Ken Knight Missing on Appalachian Trail

[Engine]

I don't know about your experience, but I do know colter is for real, has an AT thru-hike and has hiked 1,000 alone across Alaska. How about you?

http://www.bucktrack.com/Alaska_Photos.html

Doesn't approach that, maybe 1200+ miles total in Michigan, the Appalachians, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana and Canada over 30 years. Not including dozens of long backcountry hunting trips in many states over the years. My point, however, was that you guessed I was a noob...not the case.

[JJJ]

I love thread drift.

[Tin Man]

I love thread drift.

gotta keep the thread going until ken can speak for himself!

it would be much more interesting to hear what happened from the horse's mouth vs. all these keyboard specialists

[Engine]

gotta keep the thread going until ken can speak for himself!

it would be much more interesting to hear what happened from the horse's mouth vs. all these keyboard specialists

Do we know if Ken frequents WhiteBlaze?

[Tin Man]

Do we know if Ken frequents WhiteBlaze?

don't know, but hopefully he will speak up somewhere that we can at least link to

[Ramkitten]

I see all these arguments for SAR recently with regards to this issue, and the latest issue in the White Mountains with the newly adopted "Charge for SAR" in Negligent cases in New Hampshire.

And not to take away from your post, but to highlight the problem we are facing here. What is human life worth?

To me, my life is worth everything, to progressive people further from me it becomes worth less. Such is human nature, call it a character flaw.

But why....WHY!? Do we fund SAR projects, expect them to work for us when we need it...and then bitch about how much it costs...or...just talk dollars.

Sorry....I could care less if we do or do not fund SAR projects, just let me know what's going to happen so I can prepare. Not gonna be too many UL'ers if they have to carry extra food And a SPOT, and maps..haha, and a compass....you know..those things we carry for survival.

(I do not carry a spot, all of the rest, yes.)

I THINK we're agreeing. I'm not sure. But just to clarify--I was saying that most people in Search & Rescue--and NASAR and other agencies--including myself DON'T advocate charging rescue-ees for their rescue. Also, I wasn't trying to be cold by saying my post was "just about dollars." All I meant was to address the issue of having to pay, and I just happened to see the NASAR statement earlier today.

Personally, I hate the whole fault-finding thing. That's not why I do SAR at all. And when I'm involved in a mission that has a happy ending, there's no better feeling. Thoughts of what the "victim" (aka subject, rescue-ee) may have done wrong or could have done differently don't usually enter my mind. I just love the looks on the faces of family and friends--and the person we helped out--when things turn out like they did for Ken here.

So I just wanted to be sure you all knew that's what I meant.

K ... sorry for the "aside."

Oh yeah! And thanks for the warraghiyagey!

Deb

[warraghiyagey]

Oh yeah! And thanks for the warraghiyagey!

Deb

Yupperdoodle. . .

[Tin Man]

I THINK we're agreeing. I'm not sure.

Deb

Don't think too hard there... homer is a little lost himself

great post and approach to sar. thanks for your service

[Pokey2006]

I love thread drift.

I love watching pissing contests.

[Ramkitten]

I love watching pissing contests.

Most conversations drift. I kind of think it's interesting to see where things go. Why not?

[Matteroo]

since we're not on topic at all, I'd like to chime in that I've followed colter on here and his website and am immensely impressed with his pursuits (and sagacious advice/tips here and there) (obviously my subjective opinion).

Obviously his CDT hike wasn't the 1,000 alaskan bush miles, but have you been to most of new mexico or wyoming? I can't speak to Colorado or Montana but for NM and Wyom, there ain't shi* for many many miles!! Sure there isn't much (read: ANY) "true wilderness" (5 days on foot (and I'll leave open my definition of what 5 days on foot is so I can rebuke any statement of yours about where such wilderness may be in the 48)) in the lower 48 but don't kid yourself that when you say that the CDT doesn't have any real wilderness most people will disagree with you. Seems like you'd frequently be on a lengthy explanation when talking about wilderness with folks if you didn't make it clear from the onset what wilderness is to you.

no you're not a noob, for sure, but.. whew, its like correcting people who talk about having had a cold ice cream or beer cause your idea of 'actually cold' is -335 kelvin. okieeee...........

[GrubbyJohn]

he was found sat. according to bplite

[The Weasel]

While those who think that people who are rescued should pay the expense if they could somehow have avoided it, we live in a culture in which government and many private organizations exist to make sure that everyone has a reasonable sense of protection and safety. While in some cases there may be a fair argument for people who knowingly take chances that are extremely risky - extreme sports is one such example - in few parts of society do we say, "If you're in trouble, reach for your checkbook."

That's why Fire Departments are sometimes called "Fire Companies." They were started by private citizens who paid for the service, and later, by fire insurance companies. If your house was on fire, and you didn't pay your "subscription" or have insurance with a particular insurance company, the fire fighters would not help save your home, even if they were present to protect your neighbor, who was a part of their group. That changed for obvious reasons, and public safety is there for all our benefit, even when - as most of who, being imperfect, do - we make mistakes or are overly optimistic.

So before you start condemning this guy, or calling for a pound of flesh for something that he could have avoided by being a nice little handicapper and stayed in his bedrom (I'm handicapped, too, and mine affects my hiking experience in many ways, as well, so I'm familiar with the insensitivity of many to handicapped hikers), instead of seeking - like many of us - adventure, remember the many ways that you are protected by all of your friends and neighbors - most of whom you never meet - through taxes we all pay for services we hope we never need. That's a good thing.

Those who disagree should first read John Donne's statement; it says it all.

http://www.skrause.org/reading/donne.shtml

TW

[sarman]

As did I. By your argument, neither Bill Irwin nor Granny Gatewood should have done the AT. They should have spent more time thinking about others' feelings, rather than doing what they wanted with their lives. As I recall, she was lost and the subject of several searches, and I think it would have been a very interesting argument if you or anyone had tried to get her to carry a beacon if the technology had been available. Also, no diabetics, people allergic to bee stings, or the obese should hike the AT.

Let's take these other arguments one at a time.

1. The argument about Ken's parents is completely spurious. I know them, and they are well aware of how hopelessly headstrong their son is. Regardless of the dynamic, any discussion about how his risks affect them is a family matter, and none of your (or my) business. If you think it is, please publish your mom's phone number so that we can all give her a call and discuss your successes and failures as a progeny, and how much you consider her feelings in your daily life. ("He never calls, he never writes, and when am I going to see some grandchildren?")

2. SAR is volunteer for a reason. If you don't like it, you are free to walk away. Most searches involve someone who has pulled a dick move of some sort, so if you can't accept that you may be more fulfilled spending your time elsewhere. I made the choice to walk away and I am much happier about it. If you have stayed, you deserve all the props in the world, but the tradeoff is that you don't get to complain about it outside of SAR people. It affects the team's image, which I think you know. Your desire to remain anonymous is telling.

The rest of these are not in response to your post, but to the thread in general

3. Anyone with a disability such as a heart condition should never hike alone again (Lone Wolf) because it might affect other people. Sorry, but society is more important than you. "Hike your own hike" has been rescinded. Did someone mention that BPL was circling the wagons around one of their own? Physician, heal thyself . . .

4. I also live in Virginia and pay a buttload of taxes. I have no problem with paying the costs for a search like this. If it bothers you, just imagine that it's all coming out of my share.

5. For those who have suggested a "minder," are you volunteering? It's hard enough to find someone to hike with at all, let alone to find someone to hike at a 1/mph or less pace. A suggestion to "hike with someone," while easy to make, is the equivalent of saying "stay home."

1 - While I did not personally talk w/ Ken's parents, his friends did express their concerns about Ken in front of me. You most certainly know them. I remained anonomous for their sake. Am not trying to trash Ken. I admire him. Just trying to get through his thick skull as his friends are trying. One companion said maybe I could get through to him from my position as a searcher. The companion who swore never to hike with him again. Another stated that if this hike did not kill him, the next one will. Maybe it really is none of my business, as you stated. You apparently know him better than I. He could care less about me if he cares little about his own family and friends.

2 - Not complaining about SAR one bit. Where in my message did you gather that impression? I do it for the reasons stated earlier. I'm sorry to hear you walked away from it. Why? We need all the help we can get. How long did you do it and where?

[Homer&Marje]

Don't think too hard there... homer is a little lost himself

great post and approach to sar. thanks for your service

Now I'm really lost cause I haven't even figured out that I am lost yet

It's OK for people to agree with me Tin Man....Even you have dabbled in it before. Most people brush it off to temporary insanity. But I must be doing something right...survived till now

[Egads]

Ken - I and many others spent Friday, Friday night, and all day Saturday looking for you. I admire your independence and accomplishments in a seeing world with your visual impairments.

I learned from two of your close friends that you have been lost before for three days on logging roads in Maine. I also learned from them that you are prone to falling, losing equipment, and veering off the trail quite frequently. And I gather from this thread that you are somewhat of a mule-headed maverick. So am I.

Do you not realize that all people have limitations, regardless of sight? Not knowing and realizing one's own limitations is a recipe for disaster. That is what keeps the SAR business in business.

I saw your parents walking up to the SAR base on the parkway Friday, and it broke my heart to think what they must be going through. Being as you were missing since Sunday, I and your friends realized the possibility was high that there was not going to be a positive outcome, despite all our best efforts.

I and many others continued searching through the night not just for your sake, but for the sake of your parents, family and friends. Do you know how hard it is for a parent not to have closure until a body is found?

Please reconsider your reluctance to accept assistance from friends on the trail who want to help. A little bit of help on the trail beforehand would have averted the tons of resources expended to find you. I'm sorry we did not locate you sooner. And it is ironic that it was your own actions that got you into the situation and eventually your own actions that led to you getting out of the situation.

I would like to know more about your days off the trail in an effort to more effectively search for people in the future. I'm not advocating you give up hiking Ken, just give up your short-sightedness (not the vision kind). In fact, I'd like to hike with you in the future. How about next winter on the AT here?

Quoting Clint Eastwood, "A man's got to know their limits".

[Engine]

since we're not on topic at all, I'd like to chime in that I've followed colter on here and his website and am immensely impressed with his pursuits (and sagacious advice/tips here and there) (obviously my subjective opinion).

Obviously his CDT hike wasn't the 1,000 alaskan bush miles, but have you been to most of new mexico or wyoming? I can't speak to Colorado or Montana but for NM and Wyom, there ain't shi* for many many miles!! Sure there isn't much (read: ANY) "true wilderness" (5 days on foot (and I'll leave open my definition of what 5 days on foot is so I can rebuke any statement of yours about where such wilderness may be in the 48)) in the lower 48 but don't kid yourself that when you say that the CDT doesn't have any real wilderness most people will disagree with you. Seems like you'd frequently be on a lengthy explanation when talking about wilderness with folks if you didn't make it clear from the onset what wilderness is to you.

no you're not a noob, for sure, but.. whew, its like correcting people who talk about having had a cold ice cream or beer cause your idea of 'actually cold' is -335 kelvin. okieeee...........

I know, and that's why I decided to let it go. There are some vast tracts of land in the west that have very little human influence. I own property in the Shirley basin of Wyoming and even with roads you might die before you ever saw another person. We can however, agree to disagree on what reall wilderness is and I think Colter knows what I mean (he may not agree with me, but I think he'll be able to grasp my view) since he's actually done 1,000 miles in Alaska. Jak, with his experience in nortern Canada probably does as well.

[Engine]

Oh, and by the way, my Guinness isn't cold until it's exactly 38*. Maybe one day we can share one while trekking in some "near" wilderness.

[rickb]

This hiker could see, just not very well.

What ever happened to the totally blind hiker who was going to do the Trail solo, with Just a GPS?

Interesting to revisit people's opinions on that one.

Most on the net said that was a good idea.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/show...ind+GPS&page=2

At least L Wolf was consistent in his views.

Big difference hiking with a vision impairment and being totally blind, though.

[Tin Man]

Mike Hanson put his hike off another year. He said he wants to raise $100K or something to create a documentary film of his hike...

www.blindhiker.com