of preference. Some people can't stand to wear all of their clothes to bed( smell and comfort). Personally-- I don't care.

[Swiss Roll]

Thanks for the help. BTW, I think I'm in love with the bag. I upgraded from a BA synthetic (which is not a bad bag at all) and I feel like I have hit the jackpot. The first day I got it, several times I laid it out on the living room floor and just hung out in it. The next day I took a nap and used it as a blanket. The wife is so used to seeing me carry it around the house, she has started calling it my security blanket. I'm going to use it this weekend while at Indian Princess camp with my daughter, but I can't wait to get out on the trail with it.

[wilconow]

Liner are over-rated and just extra bulk and weight.

What about liners helping the bag stay clean???

[Lyle]

What about liners helping the bag stay clean???

They help, and are much easier to launder occasionally than the bag itself. A set of long johns and sleep socks accomplish the same if you prefer that route. The goal is to keep your body oils in something that is easy to launder rather than in your bag.

[astrogirl]

So I take Yazoo's advice and buy a Montbell UL SS bag from Modern Mountain Man, but there's one problem. They were sold out of the #2 so I had to get the #3, see? That won't be a biggie for me most of the time because I am a slouching, back-sliding, mouth-breathing fair weather hiker. But here's the deal, I'm hiking the High Sierra trail in late September and I'm thinking that a 30 degree bag ain't gonna be enough. I have looked at a silk liner (+10F) and the other day a guy told me that I could make a bivy out of two trash bags. I don't know what to do. Do you lightweight experts (I meant that in a good way) have any suggestions?

I have had to boost my quilt while out on the AT this year. Currently I'm in Franklin, NC. It's been colder than I expected, and I switched to a hammock this year.

I got a Mylar sheet out of the hiker box in neel's gap. I'm using it under my 3/4 ccf pad and pitching the hammock low. I also use a silk liner and I concur that 5' max.

I slept in blue mtn. Shelter expecting that to be warmer, big mistake. Wind stole all my heat, and the raised wood floor got the rest.


Went to ground on standing indian and slept as well as I ever do on the ground. Pitched the hammock at big spring shelter last night (5000 ft). Had 2 uncomfortable hours, but more net sleep than the other nights.

I'd go for the emergency blanket. Try it under and over, whatever works for you, but get out of the wind!

[whitefoot_hp]

the trashbag idea is not bad if you cut ventilation slits/holes/gaps/gorges

[boarstone]

Thanks for the help. BTW, I think I'm in love with the bag. I upgraded from a BA synthetic (which is not a bad bag at all) and I feel like I have hit the jackpot. The first day I got it, several times I laid it out on the living room floor and just hung out in it. The next day I took a nap and used it as a blanket. The wife is so used to seeing me carry it around the house, she has started calling it my security blanket. I'm going to use it this weekend while at Indian Princess camp with my daughter, but I can't wait to get out on the trail with it.

Practice...practice...practice...w/it under the conditons of the trail you expect to encounter before you leave the back yard..find the setup that keeps your body the warmth you want. Swap out different layers of clothes until it's what will work for you....much safer than on the trail and find out it doesn't work...!