I might not hike with a map

[Pedaling Fool]

People don't get car insurance because it's illegal to drive without, they get it in case they get in an accident. The fact that it's illegal to drive w/o insurance may factor in, but if they KNEW they would not get in an accident they wouldn't purchase it -- it has nothing to do with obeying the law, like good citizens. Driving over the speed limit is against the law - how many of you always drive the speed limit.

[trouthunter]

Getting car insurance was a wise choice before the many less intelligent types who wouldn't forced the legislature in each state to make it the law.
The basic premise of the analogy was that smart people get car insurance because it's the wise choice. The fact that some people have to be forced to do the right thing just proves that many people left to their own designs will not make the wise choice.

Why is that so hard to understand?

[chomp]

I'm not sure what the rules and laws are in other parts of the country, but not carrying maps in NH could cost you thousands of dollars.

There is a law in NH - if you need to be rescued and you are unprepared, you will be charged for the cost of the rescue. This is typically a couple of thousand dollars, more if you need a helicopter.

One of the things that is considered essential by NH Fish & Game (who are in charge of all rescues) for all hikers is a map and a compass and the ability to use them. So be aware that if you break and ankle or get caught in a storm, lost in the fog, get lost, etc... If you require a rescue and you do not have a map and a compass on you, you will be charged for the rescue.

So, in NH at least, the cost of a map and compass can be considered the cost of insurance should you find yourself needing assistance.

[trouthunter]

I'm not sure what the rules and laws are in other parts of the country, but not carrying maps in NH could cost you thousands of dollars.

There is a law in NH - if you need to be rescued and you are unprepared, you will be charged for the cost of the rescue. This is typically a couple of thousand dollars, more if you need a helicopter.

One of the things that is considered essential by NH Fish & Game (who are in charge of all rescues) for all hikers is a map and a compass and the ability to use them. So be aware that if you break and ankle or get caught in a storm, lost in the fog, get lost, etc... If you require a rescue and you do not have a map and a compass on you, you will be charged for the rescue.

So, in NH at least, the cost of a map and compass can be considered the cost of insurance should you find yourself needing assistance.

It's good to see that someone in NH has their head screwed on straight, that should be the law in every state!
Way to go NH.

[Pedaling Fool]

Actually the basic premise of the analogy is:

You get insurance (whether car, home…) to protect yourself in the event of the unexpected. Many would say you should carry a map for the same reason; I’m included in that group.

I don’t carry maps to find my way on the AT; I carry maps for the unexpected. There are many examples people have shared on this website to justify carrying a map, even on the AT.

If one does not want to carry a map and many have without a problem, then go ahead, but don’t tell others there’s no risk. It’s all about your willingness to accept certain risks. We all have different thresholds for different activities.

I don’t hike without a map, but I don’t have a problem with fording the Kennebec, but I’m not going to tell someone there’s no risk.

[emerald]

Intelligent discussion.

[Mags]

Mapless folk can simply make a copy on the back of their hand. Oh wait, that won't work - ink is heavy.

True story.

A few years ago, a friend of mine lead a canyoneering trip in Utah. Utah is truly Wilderness in many places. I mean, middle-of-nowhere kind of Wilderness.

The canyoneers were in rope teams of 4 or 5 people. The idea was that each team would be self contained. You know..have a map, compass, possibly a GPS (useful above canyons). Well, one team did not. The team forgot/neglected to bring maps. Their solution? THEY PHOTOGRAPHED THE MAPS ON A DIGITAL CAMERA FROM ANOTHER TEAM! They were also late getting out of camp and raced to catch up to the two other teams. So they did not bother to turn around and go back to camp. (I'm a bastard, I would told them to get their kiesters back..)


This worked about as well as you would expect. Meaning, it didn't.

They zigged where they should have zagged. Became lots. At 8pm or so, my friends had to go looking for them (3 three hours after everyone but the, ahem, "dream team" had been back in camp). At 2am, everyone was finally back in camp! For want of map....

I am not going to get embroiled in this perpetual debate again. I just think what Tin Man said as a joke was a little too close to reality in one case.

Obviously, Utah is a bit more wild than the AT. Take from this story what you will.....

[oldfivetango]

After doing a speed scan of all TWELVE pages of this here map thread
I admit that nowhere in there did I see a reference to the MapDana.

I am wondering if they are considered to be worth anything to the
"hikes with a map" crowd.

Incidentally,I would not consider not having at least some sort of
map for orientation purposes.My mapdana looks pretty reliable to me....

....just wondering what you pros think of them.
Oldfivetango

[Pedaling Fool]

I've seen those mapdanas, I think it's just a marketing tool for all the ultras. They cannot depict the actual information for navigation that a map does -- I'm not talking about nice-to-know-stuff, like profiles... I can't remember, but I think there's 5 or 6 for the entire trail (someone correct me...).

[Jack Tarlin]

I have friends who've served in the Coast Guard who've rescued boaters whose navigation maps were these ridiculous plasticized things that exactly resembled restaurant placemats.

Considering a Mapdanna as a suitable replacement for a real Trail map is the hiking version of the boating foolishness.

Get a real map. Learn how to use it. Never hike without it.

Cuz remember, if you ever find yourdelf in a real jam, the Coast Guard or the cavalry or whatever might not find you in time.

[halibut15]

Four words: hike your own hike. People have done it with and without maps and there are risks (different ones) involved with both. End of discussion.

[TD55]

Four words: hike your own hike. People have done it with and without maps and there are risks (different ones) involved with both. End of discussion.

What is the risk of hiking with a map?

[weary]

What is the risk of hiking with a map?

You beat me too it. Plus your answer was a nicely precise question, i.e. the best kind.

[The Old Fhart]

TD55-"What is the risk of hiking with a map?"

You bring up a very good point that the 'ignorance is bliss' anti-map people completely miss. There is the 'risk' that by carrying a map you might actually know where you're going, learn something about your surroundings, and have a useful tool in case of an emergency.

[ed bell]

Four words: hike your own hike. People have done it with and without maps and there are risks (different ones) involved with both. End of discussion.

Hike your own hike is all well and good, but you can't pull that card in a thread like this. Read the OP. Answer the question with HYOH and you would sound like a jerk. What I have posted before is that I tend to think that folks who ask about the need for maps probably are not comfortable with their own map skills. That may not always be the case but I have a good handle on navigation and maps and would never consider asking such a question. If I were to consider leaving a map behind, I sure wouldn't ask someone to tell me that it was going to be OK. Those who respond by saying "you don't need a map on the AT" are giving incomplete advice. When that happens folks chime in about the importance of learning navigation/ map reading skills and to carry maps for the area one plans to hike because that is the correct advice to give.

[chomp]

Four words: hike your own hike. People have done it with and without maps and there are risks (different ones) involved with both. End of discussion.

"Can you hike without a map?" is an entirely different question that "Should you hike without a map?"

If you want to hike without a map, you should ask yourself a couple of other questions. Do you drive without a seatbelt? Do you filter and treat your water? Do you wear a helmet when riding a bike? Are you carrying a cell phone 'just in case'?

[trouthunter]

Hike your own hike is all well and good, but you can't pull that card in a thread like this. Read the OP. Answer the question with HYOH and you would sound like a jerk. What I have posted before is that I tend to think that folks who ask about the need for maps probably are not comfortable with their own map skills. That may not always be the case but I have a good handle on navigation and maps and would never consider asking such a question. If I were to consider leaving a map behind, I sure wouldn't ask someone to tell me that it was going to be OK. Those who respond by saying "you don't need a map on the AT" are giving incomplete advice. When that happens folks chime in about the importance of learning navigation/ map reading skills and to carry maps for the area one plans to hike because that is the correct advice to give.

"Hike your own hike" is a nice catch phrase that really has no merit in a discussion about trail safety. There are safer and less safe ways of doing things.
Going into the backcountry with out a map or compass and the skills to use them is the less safe way.
I don't see how anyone could make a credible argument to the contrary.
If you wish to hike without a map go ahead, just be aware you are at a greater risk, I really don't care, one day you may learn the hard way.

[trouthunter]

In case I wasn't clear, I'm agreeing with you Ed Bell

[ed bell]

<snip>
I don't see how anyone could make a credible argument to the contrary.
If you wish to hike without a map go ahead, just be aware you are at a greater risk, I really don't care, one day you may learn the hard way.

The fact is that some folks wish to Promote and Advocate hiking the AT without maps, map skills and/or navigation skills. The AT, no matter how well blazed it is, should never be a reason to advocate hiking without a map and the skills to use it.

[woodsy]

More good reasons to carry maps, compass and appropriate gear no matter where or how long you plan to be out. It could mean the difference between life and death, not only for you but possibly a friend or a stranger.
I wouldn't be caught dead without map and compass , in fact, they are the first two items i check for when gearing up to go out.