Winter equipment list

[fehchet]

I’m still in the planning stages for a 01/01/2009 departure from Springer in spite of the fire that destroyed all my stuff and ended my job at the same time. It is to be a 3 month NOBO affair because I hope to get off trail at the end of March and return to the new business now being built from the ashes.
So below is an equipment list I would love to be critiqued by my White Blaze friends.
My clothing list will be basically what I have grown accustomed to using over the years during winter hikes in northern Canada and the New England states but slightly toned down. If any one is interested, I can put a clothing list together.

Osprey Aether 70 backpack
Leki Super Makalu hiking poles
Merrell Chameleon Gortex boots
MSR Hubba Hubba HP tent
0 degree down sleeping bag (still deciding on the make)
Maura Silks sleeping bag liner or manufacture’s vapor barrier
Snow Peak Mountain sleeping pad
Radio Shack AM/FM stereo headset
Snow Peak Giga Power stove
Fuel for stove
Snow Peak titanium Mini Solo Cook Set
Lexan spoon and knife
Leatherman single blade knife
Scotch Brite cleaning pad
Pot cozy
Plastic one cup measurer
Outdoor Research Hydroseal dry sack food bag
2 Campmor sil-nylon clothes bags
Outdoor Research organizer for odds and ends – band aids, cell, pills, money, paper, etc.
30’ clothes line
2 Bic mini lighters
2 Sigg water bottles – 1.5 & 1 liter
ATC blaze orange pack cover

[Blissful]

Sorry to hear about your trouble. Hope it works out.

0 degree is definitely the way to go. Clothes are important, would include a balaclava in your list if you don't already have one. And maybe outer gloves as well as liners.
Don't need two knives, plastic measure
Just use ziploc bags to organize, IMO - one for wallet, one for first aid and a snack size for pills.

[Wags]

may want to swap out 1 of your siggs for a nalgene. that way you can have a hot water bottle at night in your sleeping bag if you so desire. also that aluminum may freeze to your lips

[88BlueGT]

Why not swap out the two sigg bottles for a 1L nalgene and a platy water bottle/bag. Not sure exactally what you are exactally your measuring cup for but if its just for measuring water than there are a few alternatives. You can fill your pot with one cup and mark the tube of an empty bic pen with a market or with tape. Flip the tube over and do the same for 2 cups or whatever you want to do. Just an idea, a little easier and you could shed a little weight.

[88BlueGT]

and make sure you bring more than just a pack cover for rain gear

[bigcranky]

Stove: you've used this stove in the winter, right? I have had issues with all my top-mount canister stoves in cold weather. The right fuel helps -- something with a high isobutane component.

Water: I like to bring a water bag to collect water from the spring or creek, and bring it back to the shelter or tent for treatment and use. I use a 6-liter Platypus bag. This saves multiple trips to the water source, which can be very far down hill from camp.

A 0-F rated sleeping bag is good. You likely won't see temps dip much below zero at night, but you'll have plenty of nights in the low teens.

The goretex shoes are good -- I like to wear tall goretex gaiters with those, to keep the snow and muck out of my shoes. Note that I often wear shorts even in January in the South, as the highs can be pushing 50 on some days. If it's below freezing but sunny I'll wear light long john bottoms under the shorts.

I hesitate to tell someone from the Frozen North how to stay warm, but I'd bring some additional way of starting a fire -- those mini bics have failed me in the past. This works well, and you can use the sparker to light your stove.

Finally, I would line my pack with a thick garbage bag or pack liner, in addition to the pack cover, and I would put my dry clothes in ziploc bags inside the stuff sacks. You might expect that any precipitation would fall as snow -- thus not being much of a problem -- but it's very common to get rain, freezing rain, or what we like to call "wintry mix" here in the South. Nothing worse than wet clothes and sleeping bag in the winter.

Have fun. Great time to hike.

[workboot]

Just want to second bigcranky's suggestion on a different/backup fire starting system. It can be as simple as a couple film containers , one filled with dryer lint , the other filled with cotton balls soaked in vaseline and some matches or a magnesium /flint fire starter bar. Something as simple as a fire could mean the difference in hypothermia/death.

[John B]

I don't have any advice but I do have two requests -- I'd like to see your skin-out clothing list (I'm always uncertain what clothes and how much to carry in cold temps) and I'm very curious what you think about the new Hubba.

[fehchet]

Yes, I carry birch bark strips in a zip for fire starter. But I don't light fires very often. And I do line my pack with a white trash bag liner. Most everything goes in Ziploc bags including clothes of course.
I'll put a skin out clothes list together this evening. Got a full day at the moment.
I forgot to mention a 3 liter sack I carry for in camp water. The 6 liter one sounds good though. Also forgot to mention a Black Diamond head lamp in the list.
Thanks for the time and input.

[fehchet]

I don't have any advice but I do have two requests -- I'd like to see your skin-out clothing list (I'm always uncertain what clothes and how much to carry in cold temps) and I'm very curious what you think about the new Hubba.

Clothes List

2 pair Smartwool crew hiking socks
2 pair DeFeet mini crew socks (liners – my system)
1 pair wool socks for sleeping
1 Ibex wool leggings for sleeping
1 Maura silk T-shirt for sleeping
1 Ibex wool boxers for under shorts or skirt
1 Icebreaker wool leggings for in camp and start of day
1 Smartwool wool long sleeve shirt
1 Wintersilks short sleeve silk canvas button front shirt -- optional
1 fleece hoody -- optional
1 pair Maura silk gloves
1 pair Campmor fleece gloves
1 Ibex wool watch cap that covers ears
1 Maura silk baklava
1 Icebreaker wool skirt or Ibex wool skirt – optional
1 pair convertible REI nylon pants – DWR finish
1 LL Bean rain coat with hood and visor
1 AT ball cap
1 Patagonia down vest

The Hubba Hubba HP sets up easily. I have yet to spend a night in it but it feels like a good space to live in for winter hiking. Everything I have on my lists is brand new. After the fire I had a pair of shorts on and a T-shirt and a pair of Crocks. That is all that survived.

Life is an adventure and every day is a new day and a chance to begin again.

[hootyhoo]

I think you would better off with a white gas, or - I use a Trangia Mini year round. If you made or bought a bush buddy and carried a Trangia mini 28 I think you would do much better on fuel in winter conditions.

[bigcranky]

Clothing: I would add rain pants and some sort of waterproof overmitts. These are good. As I mentioned above, you'll run into a lot of very cold wet weather, with precip falling as rain or freezing rain, not snow. Fleece gloves will get soaked and your hands will freeze. (Ask me how I know this <grin>.)

The combo of fleece hoody and down vest over a light wool top might be adequate for winter temps for someone from Maine. I would be cold in that, but your mileage may vary. I carry a big puffy down jacket in the winter, but my North Carolina blood is thinner than yours.

[fiddlehead]

Seems a little heavy to me with all that wool.
MOst likely you are going to be fine when you are walking. Put on the down when you take a break, and be in your sleeping bag in camp.

Your biggest problem will be when you are in camp. Long nights that time of year.
I would think about Big Cranky's suggestion of the down coat for camp to wear while you are in camp.
Many days will be great temps and you will curse all that weight. But there will be times when it gets cold and you will need them.
Just remember you can always stop and set up your camp and get in your sleeping bag.
What's it all weigh? THAT's what would concern me. And WHAT is an LL bean rain gear? Sounds heavy.

One nalgene or strong plastic for the hot water bottle in the bag with you would be ideal and the other a cheap, lightweight pepsi bottle or gatoraid. ( I know many recommend the gatoriad cause of the wide mouth, but i find that the pepsi bottle with the smaller opening is easier to get water in from a small trickle)

Anyway, my 2 cents.

[fehchet]

Let's see? I've used a canister stove in winter since the 60's. Trick is to keep the fuel warm. (i.e. keep in sleeping bag at night, kinetic energy by rubbing the can vigorously, stuff it in a sock and put in a pocket a couple of hours from making camp at the end of the day) I don't use any stove systems with liquid fuel that I have to mess with because I am sight impaired and would set myself ablaze before too long. Also the cup measure weighs less than an ounce and is necessary for me because I wouldn't be able to see any mark on the outside of a pot let alone match the water level inside to the outside mark.

The waterproof overmitts look interesting but my hands sweat. I've actually decided to go back to my old system of a silk liner glove, wool outer glove, and a back up pair of wool mitts with polypropylene interior. The mitts would be brought to me if needed and I of course have a pair of wool socks to put on my hands too.

I'm still considering the rain jacket. I saw a nice one LL Bean sells: the Weather Challenger 3 in 1. It has a removable fleece liner so I would not bring the fleece hoody. Not sure of the weight and will call them on that.

Sigg bottles handle hot water just fine. I don't like keeping water in plastic bottles of any kind. It is just a personal preference.

Yes, short days and long nights at the beginning of my proposed adventure. I plan to mute that a bit by getting up early and heading out in the dark (weather permitting). I have no problem hunkering down for a day if necessary or high tailing it to town. At the end of the day there are several options like eating at a shelter or nice spot and then continuing on for a bit. I have hiked the lower AT several times and have a good idea of what will be up ahead as I journey along. The radio can help with any boredom too. Then there are other hikers out and about.

I'm looking at a base weight of 20 pounds before food and water. If I can get my pack weight to be 30 pounds with five days of food and water for the travel part of the day then I'm cool with that. It is always a tweak when one plans to hike and survive for days on end. I've listed what I believe will be comfortable for winter on the southern AT. If I have to add or subtract, then the first post office, or being met at a trail head will do the trick.

Thanks for the suggestions and concerns. All is helpful. thatguy.

[John B]

Thanks for the clothing list, Fehchet.

I have zero experience distance hiking in winter mths, but that said, I'm curious about the choice of wool rather than synthetics. It seems that wool would be much more difficult to launder and dry, no? I've a tendency on zero days to dump everything in a washer, wash in hot water, then dump everything in a hot dryer just to get it over with as soon as possible.

I carried UnderArmour gloves, which are very thin and without any lining, and I found them to be all but worthless. So I'm wondering about the need for silk gloves -- will they be used as a base layer for other gloves? If so, I'd think that a bit thicker fleece glove or gloves with a water/wind resistent cover might work better.

I never cared for ball caps because they don't seem to serve much of a use for me, so I'd ditch that and just stick with the wool cap.

With just a few ounces difference, I think that I'd get a pullover jacket rather than a vest. For example, a Patagonia down vest is 15.2 ounces, the Patagonia Micropuff jacket is 19.4 ounces.

I guess if I were thinking of cutting items, I would forego the leggings that you have just for sleeping and instead just use the wool leggings that you have listed for starting out the day.

Let us know your final pack weight.

Hope you have a great hike. If you'll be doing a trail journals, I'll be following along with your hike.