I love Neo-air!

[Tipi Walter]

Hope this doesn't happen to mine when I finally get it

Wow--the first actual photograph I've seen of "delamination"!! I started using Thermarest pads around 1981 and over the years have had many of them and basically lived on them, whether in tents or bedroll camps or up at the Tipi where I used a series of Camps Rests(now called the Base Camp).

In all those years I had about 3-4 pads delaminate and produce an air bubble as shown in your post. The outside fabric pulls away from the inner foam core, or whatever is used to keep it attached, making sleeping on it nearly impossible. I spent many nights hunched over a big air bubble trying to sleep--details(and cursings)are not forthcoming.

I emailed Thermy about it 2 years ago and they told me it's due to long "overuse" and "body oils". A year before that I took in a bladdered Camp Rest to Footsloggers, an outdoor store in Boone, NC. The clerk asked me, "Do you use this pad all the time?", as if constant use somehow negates the warranty. I stood my ground and demanded a replacement, fed up with all the delaminated Thermarests I have owned. He finally called Cascade Designs and they told him to give me a brand new Camp Rest, as the bladder was a manufacturing defect. He did so reluctantly. Hooray. So I got a new pad.

[Engine]

Wow--the first actual photograph I've seen of "delamination"!! I started using Thermarest pads around 1981 and over the years have had many of them and basically lived on them, whether in tents or bedroll camps or up at the Tipi where I used a series of Camps Rests(now called the Base Camp).

In all those years I had about 3-4 pads delaminate and produce an air bubble as shown in your post. The outside fabric pulls away from the inner foam core, or whatever is used to keep it attached, making sleeping on it nearly impossible. I spent many nights hunched over a big air bubble trying to sleep--details(and cursings)are not forthcoming.

I emailed Thermy about it 2 years ago and they told me it's due to long "overuse" and "body oils". A year before that I took in a bladdered Camp Rest to Footsloggers, an outdoor store in Boone, NC. The clerk asked me, "Do you use this pad all the time?", as if constant use somehow negates the warranty. I stood my ground and demanded a replacement, fed up with all the delaminated Thermarests I have owned. He finally called Cascade Designs and they told him to give me a brand new Camp Rest, as the bladder was a manufacturing defect. He did so reluctantly. Hooray. So I got a new pad.

Why would he be reluctant? Didn't Cascade Designs eat the cost of honoring the warranty? Overall it sounds like poor customer relations from everyone involved. As for the NeoAir failures, I've been lucky with the 2 we have, but lots haven't and it bugs me that Therm-A-Rest hasn't had a recall or at least halted production until the problems are solved.

As I said, I love the product and it is truly great compared to older pads, but I understand the undercurrent of angst with it.

[tacedeous]

I almost wish i could make mine do this in the first 4 or 5 inches... make for a great pillow, with no added weight... throw some fleece on top and your cookin with fire!

[Jester2000]

I came up with NoxiousAir, a bright orange pad filled with dioxin gas. Very light. And then there's the Spermarest, the only pad filled with yak and bison semen. When sleeping on big mammal ejaculate makes all the difference. Caution when inflating by mouth due to unfortunate blowback, and ovulating females should never use this pad.

Prior to denigrating a new product I must ask how much experience you have with it? I've spent multiple nights on a NeoAir and it is a great product that increases comfort by an order of magnitude over earlier products. Take one out for a week or two and then give us an INFORMED opinion.

Whether you like Tipi Walter or not, whether you like the Neoair or not, how a person could not find the first quote hilarious is absolutely beyond me.

[daylaandjasper]

I had a delamination bubble develop on my old thermareast Ultralite 3/4. It developed after my AT 01 thru and a summer of ridgerunning- sent it to cascade Designs and they sent me a new one no questions asked. And now its sitting in the closet, brand new hardly used cause the Prolite 3 came out and was WAY lighter. And now that's sitting in the closet (with mulitple successful patches (used on the PCT)) and being the gear whore I am I have a brand new Long neoair. I'm getting too old to sleep with my feet on my pack. And I'm a side sleeper.

[Survivor Dave]

I went to REI just to check it out and there were none available in the 4 Metro Atlanta stores. Apparantly they are in high demand as someone decided to "remove" the demo as well.

Yeah, it's a great idea, but will wait until they have completely fixed the leak and delamination problems and come down in price. Let's say by 30%.

[Rocketman]

Yeah, it's a great idea, but will wait until they have completely fixed the leak and delamination problems and come down in price. Let's say by 30%.

Did you see the new Thermarest "Trail" line, the low cost bottom end line.

I saw a 48"X20"X1" one of these in my local Gander Mountain for $29.99. They were also in the local backpacking store, but I didn't check the price there.

They weigh less than 1 pound, I thought the short length one was 13 ounces for that $29.99 price.

Dave. I think that there is no need at all for Thermarest to lower the price of the top of the line lightweight champ. Wishful thinking to want a 30% cut.

Thermarest is taking on the low cost heavy junk head on. They just might well win at the top and bottom ends of the price points. I am impressed with the breadth of this 2009 bunch of models.

[Survivor Dave]

Did you see the new Thermarest "Trail" line, the low cost bottom end line.

I saw a 48"X20"X1" one of these in my local Gander Mountain for $29.99. They were also in the local backpacking store, but I didn't check the price there.

They weigh less than 1 pound, I thought the short length one was 13 ounces for that $29.99 price.

Dave. I think that there is no need at all for Thermarest to lower the price of the top of the line lightweight champ. Wishful thinking to want a 30% cut.

Thermarest is taking on the low cost heavy junk head on. They just might well win at the top and bottom ends of the price points. I am impressed with the breadth of this 2009 bunch of models.

I need a full length pad. Actually, in a few months there will probably be sales going on at the major outlets and stores. With the REI discount or others, I will probably get it below $100.

I am pretty happy with the Prolite 4 I've been toting around for 3 years, but if I can cut weight, I will.

[Dr O]

I went to REI just to check it out and there were none available in the 4 Metro Atlanta stores. Apparantly they are in high demand as someone decided to "remove" the demo as well.

Yeah, it's a great idea, but will wait until they have completely fixed the leak and delamination problems and come down in price. Let's say by 30%.

I bought the last one at the REI in Kennesaw

[10-K]

I went to REI just to check it out and there were none available in the 4 Metro Atlanta stores. Apparantly they are in high demand as someone decided to "remove" the demo as well.

Yeah, it's a great idea, but will wait until they have completely fixed the leak and delamination problems and come down in price. Let's say by 30%.

You can use this coupon at backcountry.com until July 6th for a 15% discount - not 30% but better than 0%.

4ah-1-ycpf2

[Survivor Dave]

You can use this coupon at backcountry.com until July 6th for a 15% discount - not 30% but better than 0%.

4ah-1-ycpf2

Thanks. I just got a liner from them with the same coupon. They don't give you much time. Yes, 15% is better than zero!

[Mrs Baggins]

My husband just returned from 4 days/3 nights in the Marble Mts area of northern California. First time out with his new Neo Air (I have one as well but haven't been out with it yet) and he absolutely loved it! He said he'd never slept so well. He didn't use his Gossamer Gear pad with it as he didn't want to carry it. The temps were in the upper 40's at night and he was plenty warm enough (REI Halo bag) and he had no problems with it being noisy (the rustling noises some report). Prior to the Neo we were using BA insulated air core pads. He far prefers the Neo.