Rain Gear and Wind Shirts

[m0rpheu5]

I am trying to figure out how to save weight in clothing. Is it safe to thru hike without a wind shirt, or rain jacket...what have you done and is it successful. Can I use a windshirt as rain jacket, rain jacket as windshirt? any advice would be great. And please include all four seasons in your explanations and advice

[1/4 moon]

It's defineatly doable in the summer to hike without either, just as long as you have enough dry clothing and are willing to take shelter should you get too chilled on a cool rainy summer day. I personally have never used a windshirt, a rainjacket can easily double as a windshirt. However when hiking in a rainjacket it does tend to get very clammy. As for the winter I ALWAYS hike with a rainjacket, no experience with a windjacket in the winter though

[Tagless]

The time of year would influence my decision. I carry a Patagonia Houdini Wind Jacket (4 ounces) whenever I hike. It is water resistant, but not water proof. I hiked for seven days in Virginia last week and used my wind jacket as various times every day.

I only carry a rain jacket (Montbell Peak Shell) only in cool/cold conditions. It doubles up as an extra layer during the evening in camp. As 1/4 Moon mentioned, most get very clammy fast in warmer conditions.

[Tipi Walter]

My goretex rain jacket might be the only piece of gear I carry that often never gets used, but when it does get used it's vitally important. Plus, the southeast where I live is experiencing a long-term, two year drought, and my backpacking trips have seen long stretches with not a single drop of rain.

It's possible to hike w/o a rain jacket but in that case a top midlayer must be worn for warmth(thermax/polypro/merino tops), and it will get saturated in the rain. So, the next morning the wet top must be put back on to start the hike and that's always fun. Not.

The protection a rain jacket offers in the three seasons other than summer is important, even though hiking in one produces moisture in its own right, the wetness though is warm. Important consideration. One of the worst hiking conditions is in rain at around 35 degrees, and here the rain jacket shows its importance. I usually hike in T-shirt and shorts, and with a rain jacket thrown over the T-shirt, I can stay warm enough in cold wet conditions.

[Zzzzdyd]

from 1/4 moon, Tagless, and Tipi Walter.

I would add that one can adjust your pacing and with rain gear that has some

venting and stay almost totally dry and most importantly warm.

Also I saw some cases of mild hypothermia serving as a medic in a warm

tropical climate some years back. And if I recall correctly at least one severe

case. Staying warm is most important. You can get hypothermia and die in

July ! Just getting wet either from water or sweat and a cool wind can be

enough to cause it.

What to leave in and what to leave out is a seemingly constant dilemma

for the UL and LW hiker.

I usually do my hiking on the AT in Feb and March and take both the Montrail

wind shirt for those cool/cold breezy breaking and setting up camp times, etc.

With the exception of my bad knee acting up back in Feb of 2006 while hiking

between Springer and Neals Gap I had a enjoyable hike in spite of a snow

storm the first night out. I stayed warm using the layering system that

included use of the rain jacket almost full time the last three days.

I learned the hard way not to trim ounces in my pack for pounds of worry in

my mind some years before this. I also got reminded that plans are made to

be changed. I usually plan on just three days from Springer to Neals, but

carry four days food just in case. I almost left the fourth day out that trip to

save that weight. Could have made it without it, but sure glad I had it.

If I HAD to, but I do not, I would leave the windshirt out. But one gets so

much for 4 ounces !!

On the shorties I do on the River to River over in Southern Illinois during the

summer I do usually leave the rain jacket home and just take the Montrail

windshirt since it is water resistant enough to let me get my shelter set up

before I get soaked if one of those summer storms comes along.

Go practice walking/hiking in the rain if you can and see what works for you.

I am lucky my grandkids love spraying me with a water hose as I check

shelters and rain gear. Offer a 11 year old $5 if they can get you wet under

your rain jacket and you will find out how good it is or isn't... lol

Best of luck on your hike.

[BookBurner]

I'd carry something that's waterproof, whether it be a jacket or a windshirt. Springtime rains are cold! You won't hike for long in an April shower without some some sort of barrier between you and the elements. Later in the season, the outer layer can serve as your laundramat smoking jacket while your other clothes wash.

[Tinker]

Carry rain gear always in cold weather.
In summer, a windshirt will usually suffice in temps down to around 50. Below that, add wind, and you'll be flirting with hypothermia. A guy around my age lost his life in the Presidentials (where I was last week) in August (20 or so years ago) because he lost his HAT on a windy, rainy day.

[Kerosene]

Having once been caught in a T-storm in southern Vermont in August, I can attest to just how cold that rain was. Fortunately I was wearing a poncho, and even then I was shivering by the time I got to a shelter a few hours later.

Any DWR-treated fabric will soak through after sustained rains like you see on the east coast. I'd be more inclined to go with a pair of windpants and a lightweight, well ventilated rain jacket or poncho of some type.

[bigcranky]

Thru-hike without a rain shell? No, sorry, I don't think that's a good idea. There are definitely times along the hike when you will be walking in the rain, and it'll be warm enough to just get wet, but there will be many other times that you'll want a waterproof outer layer.

I do like a light wind shirt, too. In cool conditions, a breathable wind shirt will provide a surprising amount of warmth and wind protection over a light base layer. I usually carry either a <3 oz single-layer wind shirt, or a Marmot Driclime jacket, though one of those supplex nylon fishing shirts works well, too. And it has useful pockets.

After playing around with various clothing systems, I still like the 4-layer method: a light synthetic or wool base layer, a light wind shirt, an insulation layer, and a waterproof breathable shell layer. It's easy to mix-and-match while hiking to meet the current weather. While the specific pieces will change with the seasons, the concept stays the same.

[Johnny Swank]

A combination of either a long-sleeve fishing shirt/Drimclime + silnyon rainjacket works for me for 3-season use. I'm rarely zipped all the way up, but I'd rather have the option of stewing in my own juices (warm but damp) than freezing my butt off. I've spent enough days hiking while wrapped up in my groundcloth!

[flemdawg1]

Used a Sierra Designs Microlight jacket last weekend and it worked pretty well.

[JAK]

I think rain gear and wind layers and even skin layers are alot simpler if you use a wool sweater as you main layer. In summer it only has to be a light loose $20 merino sweater.

For my rain layer I use a sylnylon poncho tarp. I just got a new one for $30 at LLBean Outlet. For my wind layer I use a 5oz plain nylon wind jacket. I got one for $20 and the XXL I use in winter I hot for $12. With wool it doesn't matter if a little rain or drizzle soaks through. Its very forgiving that way. You want the cheap nylon wind layers to be very light though. They are also more breathable, and hold less water when they do get wet. Cheap light nylon wind pants and rain pants are a bit harder to find bargain shopping. You are sometimes just as well to just go with regular brushed nylon hiking pants, though a little heavier. Better for bushwacking anyway if you ever have to.

[Kerosene]

A few years ago I purchased eVENT rain jacket and pants from Integral Designs for my White Mountains section hike, but didn't really put them to the test then, or even last year during a short perfect-weather trip from Atkins to Damascus.

I just returned from my Damascus to Erwin section hike and relied on this gear a lot more than I anticipated. The first day they held up well in light rain on a cool day, and I was able to easily ventilate with timely unzipping. However, it was when the weather turned cold that I really came to appreciate the flexibility of this gear. The wind picked up and snow started to fly mid-week, and I ended up wearing the jacket when the temps fell below freezing. If it was a little warm but breezy I'd put them on over a short-sleeve T and shorts. As it got colder, I switched to long pants and shirt.

I added a microfleece layer and warmly navigated the Roan balds in 15F temperatures, 40 mph sustained winds, and 70 mph gusts (fortunately never in my face for long). I was only a touch clammy during high exertion, and the fabric quickly dried out.

Cost is extremely high relative to other solutions, but I'm in love with the stuff.

[JAK]

I am trying to figure out how to save weight in clothing. Is it safe to thru hike without a wind shirt, or rain jacket...what have you done and is it successful. Can I use a windshirt as rain jacket, rain jacket as windshirt? any advice would be great. And please include all four seasons in your explanations and advice

I think I'll answer this question more directly, but in my usual overly-scientific way.

1. Is it save to hike without a wind shirt, or rain jacket?
No, you need some sort of shell not just for protection from wind and rain, but also to get the most out of your insulating layers. If you put a 4oz nylon shell, even one that breathes a little, over a wool or fleece sweater you will greatly increase its warmth, even when its neither windy nor wet. You only need one shell for this.

2. Can I use a windshirt as rain jacket, rain jacket as windshirt?
You only need one shell for this, but it is usually better to have a wind shell and a rain shell for the upper body. A wind shell breathes better than a rain layer, but it still helps a little as a rain layer. A rain layer is more waterproof, but doesn't breathe as well. There are materials that do a fair job of doing both, but you might end up with just as much weight. For the lower body you can usually get by with just one or the other, and nylon hiking pants can serve as both.

In winter I use the same shell materials as the rest of the year, but carry more wool and fleece and skin layers. I only use down in my sleeping bag, or for my winter parkas that I only wear in town or on day hikes. People use down successfully but I think it needs more protection than wool and fleece.

[Dogwood]

I am trying to figure out how to save weight in clothing. Is it safe to thru hike without a wind shirt, or rain jacket...what have you done and is it successful. Can I use a windshirt as rain jacket, rain jacket as windshirt? any advice would be great. And please include all four seasons in your explanations and advice

Assuming, U FIRST, reduced wt., probably more easily, with your pack, shelter, sleep system, and cooking gear/food wt., and, now, R looking at reducing clothing wt. for an AT thru-hike it's not the best idea to eliminate rain gear for your entire hike. An uncomfortable and possibly dangerous situation can quickly develop, particularly if U have an early start date. I find it just too valuable when I do need it. And this advice comes from someone who routinely has a base wt. under 5 lbs. And hear me right. I'm not saying that I don't sometimes leave the rain gear at home, but I wouldn't do it for my entire AT thru-hike.

I expect my rain jacket to do double duty also as a windshirt and/or an additional layering piece when I do carry the rain jacket. I don't normally treat these two articles of clothing as just a windshirt or just a rain jacket. Likewise, when I'm carrying just a windshirt I expect the windshirt to be worn at other times than just when I want to block the wind. It's also a good idea to explore UL waterproof rain jackets/ponchos rather than nixing the idea of never carrying rain gear. Truely waterproof rain jackets can be had for as little as 4-5 ozs.(granted, they may not be the most feature rich or breathable, but there R sometimes tradeoffs when U want to cut it this close with saving wt.). I can live with those rain gear wts. for what they provide!

Here is another idea. If U keep close attention to the upcoming weather U can save the rain gear wt. by priority shipping your rain gear ahead on the trail when U don't need it.

My most recent biggest wt. savings in clothing have come from switching from heavier bulkier fleece clothing to high quality goose down or synthetic insulation(Primaloft, Exceloft, etc). and merino wool base layers.

Just some ideas. Certainly not for everyone, but maybe, some of it can get U thinking in a different direction. CARPE DIEM!

[verber]

It's possible to do without a rain jacket assuming you are working hard and it's not too cold, with modest insulation and a wildshirtYou will be wet, but you can stay warm enough. Then you get out of the rain and layer on your high loft jacket or get into your sleeping bag. I wouldn't recommend this approach doing a thru-hike on the AT.

It's possible to use a rain shell as a wind shirt, but when the temp is above 30-60F depending on the person and the rain jacket you will be swimming in sweat. I highly recommend using some highly breathable, wind resistant shirt. This can be a purchase driven windshirt like the Patagonia Houdini, or a basic supplex / nylon hiking shirt for warmer temps, and something like the dri ducks rain jacket for cooler temps.

A bunch more thoughts at http://www.verber.com/mark/outdoors/gear/clothing.html

[JAK]

That was a great clothing article Mark. Lots of good information there.
I particularly liked the table of loft vs temperature for different activity levels.
Too bad you can't wear wool, but you still gave it some attention.

[Texasgirl]

I searched online for the < 4oz rain jackets mentioned in this post, and most what I found were 9 oz or more. Even the Marmot driclime windshirt is 10 or 11 oz if I remember correctly. Where are these 4oz rain layers?

[JAK]

I like to look at the top end UL stuff to see how light I might be able to find stuff cheaper, or how much weight I'm giving away. Depends on your size of course, but I use the following benchmarks, which are achievable with nylon and sylnlyon.

wind layers - 5oz top, 4oz bottoms
rain layers - 8oz top, 6oz bottoms, or 8-10oz poncho/tarp.

In practice, only the wind layer top and rain poncho/tarp have been easy to find light and cheap. So I've gone that route for my top, and plain brushed nylon hiking pants or short for bottoms. I have some old nylon rain pants I use in winter but haven't been able to replace them yet. I think they are about 6oz, and no longer that waterproof. I take them in winter if I want to go with hiking shorts rather than hiking pants, along with all the other layers.

I will likely pay more from something UL top end, but I like to try it on in person first and I don't get out that much. Alot of very good outfitters don't seem to carry the very light stuff, perhaps because the heavier stuff can sell for a higher price because that's the way most people still think.

[Panzer1]

Can I use a windshirt as rain jacket, rain jacket as windshirt? any advice would be great.

No.

Panzer