How did native americans

[sasquatch2014]

There was a National Geographic Article about a year or so ago on Jamestown and in this one of the things that they pointed out was how much of a difference the Earth Worm has made to the forests. The article stated that pre European arrival the debris on the forest floor was so deep that it blew into drifts at time several feet deep. The arrival of the earth worms often in root balls of plants brought by settlers and other times as ballast for the ships has changed this depth and changed the growth of undergrowth especially. It was interesting to think that something as simple as a worm could have such an impact. It is possible years later that the Native Americans learned to use the worms to their benefit and possibly harnessed them to move blow downs.

[Tipi Walter]

I have often thought that the label "native" American as applied to the American Indian was a misnomer because they really aren't-just the first group to migrate to this hemisphere.

Now, the camel and the horse, those are, in fact, "native" American!

If being here for 20,000 years doesn't constitute "native", what does? And anyway, according to the latest research we all started as hominids in Africa and spread across the globe from there. So, in your definition, none of us are native except for those few around that special spot in Africa.

[mtnkngxt]

Actually they are not. The horse was brought to the Americas by the Spanish. About 15000 years BP (Before Present) nomadic hunters from Asia crossed across the land bridge of Beringia what is now the Bering Straight and formed small hunting groups that traveled into the Americas. When the last Ice Age ended and these people became trapped in America around 10,000 BP. They began to settle in the north and migrate south. As can be seen in evidence found in the Rock Fish Caves in Alaska. It is believed that some from Asia may have come over in boats around then and they would have settled the southern americas. Over the years they evolved into what is now considered native americans. It is uncertain the exact dates "white men" came over first, but it is assumed they first colonized in the Americas around the time of the Vikings. So in fact until further proven the direct descendants of these nomadic hunters that became trapped after the end of the last Ice Age would be the true native americans. Administration of Justice and History Major here.

[sasquatch2014]

Actually they are not. The horse was brought to the Americas by the Spanish. About 15000 years BP (Before Present) nomadic hunters from Asia crossed across the land bridge of Beringia what is now the Bering Straight and formed small hunting groups that traveled into the Americas. When the last Ice Age ended and these people became trapped in America around 10,000 BP. They began to settle in the north and migrate south. As can be seen in evidence found in the Rock Fish Caves in Alaska. It is believed that some from Asia may have come over in boats around then and they would have settled the southern americas. Over the years they evolved into what is now considered native americans. It is uncertain the exact dates "white men" came over first, but it is assumed they first colonized in the Americas around the time of the Vikings. So in fact until further proven the direct descendants of these nomadic hunters that became trapped after the end of the last Ice Age would be the true native americans. Administration of Justice and History Major here.

I still don't understand where the UFO's fit into all of this? Or were they like Contract employees and only here for big building projects and lines in the deserts and stuff?

[gaga]

Having done some trail maintenance -and wishing at times for a chainsaw and a brush cutter - I wonder how did the native americans clear blow downs from their roads and trails?

dude, where you think Native American Totem Poles come from? when they found a nice blow down... chop! chop! chop! and definitely not the women, they were doing the paint job on them (on the totems)

[Pedaling Fool]

Blowdowns were just as common before we arrived as they are today. Four major reasons I see as causing blowdowns:

1. Steep terrain
2. Rocky soil
3. Heavy rains
4. Wind

Look around when you are hiking, the trail may or may not be steep, but the surrounding terrain is, and it's rocky. Look at the trees, they're on a steep slope, plus their root system is exposed because of the rocks underneath. This is common through out the length of the AT, not all sections, but in a significant portion. For reasons 1 & 2, trees cannot obtain a firm foundation in this environment, so when the rain and wind comes it knocks them down, much quicker than it would if the trees were on level, non-rocky ground.

That is why trees are not big along the AT corridor, not because of deforestation.

[mtnkngxt]

UFOs were too busy fighting the Russians man.

[Pedaling Fool]

I would imagine that in a society supported by myriad path networks, they probably didn't follow one single path as much as we did, making a blowdown much less of an issue...

Someone must have used them or else nature would have reclaimed their trails. If people don't hike on trails then it would require much more trail maintenance to maintain the trail. In a way hikers do trail maintenance.

[Gray Blazer]

not the women, they were doing the paint job on them (on the totems)

Talk about blowdowns!!

[Gray Blazer]

If being here for 20,000 years doesn't constitute "native", what does? And anyway, according to the latest research we all started as hominids in Africa and spread across the globe from there. So, in your definition, none of us are native except for those few around that special spot in Africa.

Dude, you've been here 20,000 years?!? Have you ever met the Highlander? I'm a native, but, I've only been here 54 years.

I can't believe he said the horse was more native than you.

[highway]

If being here for 20,000 years doesn't constitute "native", what does? And anyway, according to the latest research we all started as hominids in Africa and spread across the globe from there. So, in your definition, none of us are native except for those few around that special spot in Africa.

yep, you are right. So far it would appear all of us are "native" Africans, at least that is where our mitochondrial DNA has been traced to, indicating that, in deed, there may very well have been an 'Eve'..

The horse originated in the Americas, migrated westward across the land bridge, expanded in Asia, died out in the Americas, and were returned here by the Spaniards.

[minnesotasmith]

I wouldn't have thought agricultural people would have traveled all that much before we showed up and scattered them, and brought horses.

1) There were horses native to the Americas, but the American aborigines (term I consider more accurate than "Native American", a title I claim) hunted them into extinction long before.

2) Hunter-gatherers do have to move around a fair amount as they hunt out the game and pull up nearly all the edible roots, etc. , rather more than do primarily agricultural societies. The latter are the ones where people commonly lived out their entire lives in a 10x10 mile area.

3) I think the AAs mainly used fire and/or girdling (removing tree bark in a ring all the way around a tree so as to kill it) when they wanted to clear land. Their philosophy was apparently that patience is easier than effort, especially with the low level of technology their societies supported (no use of the wheel, metal smelting, gunpowder, etc).

[Tha Wookie]

Someone must have used them or else nature would have reclaimed their trails. If people don't hike on trails then it would require much more trail maintenance to maintain the trail. In a way hikers do trail maintenance.

Animals use trails too -quite a lot actually. Two-leggeds and four-leggeds alike tend to follow the path of least resistance.

[smokymtnsteve]

Animals use trails too -quite a lot actually. Two-leggeds and four-leggeds alike tend to follow the path of least resistance.

esp. those darn moose in the winter..

[trouthunter]

Native Americans did not "clear" blowdowns. It was considered part of the way things were.You did not alter the path that nature chose.

[Tha Wookie]

Native Americans did not "clear" blowdowns. It was considered part of the way things were.You did not alter the path that nature chose.

As someone else already said, read the book 1491. It's very interesting.

[Pedaling Fool]

Do not alter the path nature chose?

A new religion evolving.

[trouthunter]

I have read 1491. There is a lot of speculation in the book, as is the case with most books of that nature. Indians were/are of the mindset that you do not alter nature just to satisfy your needs or whims. They were not wasteful, using their resources wisely and trying to live in harmony with nature. You know, go with the flow.
I am part Cherokee, I have spent a good bit of time in Cherokee country doing trail maintenance, establishing primitive campsites ect. I have dug Ginseng side by side with full Cherokee and I am familiar with their way of thinking.
You would not move a blow down just to clear the path for your own convenience. Lots of times blow downs actually serve the purpose of erosion control on the trail, depends on the terrain of course.
Not only did they conserve resources from nature, they also conserved their own time and energy as a necessity. They would not have carried a blow down all the way back to a tribal area to be used as a Totem Pole or a dug out. The native Indians were very ceremonial and that just wouldn't be the way they would do that.
Walk around or hop over! You don't have time to "clear" blow downs when the meat you are carrying HAS to get back Quickly, or you need to hurry to meet other natives waiting on you for the purpose of trading. They were a very busy people and did not have time to do trail maintenance the way we think of it today. They were used to the forest and didn't give it a second thought. They were not spoiled by sidewalks like people today!
I'm not saying they did not alter the landscape, they did, but not miles away from the tribal areas as it would be too time consuming, They spent many hours every day hunting, gathering, repairing, taking care of animals and farming. They also had to make all the tools and weapons they needed to survive.
They did not waste time moving some tree that happened to fall across the path 20 miles from home. How often do we stop to do that as we hike, trying to get somewhere before dark?

[Pedaling Fool]

I have read 1491...

Is this the actual title of that book (1491)? I'm kind of interested in reading it, who's the aurthor?

[Pedaling Fool]

http://www.amazon.com/1491-Revelatio.../dp/140004006X

Never mind, I found it.