Demise of another Outfitter!!!!!!

[Toolshed]

Just found out the OutdoorOutlet.com went by the wayside. This is painful because they were a great resource and a Kelty Gear Outlet.
If anyone knows of another kelty Gear Outle, please pass it along....
Thanks
'shed

[woodsy]

We lost a EMS store in the capital (city?) of Augusta on Jan 1st.
One left in Portland.
Pickins are gettin slim here if you want to touch/feel/try on the merchandise.

[RedneckRye]

Support your local independent shop.

[TOW]

Support your local independent shop.

don't do it, it's a conspiracy......

[Wise Old Owl]

While some chains are going out of business, some chains stores will have a few unprofitable stores and will never come back. It's easier to close a few stores so the rest survive. Its amazing as the high costs of leases drive the prices up on goods and they struggle to compete with the internet. Other reasons are the lease is up and they want a better location. Over the years we have seen outfitters come and go. Dicks Sporting Goods & Sport Authority is on the list of "gee I wish they would go"
These mass market chains drive low quality goods to the masses, sparking new chains, and aquisions Ace, Golf Galaxy, etc and showed their investors profits of 11 million over the holiday season by staying open all night. Just like Walmart drives all the little stores out of business - These mega stores and Walmart are death to the outfitter.

[jersey joe]

survival of the fittest...

[coldspring]

I don't know how so many of them make it. I suppose it is mostly through the sale of expensive outdoor branded clothing, so people can publicly portray an outdoor lifestyle.

As far as gear buying goes. I'm poor, and look for the lowest price. If I want something, I can go to one of those local retailers, pay $200 retail plus sales tax, and put up with a salesman that is pushy or exaggerates the product, or I can go online and find that same item for $119, no tax, and free shipping. I don't see a lot of future for local retailers.

[KG4FAM]

I don't know how so many of them make it. I suppose it is mostly through the sale of expensive outdoor branded clothing, so people can publicly portray an outdoor lifestyle.

As far as gear buying goes. I'm poor, and look for the lowest price. If I want something, I can go to one of those local retailers, pay $200 retail plus sales tax, and put up with a salesman that is pushy or exaggerates the product, or I can go online and find that same item for $119, no tax, and free shipping. I don't see a lot of future for local retailers.

Same here, I ain't made of money either. I have enough experience that I do not need to have someone holding my hand when buying gear so the local "expert pack fitter" guy is kind of useless to me.

I don't see how any local outfitters stay in business when customers can walk in, get fitted, walk out, buy online.

[uphillklimber]

What is really unfortunate here is that stoes such as Sports Authority and Dick's are able to sell enough things to supply school sports and golf to keep themselves viable. How many hockey teams need to be outfitted every year? Foot ball teams? Baseball teams? Even track teams? That is a whole lot of business to cover the overhead and provide a profit (the only reason anyone stays in business, remove the profit, and the business is gone).

Now let's talk about outfitting a hiker or backpacker. The typical backpacker will have maybe 2 grand tied to his back as he hikes. How many are there spread throughout the woods in your area? And most of that gear is years old, only being replaced when it stops functioning. It never has to look good or be the latest and greatest.

This is similar to most gas stations. Few of them could survive on the gasoline sales. They need to sell snacks, beer, cigarettes and lottery tickets to keep themselves viable.

I'm not excusing what is happening, this is just the reality of it all. If you can find a store that will supply your needs, overlook the fact that they may be selling gear for other people and needs, and be thankful you have an outlet of any type near you.

[gaga]

survival of the fittest...

survival of the Cheapest

[buckwheat]

Its amazing as the high costs of leases drive the prices up on goods and they struggle to compete with the internet.

The cost of leases is about to go through the floor as major electronics retailers close up entire chains and lay off tens of thousands of workers. This should translate into lower costs for the outfitters located in strip malls and such.

It will be interesting to see which outfitters realize they must compete on price and pass the lease savings onto the consumer, and which outfitters go out of business because they think they can pocket the lease savings.

[RedneckRye]

I don't know how so many of them make it. I suppose it is mostly through the sale of expensive outdoor branded clothing, so people can publicly portray an outdoor lifestyle.

As far as gear buying goes. I'm poor, and look for the lowest price. If I want something, I can go to one of those local retailers, pay $200 retail plus sales tax, and put up with a salesman that is pushy or exaggerates the product, or I can go online and find that same item for $119, no tax, and free shipping. I don't see a lot of future for local retailers.

As a guy that has worked at a couple of small local retailers for the last decade I LOVE this attitude. Everyday I get internetted. Someone comes in, tries on a bunch of jackets for fit and asks me questions about this one versus that one versus the other one. Or tries on several boots or a bunch of packs and uses the inventory at my shop and training that my staff has to figure out what fits. Then they go home and order the same product online for a cheaper price. It gets even better when they have to come back to the shop get the pack adjusted so that it will fit right. I guess service and the ability to touch, feel and try and compare products isn't worth a few extra $$$.

You are correct about clothing keeping actual brick and mortar shops (and probably all of the internet discount sites) in business. The profit margin is better on softgoods than it is on hardgoods. Also, just about everyone needs/ wants a new fleece, set of long johns, pair of socks, ski jacket, etc every year. God bless the pink North Face Denali fleece jacket that every highs school or college girl must own. If a shop sells enough of those, then maybe they can afford to have half a dozen Western Mountaineering bags, a selection of Osprey packs, and a full set of Black Diamond cams sitting there in inventory that someone might buy. If there isn't a snow covered mountain right outside the front door of the shop in your town, it is absolutely the "selling of the outdoor lifestyle" that keeps them in business. If there is a snow covered mountain right outside the front door of the shop in your town, then it is doubly the "selling of the outdoor lifestyle" that keeps them in business. If gear shops only sold "gear" to actual backpackers or kayakers or climbers then the vast majority of them would close within a few months.

Also, as far as a lease goes, unless you are about to sign a new one they don't get cheaper. Moving to a new location for a cheaper lease if you are already an established business is a nightmare and a good way to loose the customers that may only stop in once or twice a year. They come back to the old location, it is empty, they assume that the shop has closed because of the high rent, the economy, loosing business to the internet.

Just my $.02, but since it is here in internet-land, it is only worth $.01.

[Serial 07]

such is the way of capitalism...

[OldStormcrow]

survival of the Cheapest

To me, shopping at an EMS or REI rather than your local outfitter is comparable to shopping at Lowes or Home Depot instead of your local hardware store. It's almost always cheaper, it's sometimes easier, and it's depressing as hell to have to.

[KG4FAM]

To me, shopping at an EMS or REI rather than your local outfitter is comparable to shopping at Lowes or Home Depot instead of your local hardware store. It's almost always cheaper, it's sometimes easier, and it's depressing as hell to have to.

Not really. I pay less for nuts and bolts at my local place than Lowe's. Also at REI and the local place they both sell stuff for MSRP unless they have a specific sale going on and then the sales are about the same as well. I don't mind shopping at REI because of their 100% garuntee.

[snowhoe]

I just dont see how any of the big store or the small shops can charge what they do for stuff. I think charging $130.00 for a fleece sweater that cost maybe $30.00 to make is not cool but what you going to do? A lot of the local fly fishing shops are going out of business here too. Ever since they put in a bass pro shop and sportsman warehouse. I go to a local fly shop and they to said its hard to compete with the big chains. They say they will buy a new fly rod from bass pro shop and then come into the small fly shop and want them to show them how to use it. Most of the time they dont charge but if you bought the equipment from someone elese they had to start charging.

[mfshop]

Just found out the OutdoorOutlet.com went by the wayside. This is painful because they were a great resource and a Kelty Gear Outlet.
If anyone knows of another kelty Gear Outle, please pass it along....
Thanks
'shed

Jeez. These guys are my local shop, & I didn't even know they closed. Very sad to hear...

[flemdawg1]

I liked outdoor Outlet as well. Great deals on refurb Kelty stuff (got a $250 tent there for $99).

[The Scribe]

survival of the fittest...

Or in this case, "Survival of the (out)fitt(er).

[Wise Old Owl]

As a guy that has worked at a couple of small local retailers for the last decade I LOVE this attitude. Everyday I get internetted. Someone comes in, tries on a bunch of jackets for fit and asks me questions about this one versus that one versus the other one. Or tries on several boots or a bunch of packs and uses the inventory at my shop and training that my staff has to figure out what fits. Then they go home and order the same product online for a cheaper price. It gets even better when they have to come back to the shop get the pack adjusted so that it will fit right. I guess service and the ability to touch, feel and try and compare products isn't worth a few extra $$$.

You are correct about clothing keeping actual brick and mortar shops (and probably all of the internet discount sites) in business. The profit margin is better on softgoods than it is on hardgoods. Also, just about everyone needs/ wants a new fleece, set of long johns, pair of socks, ski jacket, etc every year. God bless the pink North Face Denali fleece jacket that every highs school or college girl must own. If a shop sells enough of those, then maybe they can afford to have half a dozen Western Mountaineering bags, a selection of Osprey packs, and a full set of Black Diamond cams sitting there in inventory that someone might buy. If there isn't a snow covered mountain right outside the front door of the shop in your town, it is absolutely the "selling of the outdoor lifestyle" that keeps them in business. If there is a snow covered mountain right outside the front door of the shop in your town, then it is doubly the "selling of the outdoor lifestyle" that keeps them in business. If gear shops only sold "gear" to actual backpackers or kayakers or climbers then the vast majority of them would close within a few months.


Just my $.02, but since it is here in internet-land, it is only worth $.01.

When I posted before I didn't think this would be the direction the thread would take. But you hit the lottery of observation in retail. I would spot that attitude of the internet and ask nicely, did you purchase it here (if it looked new) and follow with "Our company prides itself on supporting folk who purchase here, what else can I support you with?" They just don't get it, IF they purchase on the internet and consistently pick your brain, enthusiasm, and knowledge, you just don't need that kind of customer.

UPHILLKLIMBER
Dick's sport goods is not supported by sport or school teams, although they do reach out once a year with coupons for the coaches, and scoutmasters of the team with sales packets. Dick's is supported by the Golf section #1 and Treadmills #2 and lots of Clothing, The clothing (a small portion) is marked up 40%. and covers the overhead. Mostly mom's with kids!

COLDSPRING
There are no salespeople working at REI, EMS, or your local outfitter (PERIOD) They are like you and me, they work for an hourly wage, they have enthusiasm for the sport, knowledge of their products. They do not earn commission. They are order takers, and not once in walking into hundreds of different retail stores has anyone been pushy except at a shisty diamond store where I walked out. I am more likely to walk out if I haven't been at least greeted. At EMS they used to get an "award" for selling a kayak or something, but I can guess that is gone too. Salespeople earn commission and are hit over the head with classes on product and closing the deal. Negotiation as part of the sale is frequently involved. If you ever get to sit though a Time Share experience, a five star car dealership, buying a home, Mens Wearhouse those are salespeople.