Marmot Helium 15* bag 34 oz
Tarptent w/stakes, stuff sack, poles 34.5
ULA P-1 32
Ridge Rest 8.8
Total 109.3
6 lb 13 oz.
Lot lighter than it used to be!
fly.fast
Slim aka Nancy, et al,
As we move to the winter season it is time to review bottom insulation....it is as important as top insulation...perhaps even more so...Going to a bigger/thicher bag does virtually nothing for the bottom....The pad is the key to winter comfort...what is under you compresses by weight of appropriate body parts...3/4 pads leave your legs and feet virtually exposed on the bottom....like wise 1/4 - 3/8 in pads may be fine in the summer but are minimal to inadequate as the temperature drops...consider thicker to be warmer.
Each to there own...just my $ 0.02.
Pan
ounces to grams
WWW.JACKSRBETTER.COM home of the Nest and No Sniveler underquilts and Bear Mtn Bridge Hammock
Pack: ULA P-1 - 31 oz.
Shelter: Hennessy ULB (with stakes and extra cord for the tarp) - 33 oz.
Bag: Quilt made from Ray-Way kit (including stuff sack) - 28 oz.
Pad: Underquilt made from cut up TNF 40* rectangle bag (including stuff sack and cord) - 24oz
Total: 116 oz. (7 1/4 lbs)
I was starting to freak out seeing this was at least a pound or more heavier than most, but realized this was the ULTRA light forum I was in. I can sleep well knowing I'm at least within shouting distance of you guys.
go with what works for you... i use a blue foam pad and a gust pack... you use something else. that accounts for about a 21 oz difference between your load and mine... our bags are 6-7 oz different. that has to do with where i hike. as you get more comfortable with your equipment, you can change to something you think might work better... don't try to keep up with others... learn from them, but hyoh...
good luck on your hike. (wish it was me going!)
A few years ago, as a gift, I got an Alps Mountaineering polarguard sleeping bag. The bag is made to be flipped depending on the temp and the rating is 20/30 degrees. This rating has always confused me a bit. One side of the sleeping bag has clearly thicker insulation than the other.
I've been debating with my girlfriend as to what side should be on top to make it 20 deg? And what should be on top to make it 30 deg?
I think your post has cleared it up for me but just wanted to make sure I understand.
If adding thicker sleeping bag insulation does nothing more for bottom insulation then the following is true for my bag, correct?
20 degrees = thicker insulation side on top, thin side on bottom
30 degrees = thinner side up, thicker insulation on the bottom
If I'm wrong, please set me straight. I know this is probably "sleeping bag 101" but I just want to make sure.
thanks -g
Originally Posted by peter_pan
You are correct......The key assumption, however, is that you have an adequate pad, including leg coverage, for the conditions under you, since that is the true bottom insulator.
Pan
ounces to grams
WWW.JACKSRBETTER.COM home of the Nest and No Sniveler underquilts and Bear Mtn Bridge Hammock
Thank you.You are correct...
Pan
Do manufacturers assume the use of a sleeping pad when they come up with their degree ratings? Or do they test as if one is on the ground w/ no pad, bivy, tarp,etc?
I have also seen ratings on different sleeping pads - an "R value". Does this number directly relate to the degrees added to the sleeping bag rating? My ProLite 3 has a "R Value" rating of 2.3. What does this mean when used with my 40 deg sleeping bag?
By the way, to stay on thread topic, my "CORE 4" are:
Osprey Aether 60 56oz, 3.5lbs
Big Agnes Seedhouse SL1 w/footprint/stakes 53oz, 3.3lbs
ProLite 3 TermaRest 20oz 1.25lb
Montbell SuperStretch #5 19oz 1.2lbs
TOTAL: 148oz, 9.25lbs
Pan,
You are correct. I use a shortened (18x68") blue closed cell foam mat (10 oz.) in the winter. Z-rests are not good in the winter. I have used this system on the ground in January at 16 degrees with no cold spots.
If I would feel my legs/feet getting cold I would put my clothes in the toe box of the sleeping bag and/or use my space blanket. All are still within my UL philosophy. I still save 10.5 lb. compared to my former gear.
My tent has 360* air flow and it brings in that cold winter air if not tarped down low. But it also helps avoid the condensation problem.
Respectfully submitted,
Slim
IN reference to schwartzman's post on R factor
Do manufacturers assume the use of a sleeping pad when they come up with their degree ratings? Or do they test as if one is on the ground w/ no pad, bivy, tarp,etc?
I have also seen ratings on different sleeping pads - an "R value". Does this number directly relate to the degrees added to the sleeping bag rating? My ProLite 3 has a "R Value" rating of 2.3. What does this mean when used with my 40 deg sleeping bag?"
It's a rating used in physics to determine how much energy is transferred between the two sides of an object. Thermal porosity or insulative rating so to speak.. This rating is used by builders to determine the R value or insulative value that various materials or single/double pane windows maintain when constructing buildings.
I was surprised to see that thermarest had used this value but it is helpful and is a standard measurement for insulating properties
Gschwartznan , et al.
How each manufacture figures their bag ratings is best a question for each manufacturer…There is a great deal of variance out there … Frequently you will see statements that , "assumes the bag is used in a windproof tent"…often advertising will depict bags in a tent and on a pad…Some manufacturers discuss the role of pads ( more later on this)….BUT , clearly the bottom insulation plays a significant role, often undiscussed, ignored and unresolved to discomfort of the inexperienced.
The bottom insulation issue is something that has gotten a tremendous amount of discussion, experimentation and field reporting in the last 3-4 years by the hammock using community… Their problem is as obvious as, " bridge freezes before road"…Many have solved this issue… and now, there is an ever growing number of three and four season hammock users happily enjoying their new comfort.
What this community highlights, for all, is the manner that bags ( down or synthetic) compress under our body weight to virtually uselessness…This is a readily observable phenomina in a hammock….An observer of a body in a bag in a hammock can run a hand under the weighted hammock and confirm that the bag will often be less than 1/16 inch thick…exposed to the cold air this equals "Bridge Freeze"… The issue is exaccerbated in that the hammock sides curve up to compress sides as well.
The hammock community has several solution to this problem….Closed cell foam does not compress and are found in many varieties, Z rest, Ridgecrest, Eversote, blue foam, etc…When used these must be wider to provide for side insulation as well…hence there are wider pads, added wings, SPE , and separate stuff pads, to be used as needed… on occasions clothing articles such as jacket etc are used for these additional insulation requirements. Wider Down filled air mattresses (DAM) and thermorests supplemented with wing pads are also effectively used. Alternatively, there are solutions that insulate the under side of hammocks, Garlington Taco and other home made wind socks, Hennessy Super Shelter,Speer Pea Pod, JRB Weathershield and JRB Under Quilts. The solutions vary but none expect to solve this with merely a thicker bag.
Ray Jardine in his book, " Beyond Backpacking" championed the idea of quilts… His theories , all aimed at reducing weight, pointed out that the bottom areas of traditional bag were compressed and that the pad was the true bottom insulation…Quilts could, therefore, reduce 25-33 percent of weight of a bag and still provide adequate coverage…His quilts were at one time produced by Go-Lite… Now quilts are available as kits or finished products by Ray Way, Thru-Hiker, Nanatak and Jacks "R" Better, and possibly some others…. Big Agnes makes bags that integrate a pad as the bottom insulation in a bottom sleeve that is otherwise uninsulated…they also make pads of different natures for different temperature ratings…Self inflating Thermorests also come in a variety of thickness and differing internal foams…All of this highlights the issue of bottom insulation as more than simply getting a thicker bag.
The sixth edition, 1959, Boy Scout Handbook, page 265 ( I know you guys all have this one) says, " As far as bedding is concerned, remember the old camp rule: Have as much under you as over you. In that way you are not only warm against the cold night air, but also against the coolness of the ground"… It goes on to discuss how to fold blanket to provide the bottom protection.
In the air or on the ground…days of old or present day… the issue remains… the bottom insulation is as important as the top …think about what and how you chose to do that and how you may chose to adjust by the seasons…
Enjoy your hike and sleep warm…. Food and "food for thought" will keep us warm.
Pan
Last edited by peter_pan; 09-03-2005 at 12:35.
ounces to grams
WWW.JACKSRBETTER.COM home of the Nest and No Sniveler underquilts and Bear Mtn Bridge Hammock
i'm new here and just thought i would post my big four weight as well.
Marmot Hydrogen regular.....21 oz
Granite Gear Virga................19 oz
Oware tarp, Vargo titanium stakes, and UL spectra cord......14 oz
Ridge-Rest short (cut to fit my body)...................7 oz
total- 61 oz=........3 lbs 14 oz
p@uL
Nice set up. Mine is going to be about twice that when I get done buying the parts.
For those of you who really need better padding, take a look at the Bozeman Mountain Works TorsoLite inflatable, which works pretty well at 10.4 ounces. With a pillow made out of clothes and fleece top, and with my Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone padded frame under my feet, it was a pretty comfy setup.
GA←↕→ME: 1973 to 2014
i have a thermarest prolite 3 short to take with me also but i only really use it when i go on shelter trips...to me the ridge rest is sufficient enough for sleeping on the ground. it weighs in at 13 ounces.
p@uL
Golite Breeze 14 oz
WM Highlite 16 oz
Pacific Outdoors DAM 23 oz
Lunar Solo w-ti stakes 24 oz
total is just under 5 lbs.
Golite Day - 13 oz.
W.M. Highlite - 18 oz.
Thermarest Prolite 3 - 13 oz.
Lunar Solo with Ti. stakes - 28 oz.
Total - 72 oz. (4 lbs. 8 oz.)
Cherokee
whats the weight of your big four
Hello to all, I have been hiking for over 22 years and have like yourselves been steadely lowering my pack weight to the U/L level. I have done it with the intent of being comfortable and SAFE. My most resent changes have been all of the big four. I previously carried the Stephensons 2-man tent, their DAM air mattress, the Kelty "White" Cloud pack(Spectra cloth), and the Feathered Friends "Hummingbird" 20 deg. bag w/ PTFE shell. All that very expensive gear did nothing but weigh me down. I have changed to the Hennessey hammocks assymetrical racer 1lb.4ozs., Marmot "Atom" 40 deg bag 1 lb. 2 ozs.., Blue closed cell foam 1/2"x 22"x 60" used in combonation with a 4 section piece of the Z-rest under my mid section 12.5 ozs.(Which also works in conjunction with my backpck as a frame support), and my pack is the G-5 modified to 6 ozs. the total is 3 lbs. 8.5ozs. I also use the Western Mountaineering Flight jacket to supplement my sleeping bags lack of insulation if I get a chill in the night(I`m a cold sleeper), it also is a great asset around the camp site. I really appreciate this web-site and have enjoyed your threads, keep`em coming,Happy hiking to all!
That was posted in March of 2004. Things have changed since I wrote it.
Tent = 2003 Squall Tarptent...........28oz(Got a great deal from a fellow Whiteblazer)
Pack = ULA P-2 .......................... 51oz. (I have the top lid)
Bag = Campmor 20* down .............32oz
Pad = inflatable thermorest............16oz (ok, old bones)
total............................................. ....127oz or roughly 8lbs
My summer weight with REI's travel sack brings it down to 7lbs.
I think I've done pretty good with my selections. Don't plan on changing a thing for quite awhile, except perhaps the bag. Hopefully I'll do my thru in 2008 and this will be what I start out with. and NO NEO, I don't want a hammock.........
Last edited by Lilred; 12-29-2005 at 14:53.
"It was on the first of May, in the year 1769, that I resigned my domestic happiness for a time, and left my family and peaceable habitation on the Yadkin River, in North Carolina, to wander through the wilderness of America." - Daniel Boone
Pack: Go-Lite Breeze, 16 oz. listed wgt.
Shelter: Intergal Designs Sil-Shelter, 16 oz. listed wgt. plus another 8 oz. I guess in stakes, ground sheet, and trip-tease line. approx total 24 oz.
Bags: Winter Bag, FF Lark 10 degree ( I am a COLD sleeper ), 38 oz. listed wgt.
Summer Bag WM Highlite 40 degree, 16 oz. listed wgt.
Pad:Winter, Therm-a-Rest RidgeRest, Short, 9 oz. lw. &
Therm-a-Rest Ultralite, Short, 13 oz. lw.
Summer pad I usually go with the RidgeRest. 9 oz.
Winter Big 4: 100 oz. or 6 lbs 4 oz.
Summer Big 4: 65 oz. or 4 lbs 1 oz.
Winter pack weight is around 20 lbs total now with 5 days food. Summer is approx. 17 lbs. This is a BIG improvement from the 55 lb pack I had in '97.
I know one can always go lighter I guess, but I feel good with this pack and my eguipment. Getting light has put the joy back into hiking for me. Now I need to lose this "holiday fat "
Some Days Your The Bug , Some Days Your The Windshield
Just curious if you tarp users are including the weight of your trekking poles (if you use them) in your shelter totals? Some can weight 1lb. for a pair.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
