Planning the Progression

[PHeller]

I need to go lighter.

I'm not enjoying hiking, and because of trying to cut weight in bad ways, I'm now not enjoying camping either. I find myself ditching "start water" (water from home), extra clothing (lightweight stuff), rain gear, food, and all the other things that make me more able to enjoy the aspects of the hike. I'm still unable to break the 35lbs mark due to a heavy old backpack, heavy sleeping bag (EMS 30degree synthetic), an older 2-man Eureka (3.5lbs?) and some other stuff that just seems to add up really quick.

My first plan of attack seems to be the sleeping bag. I don't camp much during the winter (although I'd like to), and the EMS brand bag doesn't seem to do much good in below freezing weather, and is too hot during the summer. I've tried taking a small fleece liner, and that works pretty well on warmer nights, but I get cold below 60 degrees. I'd be interested in something like a quilt if it was reasonably priced.

I'm sure I could also go to a much lighter pack, but have no idea where to start.

I'd like to move to a lighter shoe as well. I'm an experienced hiker, and don't have foot problems, and have pretty good foot placement, even when I'm tired. I'm thinking I could go to cross training or trail running shoes and also be able to wear them for other stuff. Don't know how to find the ones with the reinforced soles.

As far as hammocks vs bear are concerned...I know it sounds stupid...but are hammocks any less safe due to their placement when a bear comes strolling into camp? I know...totally absurd to be worrying about such a stupid thing, but I can't help but think of being a tasty meat bag for a bear hanging in a hammock.

I've got a Jetboil, and I can't justify buying something else to replace it...don't have that kind of money.

Things to consider:

- In College, poor, and like multi-use gear. Ability to use shoes or pack for things other than hiking would be great.

- Can't afford to do this all at once, so need a plan that would allow me to move towards a lightweight setup.

[Hikes in Rain]

Been there, in the process of doing that. If only I could bring myself to just toss all my old vintage gear and start anew. (Wife says I'm cheap. I tell her it's a problem in optimization: how can I get out of this and retain the maximum amount of cash. Her eyes do roll nicely)

Check out the articles here, especially the dirtbag one. Try making a mostly free and very light alcohol stove. My first creation worked well enough to amaze an elderly aerospace engineer I met at Cosby Knob Shelter last year. Trade heavier stuff sacks for the free and ultra light grocery bags your food comes in. As things wear out (which good gear never seems to do), replace with the lightest replacement that will do the job.

Lots of help here on this board. Even with my cheap, er, frugal ways, I've cut my pack weight in half by taking advice I've found here.

[Engine]

As mentioned in the post above, any of the alcohol stove designs would save considerable weight. Usually around 0.5-0.7 ounces for the stove and another ounce for the empty 8-12 fl/oz. fuel bottle.

The real savings comes from the "big 4", being pack, sleeping bag, tent, and sleeping pad. Of these, your pack should be the last thing to replace so you don't have issues with too much weight in a light pack. A down sleeping bag will be both lighter and more compressible than a synthetic bag of the same rating. Since you are a cold sleeper I would think about a 15 degree down bag which can be had for under $200.00 (a lot under if you are patient) and can weigh as little as 2 pounds.

As for a tent, there are dozens of light choices and you may even consider a tarp, but since you seem to really value comforts I would recommend a light tent. Solo single wall tents are available relatively inexpensively at less than 2 pounds. The pad is a matter of personal choice, but many UL hikers still carry a thicker pad due to the difference a good nights rest makes. The choices are many with a wide range in price as well.

Lastly, once your weight is under 30 pounds fully loaded including food and water, look at some of the lighter packs. They can range from around 10 oz. to just around 3 lbs. or so. I personally like a hipbelt for comfort, so I chose a lightweight Granite Gear pack, but look around and TRY THEM ON since your torso might not like a certain companies design.

Good luck and get outside!

[Two Tents]

Engine is right IMO. Start with a pop can stove(lots of info here to do this). E-Bay is a good place to look for a sleeping bag (down). Go to yard sales and thrift stores to look for lighter gear than what you have. Its not too hard to make an Ultra lite pack if you or some one you know can sew(again WB is agood source for this info.) To go lite or ultra lite you gotta make choices like only one utensil not all three. Gator aid bottles instead of nagalene. Don't look at wher you are with your current gear situation and get bummed out. Look at where you want to get. It's a good feeling to put your pack on and feel how much lighter it is than last time. Have fun, it can be addicting and rewarding going lite. Hope this helps! Good luck and Happy Trails---Two Tents

[Two Tents]

Oh yea, I forgot to tell you black bears are not a problem. For comfort and lite weight a hammock system can't be beat, but that is my opinion. I know I can exit My Hennessy hammock and be ready to go way faster than a tent exit. Two Tents.

[jrnj5k]

Alcohol stove is free and as lightweight as you can get pretty much. I use a go lite pinnacle pack which is 1lb 9oz. Got mine for 80 bucks and you can probably find the 08 models on ebay for a comparable price. Sleeping bag.....Campmor makes a 20* mummy bag that many people here use including myself which for $120 is a great bang for your buck. Go to walmart and get some blue foam for $8 as a sleeping pad and cut it down to 3/4 length or torso length depending on how light you want to go. Lastly, if you can get your hands on a sewing machine, you can buy some silnylon from questoutfitters and make a tarp for like $30. Enjoy and happy camping!

[Feral Bill]

As you look to buy lighter gear, buy used, closeouts, discontinued, etc. You can get a whole lot lighter without going for serious ultralight.

Ebay is the cheapskates friend.

[fiddlehead]

I'm really surprised that so many people say that alcohol stoves are lighter.
Yes, they are. But their fuel is not.

If you are out for more than 4 days, canister fuel is lighter.
I have both. I use the alcohol for 2-3 day trips and the pocket rocket for longer outings.

He already has a jet boil so I'd stick with it unless going for only short weekend trips.

The big 3 is important. Splurge for a good sleeping bag. Fine a lightweight used pack on ebay (Go-lite Breeze or similar) and use a tarp (sil nylon?) And you'll probably save yourself 5 lbs right there (or more)

Learn to camel up and there's no need to carry more than 1 or 2 litres (except perhaps PA in July/Aug) of water on the AT.

You could still probably pack a thermo-rest for your luxury item and be under 20 lbs without food.

Have fun.

[bigcranky]

I'm still unable to break the 35lbs mark due to a heavy old backpack, heavy sleeping bag (EMS 30degree synthetic), an older 2-man Eureka (3.5lbs?) and some other stuff that just seems to add up really quick.

35 pounds total weight at the beginning of the hike? That's not so bad, except that you ditched your water and some food and rain gear, etc. So call it 40 pounds if you took everything you wanted. Still not bad.

Still, you can get lighter without giving up any comfort on the trail or in camp. I'm going to assume you are doing weekend hikes in warm weather. So here's the plan:

1. Figure out what NOT to take with you. Cutting stuff from your pack is the ultimate weight savings -- it's free, and it eliminates the entire weight of the item. I think you've been doing this, but you've been cutting the wrong stuff (you need food, my friend.)

I'd like to see your complete packing list for a weekend hike. That means everything -- all the stuff you wear, carry, stick in your pockets, etc.

2. Replace some items with lighter versions. Start with small stuff that doesn't cost much. Your kitchen is a good example -- a homemade alcohol stove and a $10 3-cup pot from antigravitygear.com will give you a total kitchen weight of maybe 8 ounces (plus fuel), and works very well on a weekend hike. You can cook and eat out of the pot using only a spoon.

Other small items include your knife. The smallest Swiss Army Knife is all I carry, because it does everything I need on the trail. That replaced a much larger knife, which had earlier replaced a full-sized multitool. You can replace a filter with Aqua Mira, a camp towel with a bandana, and heavy Nalgene bottles with free Gatorade or Aqua Fina bottles. (Well, they are free once you drink the contents.)

You are young, so you can likely be comfortable on a closed cell foam pad. A 3/4-length Z-rest is inexpensive, weighs about 12 ounces, and is comfortable for many people. (I'm too heavy and crush the eggshell pattern.)

3. Replace the "big three" with lighter versions. This can get expensive, but you can do it over the long term.

Shelter: one of the lightest shelters is a sil-nylon tarp, 8x10 feet in size. With a set of stakes and guy lines, you can pitch a bomb-proof shelter for one or two people, and the total package will weigh about 16 ounces. You'll need a ground sheet, which can just be a large garbage bag slit open so it lays flat, and maybe a head net or some DEET if it's buggy. Campmor sells the Equinox tarp, which isn't too expensive. You can make your own for half the price if you can sew.

Moving up in price, comfort, and ease of use, the shelters from tarptent.com are popular with hikers. The Rainbow is a nice solo shelter that weighs 2 pounds and can handle most any three-season weather.

Sleeping bag: down bags are lighter and have a wider comfort range in my experience. Get one with a full zipper, so you can use it as a quilt in the summer. Something in the 30 to 35-degree range is good. This may be where you need to spend some money, or just haunt the sale page at REI and Campmor. This bag should ideally weigh no more than 2 pounds.

Pack: Avoid any sort of frameless rucksack at this point. There are plenty of great packs in the 2-4 pound range that have a real suspension system and can handle loads in the 30 pound range in comfort. The REI Flash packs are a good deal, as is the Six Moons Designs Starlite. You can often find end-of-season closeouts on Osprey and Gregory packs at REI, Campmor, and Sierra Trading Post. Try to keep the pack in the 3-pound range. (The Starlite is 2 pounds, and would use that 3/4 Z-rest as part of the frame, along with the to aluminum stays. I like mine.)

(An aside on frameless packs: once you get your overall weight way, way down, you can try one. They can work very well, but you really need to get the rest of your gear weight down in the 10 or 12 pound range before they work well, at least in my experience.)

If you were to buy a 2 pound pack, tarptent, and sleeping bag, your big-three weight would be 6 pounds. Add 12 ounces for a Z-rest, 8 ounces for a kitchen, a couple of water bottles, some stuff sacks, a pack cover, and you're still well under ten pounds. Three pounds of clothing should be enough for a warm weekend (not counting what you wear), then add 2 pounds of personal stuff (headlamp, maps, ear plugs, toothbrush, pocket knife, that sort of thing) and you are near 15 pounds base weight for a summer weekend hike. Add 4 pounds of food and 2 liters of water, and your total pack weight is 23 pounds as you walk away from the trailhead. If you will be out longer, add 2 pounds of food per day -- so a 5 day hike would still be under 30 pounds total weight.

This is a comfortable place to be, in my mind. Light enough to be happy walking, but with enough gear to be comfortable in camp. My summer pack is about 14 pounds base weight, but it includes camp clogs, a book, a real headlamp, even a Thermarest Prolite 4 for sleeping comfort.

[PHeller]

So I went out this past weekend for a two night 29 mile hike.

Me and a buddy did it in around 16 hours of hike time.

I tried taking a fleece sleeping bag instead of my 0º bag that weighs a ton. The fleece was lighter, but I was getting cold too. The new full length inflatable mat added some weight, but I think that kept me warmer than my half-mat. I think a 1-2lb 30º sleeping bag would allow me to use the lighter half mat and sleep warmer as well.

A buddy brought his REI Arete 2 tent, and while it was light, I still a Hammock would be the best way to seriously ditch some weight.

Overall, I felt like this was the lightest I've hiked, but it was still around that 35 or 40 pound mark. I sacrificed the camping enjoyment for the hiking enjoyment.

Biggest issue? BLISTERS

I've never had blisters this bad in these shoes before...but the 8 year old Merrells have no tread, very little waterproofing left in them (aside from what I spray on) and the insoles were marginal. I tried putting some heavy duty insoles in them but the raised my foot too high, creating achilies blisters or whatever on my heel.

At the end of the day I wasn't so much tired as I was in pain. Not enjoyable.

So...help me find some new shoes!

[garlic08]

Sorry, I missed your original question. Cheap ways to lighten up are Campmor's down bags and a simple tarp and a cut-down closed-cell foam pad. Get the pack last. The simple frameless packs, if you can get light enough to use them, are less than $100 new. Also consider a minimalist approach--just carry less. I really felt great when I was mentally able to leave my stove behind. I stopped carrying a book, camera, radio, multitool...can't get much cheaper and lighter than that.

Sounds like the foot problems are still due to the heavy load, and maybe your increased pace too. I've heard of those insoles causing problems for many others, so you're not alone there. Some use padded insoles like Spenco.

Merrells are probably good shoes for your load, but if you need a pair of running shoes, there are lots of options to try. I personally like New Balance because they come in different widths and are pretty light, but they are too flimsy for some. Most trail runners are pretty expensive for the life you get from them, often only 500 to 700 miles. Merrells will last twice that long. Good luck finding what works for you.

[BR360]

Quickest and cheapest ways for you to lose several pounds*:

1. Tarp instead of tent.
2. CCF pad instead of Thermarest.
3. Only carry sleeping clothes, and a sweater, beanie and change of socks as extra clothes.
4. Alky Stove and fuel.
5. Ditch all gizmos and geegaws except a radio or MP3 player, if you must.
6. Poncho instead of rain jacket. Can save 8+ ozs.
7. AquaPura or Potable Aqua instead of filter.
8. Scour used ads and thrift shops for a new cheap sleeping bag.
9. Scour same for used lighter pack.
10. Make sure you aren't carrying extra food.

Do NOT scrimp on basic preparedness: knife, some first-aid supplies, personal hygiene.

COMMENTS:
Tarp camping takes some getting used to when you are familiar with the illusion of safety of a tent, but once you enjoy that feeling of sitting under one looking out while it's raining (vs. being cocooned in a tent) you'll likely be hooked. Plus, easier to see those sounds at night, and going to take the nightly pee.

In summer, someone of your age can do without any sort of ground padding. Just a plastic or Tyvek sheet to keep your bag dry is all you need. Course, if you want a little insulation, then go with a blue Wally World CCF pad for under $10.00. (In the summer, sleeping right on the ground can actually keep you cooler.)

Hammock camping is great! You can make your own for under $20 (to see if it's for you) from sheeting and rope. Go to HammockForums to search around for how-tos.

FYI, 4-years ago I lightened up and went from about 35-40 lbs. to a base weight of 12-17 lbs (depending on luxury items, season, and ground or hammock camping). I wished I had kept it simple, as I spent too much money learning how to do it!

[PHeller]

Problem with the Merrells have been the breathablity. My feet are sweating inside the shoe. I also had binding issues on "winter hikers", which are Merrells as well. My summer hiking boots are 8 years old and have no tread, so need to be replaced either way.

[PHeller]

BTW I don't carry any "gizmos".

Knife, very small first aid kit, headlamp, dry socks, dry underwear (should ditch these), FrogTog Jacket, short sleeve shirt, long sleeve shirt, tent, freeze dried meals, one water bottle, Jetboil, toothbrush, harmonica, EMS Crashpad, Fleece sleeping bag.

I weighed this load and came up with around 30lbs without food or water.

[Rosborn88]

You mention being open to quilt. Not sure if you can sew at all. I am a novice sewer and just made a down quilt from Thru-Hiker.com. Came out amazing and works even into freezing temps. I spent 120 on it and several hours of work. Weighs in at 1lbs 1oz. It's a really great bag. Match that up with a golite pinacle and your in business!

This might be an expensive option, Have the Neo Air shorty - 9oz. It's very very comfortable but it will cost you 120 bucks.

[Snowleopard]

If you're in college, is there an outing/outdoors club? If so sometimes they have equipment to lend out to members.

Start weighing stuff. If you don't have access to a good enough scale, maybe your post office has one (if you're in college check labs also). Make up a spread sheet.

Tent: A 2 man Eureka tent could weigh 8-10 lbs. 3.5 lb wouldn't be bad for a 2 person tent. Weigh it (or look it up online).

Sleeping bag: For PA in the summer I don't imagine you need much.