Fire

[ibigler5]

OK so this may be a stupid question, but here it goes.
I understand that we, as trail hikers, we want to keep the trail the way we found it when we got there. So I was wondering about camp fires. If you build a fire in an area that fires are not supposed be built, is that bad or is there a penalty of some sort?

What if after you put out the fire, you dig a hole and bury the ashes, so the area is the same as when you got there, is that ok?

[emerald]

I understand that we want to keep the trail the way we found it when we got there. If you build a fire in an area that fires are not supposed be built, is that bad or is there a penalty of some sort?

Regulations and guidelines exist for a reason. Might be a steep penalty, especially if your campfire gets away from you. You could be billed for at least the costs of extinguishing it in some locations.

Costs accumulate into the 1000s of dollars rapidly and total costs some may never have imagined when air drops of water or other supressants are required.

What if after you put out the fire, you dig a hole and bury the ashes, so the area is the same as when you got there, is that ok?

It's good to see you are thinking and considering the consequences of your actions, but it wouldn't be the same, would it?

Campfires should be no larger than necessary, attended at all times and be completely extinguished with water until cool to the touch before moving on. In more pristine areas, coals should be burned as near as possible to ash and then scatterred. Fire rings should be broken up, the rocks scattered and the forest floor restored to the condition in which it was found as near as possible.

Campfires should not be extinguished by burying the fire with soil especially dry organic soil. They are best built on mineral soil. Many a campfire thought smothered with soil has remained warm underground only to later spread to the surrounding forest unbeknownst to the person who built it and left the area.

Read ATC's Plan a Hike and Leave No Trace (LNT) pages. LNT is a set of 7 guidelines which will help you to make informed decisions.

[ibigler5]

thank you very much

[emerald]

Before building a campfire, it's important to look into what laws or regulations may apply and also to consider whether it's safe given the prevailing conditions.

Of course the best way to avoid impacts associated with campfires is to not build any at all. There may be designated places where they can be contructed with little impact and easily kept under control. Such places would be preferrable.

It's also better to use an existing campsite or fire ring rather than establish a new one. I'd prefer to encounter them just off the trail where they are easily discovered, but not in plain view of the trail.

[emerald]

I don't have any of the 3 handbooks which will be used by this year's through hikers. There should be information related to campfires in them. If not, watch for signage.

I've posted information here on a number of occasions related to Pennsylvania, where there are multiple land management agency partners and the regulations concerning campfires are somewhat complex and in some cases difficult to determine in the field.

At some point, I'd like to gather that information and would like to see it put where it will be accessible.

[Rockhound]

be responsible and use common sense. Probably the answer to a lot of questions on here. At shelters use the designated fire pits. When elsewhere, 1) make sure it's permitted. 2) Leave no evidence of a fire when you're done and make sure the fire is completely extinguished before you leave. Also when at shelters collect the wood as far from the shelter as you can. The biggest anti-fire argument I hear is that shelter areas are picked clean of wood. Also use only dead wood and downed branches.

[Lone Wolf]

OK so this may be a stupid question, but here it goes.
I understand that we, as trail hikers, we want to keep the trail the way we found it when we got there. So I was wondering about camp fires. If you build a fire in an area that fires are not supposed be built, is that bad or is there a penalty of some sort?

What if after you put out the fire, you dig a hole and bury the ashes, so the area is the same as when you got there, is that ok?

it's all good in my book
YBMV

[KG4FAM]

Also when at shelters collect the wood as far from the shelter as you can. The biggest anti-fire argument I hear is that shelter areas are picked clean of wood.

Why should everyone else get all the convenient fire wood? It would be easier to collect the wood far from the shelter since it is not picked over, but I wouldn't leave it for the next guy who is not going to burn it up anyway.

[emerald]

There was a time when it was considered proper etiquette to gather some firewood for others who follow, especially when having used firewood provided by others. A small quantity of dry wood can be a welcome sight when dry wood is difficult to obtain.

[Rockhound]

Why should everyone else get all the convenient fire wood? It would be easier to collect the wood far from the shelter since it is not picked over, but I wouldn't leave it for the next guy who is not going to burn it up anyway.

How to respond? Even if wood was abundant near the shelter, that is often the case early in the season, Go the extra mile,(or 200 feet) Collect enough for you and maybe some for the next group. If enough people do this perhaps the areas around shelters wont be as bare. Yes there will always be those that pick the closest wood, and litter, and graffiti the shelters, and don't bury their crap/T.P. etc... Why should the actions of these people justify others doing the same?

[MOWGLI]

Regarding fires, here are a some good guidelines;

1. Don't build any new fire rings. There are already too many.
2. Use only dead & downed wood.
3. In windy & dry conditions.. think twice.
4. Don't build a bonfire, or lay a 15' long piece of wood across your fire.
5. Follow the regs
6. Enjoy yourself

[KG4FAM]

Yes there will always be those that pick the closest wood, and litter, and graffiti the shelters, and don't bury their crap/T.P. etc... Why should the actions of these people justify others doing the same?

So picking the close firewood falls in the same category as littering, graffiti and not burying your poop these days? So should we not collect water from the closest spring either? How about lets leave all the flat tent sites for the next person who comes in and sleep on a root covered piece of ground. Lets all stay in our tents on sunny days and only walk on rainy ones to protect the tranquility of the perfect days for others. Being a slob is bad, but trying to say that you should not take advantage of what is around you is not the same.

[SGT Rock]

Stealth camp. Most of the time fires are too much work anyway.

[emerald]

I'm not disappointed when firewood is hard to come by near shelters. Less fuel is available in the event someone is careless and a fire spreads into the woods. I look at it as fuel reduction which reduces what's available to fuel a fire that gets away.

[emerald]

So picking the close firewood falls in the same category as littering, graffiti and not burying your poop these days?

No, the incentive and reward for gathering the farwood is having some to burn and not needing to look as long. Firewood in the vicinity of shelters is a renewable resource, but one which increasingly cannot meet the demand in many locations.

[SGT Rock]

So let me get this straight...

Are you saying I should not get the firewood close to the shelter because that means it will still be there for someone else?

[superman]

I stealth camp when ever I can. I don't make a fire except with my alcohol stove to screw up yet another meal.

[emerald]

I'd rather see less fires, but if someone really desires a fire and they can do so legally and safely, they should kindle one and enjoy it. I enjoy a campfire myself on occasion although I probably wouldn't kindle one except at a site specifically designated for that purpose.

Someone who wants to build a fire should be prepared to take full responsibility for it meaning they should not leave an unsightly mess to greet others who follow them. I could care less where they obtain their firewood so long as they are using dead and downed wood and building fires no larger than they really require.

My biggest concerns involve the costs, risks assumed by fire fighters and resource damage which results from wildfires. Here in Pennsylvania, most of our firefighters are volunteers who must to take time off from their jobs to fight fires resulting in lost productivity to their employers and in some cases maybe even income to support their families. It's increasingly difficult to staff volunteer fire companies.

[JF2CBR]

I'm not sure I'd feel like I was camping without a fire. It keeps me warm and adds a feeling of safety, almost feels like a companion.

Fires are one of the most primal things on the earth, to me that's special.

With a realistic point of view, I feel having a fire and taking proper care of it afterwards will do NO significant damage to anything or anyone.

It seems today like people get erked about anything you want to do in the woods other than tip toe through them. Don't look at that tree for too long or it will get depressed and cause polar ice caps to melt, killing thousands of baby whales....you're not a baby whale killer are you?!

[SGT Rock]

I'm not sure I'd feel like I was camping without a fire. It keeps me warm and adds a feeling of safety, almost feels like a companion.

Fires are one of the most primal things on the earth, to me that's special.

With a realistic point of view, I feel having a fire and taking proper care of it afterwards will do NO significant damage to anything or anyone.

It seems today like people get erked about anything you want to do in the woods other than tip toe through them. Don't look at that tree for too long or it will get depressed and cause polar ice caps to melt, killing thousands of baby whales....you're not a baby whale killer are you?!

Don't let them sweat you. It's just that a lot of us get to the point that after a 17 mile day all we want to do is eat, read a book, and go to sleep to some tunes. Fires are work. When I go camping with the family we have very nice fires - but while hiking for distance I only make fires when I need them and it makes sense.