I might not hike with a map

[fiddlehead]

Maps will be obsolete in a few years.

The newer GPS's tell you so much more than a map that has a few miles (or less) on either side of the trail, and too many people think that a map will keep them from getting lost.
I travelled with a guy who thought he knew how to use a compass but it got him in so much trouble because he insisted the red part was pointing south. A lot of good the map did him.

I've been in many situations where there is fog and a bunch of people sitting around arguing over where they are on the map. (I've been one of them too)

anyway, that's my 2 cents to this debate that's been on here as much as the Kennebec thread.

(I would still carry a compass though) and a state highway map is not a bad idea.

[trouthunter]

Maps will be obsolete in a few years.

The newer GPS's tell you so much more than a map that has a few miles (or less) on either side of the trail, and too many people think that a map will keep them from getting lost.
I travelled with a guy who thought he knew how to use a compass but it got him in so much trouble because he insisted the red part was pointing south. A lot of good the map did him.

I've been in many situations where there is fog and a bunch of people sitting around arguing over where they are on the map. (I've been one of them too)

anyway, that's my 2 cents to this debate that's been on here as much as the Kennebec thread.

(I would still carry a compass though) and a state highway map is not a bad idea.

You are correct, the newer GPSRs are impressive and the new mapping tech from places like Topo.com or Nat. Geo. Topo! plus the stuff from Magellan adds a whole new dimension to mapping abilities of GPSRs.
However I have never known of a map not getting a signal or it's batteries running down ect. GPSRs are only a compliment to topos and should be treated as such. Electronic devices are always subject to malfunction although I agree GPSRs are a valuable Nav. tool

As far as not knowing where you are on the map : You should keep up with your position on the map as you hike not just check when in doubt, that is one of the biggest mistakes people make especially on blazed trails. Then they whip out the GPSR to get their coords and that causes them to view the GPSR as superior to topos. While the GPSR has superior features, it is not more reliable than a paper topo. IMO
Although I love my G60x

[weary]

Maps will be obsolete in a few years. ......
I've been in many situations where there is fog and a bunch of people sitting around arguing over where they are on the map. (I've been one of them too).....

Reminds me of the time I was showing a guy from out of state the two-mile wide Kennebec River estuary near my home. Suddenly a coastal fog moved in and we could hardly see the bow of my boat.

The guy panicked. "Calm down," I said. "In Maine we can navigate with a bag of potatoes."

He looked skeptical. But I assured him we would be okay. "Here," I said. Throw these potatoes one at a time just as hard as you can. When one doesn't land in the water, turn quickly."

Weary

[emerald]

(I would still carry a compass though) and a state highway map is not a bad idea.

Does fiddlehead's recommendation meet the New Hampshire Fish and Game standard of preparedness mentioned earlier? Could someone please link this requirement and tell us how its language is interpreted by officials responsible for deciding who pays?

[The Old Fhart]

Shades of Gray-"Could someone please link this requirement and tell us how its language is interpreted by officials responsible for deciding who pays?"

This may be the answer but it isn't spelled out what is required, only that Fish and Game can determine whether a rescued party acted negligently or not.

AN ACT relative to search and rescue response expenses of the fish and game department and relative to appropriating additional funding for certain fish and game programs.

Be it Enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in General Court convened:

167:1 Fish and Game Department; Powers; Search and Rescue. Amend RSA 206:26, XII to read as follows:

XII. To conduct search and rescue operations in woodlands and inland waters and to provide security at the sites thereof, and to enforce recovery of expenses under RSA 206:26-bb;

167:2 New Section; Search and Rescue Response Expenses; Recovery. Amend RSA 206 by inserting after section 26-b the following new section:

206:26-bb Search and Rescue Response Expenses; Recovery.

I. Notwithstanding RSA 153-A:24, any person determined by the department to have acted negligently in requiring a search and rescue response by the department shall be liable to the department for the reasonable cost of the department’s expenses for such search and rescue response. The executive director shall bill the responsible person for such costs. Payment shall be made to the department within 30 days after the receipt of the bill, or by some other date determined by the executive director. If any person shall fail or refuse to pay the costs by the required date, the department may pursue payment by legal action, or by settlement or compromise, and the responsible person shall be liable for interest from the date that the bill is due and for legal fees and costs incurred by the department in obtaining and enforcing judgment under this paragraph. All amounts recovered, less the costs of collection and any percentage due pursuant to RSA 7:15-a, IV(b), shall be paid into the fish and game search and rescue fund established in RSA 206:42.

[chomp]

The WMNF and NH Fish and Game created this site:

http://www.hikesafe.com/

To educate people about how to be safe in the woods.

Here is what they consider the 10 essentials:

http://www.hikesafe.com/index.php/pl..._10_essentials

I'm not saying that for sure if you don't have all of these items that you would be charged for a rescue. However, F&G is the agency that would conduct the rescue and ultimately determine if you were negligent in the eyes of the state.

[Bearpaw]

"Here," I said. Throw these potatoes one at a time just as hard as you can. When one doesn't land in the water, turn quickly."

Weary

Thanks Weary. That's one of the best stories I've heard in quite a while.

[garlic08]

Returning to the original question--I'm going to guess, based on the short bio and young age, that the OP has little experience. No way would I recommend to this person to head out without a set of maps.

I didn't use maps on the AT this year, not even mooching, and it was kind of fun not knowing where the trail was heading. I accepted the risk for myself and did fine, but I agree that risk is not for everyone.

In my last few seasons on the PCT and CDT, I was pretty anal about navigation and never once got lost. While I was proud of that feat, I was a little jealous of other hikers who had a more laissez faire attitude about it, got lost once in a while, and that seemed to just add to their adventure--meeting ranchers, wandering into mining camps, seeing small towns in isolated valleys, cool stuff. Going beyond the limits of your comfort zone is one of the great lessons of thru hiking.

[DapperD]

I believe the maps for the AT will be going on sale soon from the ATC for those that are interested.

[Tin Man]

Reminds me of the time I was showing a guy from out of state the two-mile wide Kennebec River estuary near my home. Suddenly a coastal fog moved in and we could hardly see the bow of my boat.

The guy panicked. "Calm down," I said. "In Maine we can navigate with a bag of potatoes."

He looked skeptical. But I assured him we would be okay. "Here," I said. Throw these potatoes one at a time just as hard as you can. When one doesn't land in the water, turn quickly."

Weary

Ha Ha Ha. Very good.

Reminds me of the time I was on the water and ran into a fog bank. This happened prior to all the GPS's and chart plotters of today. And we didn't have a radar dome. We were simply navigating using a nautical chart, compass, and a watch. When our timed course calculations showed we should make our turn, we confirmed it by the direction of a fog horn and checking our only other navigation device, a simple depth gauge that showed we were center channel. Next time, I will have to bring a bag of potatoes.

[Bob S]

Just have a sign every few miles with a map on it and an arrow pointing & saying “you are here.”

[emerald]

Just have a sign every few miles with a map on it and an arrow pointing & saying “you are here.”

I believe that idea was brought up, torn apart and rejected by others who posted before including myself. In short, the map will not be in hand when needed. This thread has become sufficiently long that some readers are forgetting what they've read.

[Bob S]

I believe that idea was brought up, torn apart and rejected by others who posted before including myself. In short, the map will not be in hand when needed. This thread has become sufficiently long that some readers are forgetting what they've read.

I made that post as a joke; I didn’t think it was a valid idea…


Maps & signs mounted all along the way would go a long way toward making it look a lot less like a wildness area.

[MARKO HANGMAN III]

As long as you just keep following the white blazes, you won't need a map. Save the money and the weight (you can always change your mind). A guide book is all you need. You're not going to die on the AT due to a lack of maps. Have fun!

[ki0eh]

Just have a sign every few miles with a map on it and an arrow pointing & saying “you are here.”

Reminds me of a mountain town in PA that used to have a rock with a star on it at the town line with the words "You Are Here". No name of town or any sort of map included on said rock.

[emerald]

Maps & signs mounted all along the way would go a long way toward making it look a lot less like a wildness area.

Glad to see you were paying attention to the earlier posts.

As long as you just keep following the white blazes, you won't need a map. Save the money and the weight (you can always change your mind). A guide book is all you need. You're not going to die on the AT due to a lack of maps. Have fun!

Okay, got it! When I reach The Maine Junction, I'll simply continue following the white blazes.

[Jack Tarlin]

There are better ways to save money than by not purchasing maps, and a map weighs around the same as a ziplock filled with Cheerios, so skipping them to save weight is also pretty silly.

The prudent hiker carries and uses their own maps.

And I've NEVER seen a hiker that wasn't carrying their own map turn down the opportunity to mooch a look at somebody else's.

So when they say they don't need maps, they're not being entirely honest.

They might not feel the "need" to carry their own, but they sure enjoy taking every available opportunity to look at someone else's.

This isn't being thrifty. It's being cheap and tacky.

[JAK]

Unlike Jack I take pride in being cheap, but I would always have my own map.

[JimEcricket]

I did over a 1000 miles on the AT last year. I started with maps and the "Appalachian Trail Thru-Hikers Companion''. I found that I used the Companion daily. It tells you trail distances, water, shelter, resupply towns, etc.. I never needed to consult the maps to find my way from Springer, GA to PA. There is one thing on the maps that I used quite a bit but I heard a rumor they may include it in the newer Companion, that is the profile. It gives you a visual of the elevation gain. I ended up cutting the profiles off the maps and sending them home. I hope this helps.

P.S. There is no chance that you will get lost on the AT on the first half, there are lots of people out there. You might not see too many during the day because you are all moving but when you stop at night you will have plenty of company.

JimEcricket

[emerald]

Can't help but wonder how much of this thread was read by the previous poster. It's not a question of whether one needs maps and only once one has finished would one know. There are plenty of other reasons to justify carrying maps besides needing them.

There is not no chance of people getting lost on the first 1/2 of the AT since we read here of those who do several times a year. My local newspaper reports someone getting lost on the AT in the county where I reside (2% of the AT) and making a 911 call requiring a response regularly, but then we're north of the AT's midpoint.