Cold and Miserable Ultra Lighters

[JumpInTheLake]

I've been following the debates between the ultra-light hikers and those who pack for comfort. Many of those who pack for comfort claim to have observed cold and miserable ultra-light hikers who are not enjoying their ascetic conditions.

Let's hear the stories!

Who has directly observed miserable ultra-light hikers?

This is not to start a debate, just tell the tales please.

[snowhoe]

Tray mountain shelter 2006. It was raining soooo hard and there was a couple that had a tarp tent or something like it and the water was just running right thru the middle of where they were sleeping. They had to go into town at Unicoi gap to dry out. I was so glad I had a tent.

[Pokey2006]

Well, he wasn't an ultra-lighter, but for some reason one guy I bumped into had ditched his rain coat. I guess to save weight. It was summer, but, still, it does get cold after hiking in the rain for several hours. And, of course, it did rain. He was one very cold and miserable hiker during that rainstorm. He ended up going to town and had a new raincoat by the time he returned to the trail.

Lesson is, if you must lighten the load, don't do it at the expense of your rain coat!

[McKeever]

I hike as ultra light as it can get and never had any problems. I've weathered raging thunder storms that bent other hikers tent poles like match sticks and my 14oz tarp did just fine. Same for 2' of snow. Never been in danger or complained. The ones having trouble don't know what they are doing just as much as an over packed rat. Ultra light is not for most beginners, heavy packs aren't either.

[chrysalis clover]

The Rain In Maine...
We encountered a couple with enormous packs and hundreds of bucks worth of Goretex on their bodies, just as wet through and through as we were. Couple weeks later we encountered a pair of ultra-lighters in shorts and T's each holding some little piece of plastic thing over their heads to no apparent avail. Our own gear was somewhere between the extremes. Who was "miserable" and who was not? We were all out there; we all had inconveniences.

I'd agree that personal preference and knowing one's own skill level with whatever one does take are more important than ascribing to a particular method/style of hiking.

[Bootstrap]

Tray mountain shelter 2006. It was raining soooo hard and there was a couple that had a tarp tent or something like it and the water was just running right thru the middle of where they were sleeping. They had to go into town at Unicoi gap to dry out. I was so glad I had a tent.

Hmmm, I just got a tarp tent ;->

Looking at the thing, I suppose site selection is pretty important, it's not meant to be in the middle of a stream. But y ou can stay dry with just a tarp, don't see why this shouldn't work.

Jonathan

[mtnkngxt]

Theres a difference between UL people and unprepared people. Not carrying a suitable shelter be it a tent, tarp, hammock, bivy... or not knowing how to properly deploy and use said shelter is not dependant on how much it weighs or what it is made of. I laugh at people in 50lb packs huffing and puffing up big hills. When they get to camp they have 3 pots to cook the same lipton sides we all eat. I believe in the theory of multi use. My ULA rainskirt can also be used as a ground sheet. MY tang cup can be used as a water scoop or a drinking cup sans a drop of bleach and some hot water inbetween uses. I guarantee that in anything less than full on noreaster or hurricane conditions a 6lb tent will not keep you any drier than my tarp or hammock and tarp. HYOH but don't assume you that you can tell others about something you do not practice because it makes and a** out of you not me.

[bigcranky]

Hmmm, I just got a tarp tent ;->

Looking at the thing, I suppose site selection is pretty important, it's not meant to be in the middle of a stream. But you can stay dry with just a tarp, don't see why this shouldn't work.

Correct, site selection is crucial, just like using a tarp. I've had no issues in serious rain and snow with my tarps and tarptents.

I've met many unprepared hikers, but I think most of them had monster packs. Much of it has to do with experience and skill level.

[Jorel]

Great thread. I heard in the Whites in 2006 from a guy carrying a 55 lb pack "go lite, go cold, go hungry, go home". He was obviously not an ultralite guy. I have no problem with anyone carrying 100 lbs if they think they need it, and they can carry it. These days, however, anyone can be, at a minimum, "lite", and still comfortable. I also do not think you need to spend a fortune to be "lite", just focus on multi use. My Packa is my rain coat and my ground sheet for my Wild Oasis 18 oz tent. I see no need for more than one cup. My water treatment is either Steripen or CD tabs. etc etc. If others need more, want more, and are willing to carry more, I have no problem with that either. My only issue with "ultra lighters" is when they come into camp and ask directions from my guidebook because they wanted to save a few ounces not carrying their own, or ask to borrow other "comfort" items. If you claim to be an ultra lighter, live the life. Don't expect me to make your life comfortable in camp so you can be comfortable hiking the trail.

[Lone Wolf]

i love boiling water and making hot cocoa for hypothermic go-liters that constantly stumble into camp. they don't carry stoves so i'm glad to help out.

[Frick Frack]

My only issue with "ultra lighters" is when they come into camp and ask directions from my guidebook because they wanted to save a few ounces not carrying their own, or ask to borrow other "comfort" items. If you claim to be an ultra lighter, live the life. Don't expect me to make your life comfortable in camp so you can be comfortable hiking the trail.

Good point. I do not remember anyone carrying too much asking for something other than advice but I can recall numerous occasions of someone not carrying enough asking to borrow what they need. That drives me crazy!!!

To answer the question to this post though, I have seen "cold & miserable" hikers equally distributed among the many types of hikers but one episode comes to mind for the request of an ULer story. On my 1st section hike of the AT with my brother-in-law we hiked the GSMNP. We stayed at Tri-Corner Knob one night and a guy showed up who was trying to hike the park (75 miles) in two days. He was proud of his weight of around 10lbs (maybe less??). He came into the shelter wet & cold and got in his bag to warm up. He was shivering & miserable. He did not have a stove to fix a warm meal and refused some tea we offered. He did not have a warm enough bag, no pad, and not enough clothes. He was packed to move fast and far but not prepared for the elements (in my mind). I admired him though because he refused any help and wanted to learn for himself what mistakes he had made. He got to Newfound Gap the next day and hailed a cab to the airport and flew back to FL. I was carrying 60+lbs at the time as it was my 1st section hike so I had the opposite problem....I was carrying WAY too much.

[stumpknocker]

This issue has everything to do with personal experience and knowing what you can live with or without on the Trail.

I know a guy whose base packweight is 6 pounds and he has done the three long Trails comfortably. I hiked with him some on the AT in '02 and he was completely self sufficient to get from one re-supply to the next.

I saw him in East Glacier when he was walking the CDT in '07 and his pack looked small, but somehow he survived. That "somehow" was knowing what worked for him.

Personally, my kit is usually in the low 20 pound range with food and water. I have no idea what my base pack weight is and I don't care. I carry what I know I need to make me comfortable on Trail and what I know I need to survive comfortably.

I've never run into any ultra light hikers that needed help, but I have run into hikers that have needed help. That takes me right back to my first sentence in this post.

[Ender]

I have seen more cold and miserable heavy weight hikers than UL hikers, but my guess would be the percentage of each would be about the same. Or even a little higher for the heavy weight hikers, since a lot of them tend to be inexperienced weekenders carrying cotten t-shirts and jeans.

I'm a mid-weight hiker, neither UL or UH... my pack sits, full with food and water, about 25 pounds, which is what works for me in terms of carrying and camp comfort. It's all about personal experience, and knowing what works for you.

[DavidNH]

Well, he wasn't an ultra-lighter, but for some reason one guy I bumped into had ditched his rain coat. I guess to save weight. It was summer, but, still, it does get cold after hiking in the rain for several hours. And, of course, it did rain. He was one very cold and miserable hiker during that rainstorm. He ended up going to town and had a new raincoat by the time he returned to the trail.

Lesson is, if you must lighten the load, don't do it at the expense of your rain coat!

Man of all the things to get rid of.. his rain gear!!!! This is up there with getting rid of your hat and mittens in the mountains in October! lesson learned I guess. I take it this chap hadn't done much hiking in the Applachians!!

DavidNH

[JAK]

Staying warm is mostly about clothing, and knowing the coldest and wettest it might get before you leave, and how much clothing you actually need for such conditions.

Lightweight hikers tend to arm themselves with more knowledge and better information.
They are also more likely to test their clothing systems, and themselves.

I suppose a few of them might spend too much time grinding down toothbrushes.

I've been cold and wet and miserable lots of times though.
Hiking, sailing, paddling, skiing, playing in the snow, whatever.

So what?

[JAK]

If your not cold and miserable some of the time you're doing something wrong.
That's not about saving weight though. That's just living right.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Man of all the things to get rid of.. his rain gear!!!! This is up there with getting rid of your hat and mittens in the mountains in October! lesson learned I guess. I take it this chap hadn't done much hiking in the Applachians!!

DavidNH

I always find one of the best examples of "I won't need that" is all the people without any warm hats on a cool(cold) windy day on Mt. Washington in July. You just know they're in pain.

[Jayboflavin04]

Being a noob and not knowing what works for me. I know I have probably blown my 30lbs target. That is ok! I will pack it I will accept the weight penalty. I have some comfort/cushion built into my trip.

But that is my goal of the trip to take careful inventory of my gear and work backwards.

Take a look give me your thoughts March 29th-April 3rd Allens Gap - Erwin

Base layer- columbia mid wght polyester-not sure
Inulating Layer - Montebell UL down jacket- 10oz
OR Ion wind shirt- 3.5oz
3x total socks- smartwool hiker socks
(above item stored in Sea-2-summit dry sack big enought for sleeping bag if weather is really wet)
Zip off leg style TNF pants
columbia Titanium T-shirt for hiking
Montrail non-gortex mid hiker
Marmot Precip top/bottom
WM Ultralight
Titanium Goat bivy 6 oz (cushion comfort item, really wet cold snap or shelter use)
HS TT Cloudburst 2
Prolite 3
Feather Fire alky stove...carrying xtra fuel...learning curve- 30oz total fuel.
Snow peak Ti cook kit/Stainless camp cup (already owned cup)
Mini Bic
MLD bearbag
2L Platy hoser
2.5L platy carried empty for camp
1 Nalgene for measuring and making drinks
Sweetwater filter/aqua mira backup
BD Trail Trekking poles
(Ditty Bag)
firesteel
map/compass/first aid/hygene 1/2 MSR pack towel
50' 2mm rope
15' 2mm shock cord (experiment with TT)
Leatherman micra
Book(learning to read map and compass)
2 bandana...one in first aid kit
Note pad/pencil
Camera (cannon point n shoot)
head lamp
TP(1/2 roll no tube) n half pack wet wipes


Osprey Aether 70(not my first choice in packs Heavy but comfortable)
Pack cover
Have plenty of room left over in my pack!

[McKeever]

Good point. I do not remember anyone carrying too much asking for something other than advice but I can recall numerous occasions of someone not carrying enough asking to borrow what they need. That drives me crazy!!!

To answer the question to this post though, I have seen "cold & miserable" hikers equally distributed among the many types of hikers but one episode comes to mind for the request of an ULer story. On my 1st section hike of the AT with my brother-in-law we hiked the GSMNP. We stayed at Tri-Corner Knob one night and a guy showed up who was trying to hike the park (75 miles) in two days. He was proud of his weight of around 10lbs (maybe less??). He came into the shelter wet & cold and got in his bag to warm up. He was shivering & miserable. He did not have a stove to fix a warm meal and refused some tea we offered. He did not have a warm enough bag, no pad, and not enough clothes. He was packed to move fast and far but not prepared for the elements (in my mind). I admired him though because he refused any help and wanted to learn for himself what mistakes he had made. He got to Newfound Gap the next day and hailed a cab to the airport and flew back to FL. I was carrying 60+lbs at the time as it was my 1st section hike so I had the opposite problem....I was carrying WAY too much.

I wonder how many noobs just read a book on light hiking and don't follow the complete system and make sub par substitutes for lack of preparation. It seams that most of the observations here here are about hikers who left critical components out of their pack like maps and substituted under rated gear like an inadequate sleeping bag. For stoves, even Jardine stated in his book that he regretted not carrying a stove on their AT thru so LW is right, always carry a light stove. I always carry full maps, data pages, companion pages, stove, 20 degree bag, and 10x12 sil nylon tarp, and the rest of the essentials. LW is easy and works but it seams like hikers invested in other gear resist change.

[Yahtzee]

Stories of miserable ULer's pale in comparison to the numbers of miseries heaped upon those who carry too much. But that complaining usually just gets lumped in with the general hiking complaints that accompany each days' hike. If those with too much carried lighter gear they would bitch so much less.

As was said earlier, there is a big difference between being UL and unprepared. BTW, I'm not UL but I do incorporate many UL gear choices and much of the philosophy when filling my pack. I carry a go-lite pack and a tarptent and now a down bag that weighs only slightly more than a pound. But I also carry a thermarest and a filter. My pack isn't UL but is consistently under 20 pounds.

Anyone who skimps on clothing, which I have been guilty of from time to time, deserves to suffer the consequences of that choice. Just as those with three sets of pants deserve to have their knees in pain at the bottom of a long downhill. Choices and responsibility for those choices. One of the beauties of hiking is that the consequences of our choices are apparent and directly affect our daily lives on the trail. Gets one's head on straight real quick.