Down or Synthetic?

[nox]

Do you only hike? I canoe (flip canoes) and raft (flip rafts). So I go with synthetic since I have more of a chance of getting it wet. If you aren't planning on dumping it in a river and you only need to worry about condensation, then down makes sense.

[JoeHiker]

As nox2825 indicated, a big factor in the decsion is how you are using it.

Personally, I only hike and I only sleep in a hammock. For me, down was the obvious choice. I have never even come close to getting my down quilt wet in those conditions. (that's the top quilt. I suppose the underquilt might be a different matter but I put a weathershield on mine)/. The main thing is I don't have to worry about water running into my tent or anything like that.

Now there is the possibility of condensation under a tarp or things like that but these days you can buy bags with water-resistant treatments on the outside that make this not much of a consideration.

Still, all it takes is one mistake to really screw you up if you have down. And I have never hiked for more than two weeks consecutively. Since you are looking at the entire AT, that's different. Since you are considering a bag, not a quilt, I must assume you are not going to be in a hammock.

In that case, given all that, it's probably safest to deal with the extra few ounces and go just synthetic.

[brooklynkayak]

Do you only hike? I canoe (flip canoes) and raft (flip rafts). So I go with synthetic since I have more of a chance of getting it wet. If you aren't planning on dumping it in a river and you only need to worry about condensation, then down makes sense.

I do paddle trips as much as backpack. I use single wall shelters and I trek in wet North Atlantic coastal areas.
I use a down bag. I double drybag it in my kayak. It has a water resistant shell.

I have never had an issue with my bag getting very wet. The one time it did was when I rolled over into a puddle. The bag was a little damp, but body heat evaporated it by the time I got up.

I keep hearing about these synthetic bags that are almost as light and packable as down, but I have yet to see one. For now I have to use a down bag as a synthetic bag that is warm enough is too heavy and packs too big.

[Summit]

I have always used and prefer synthetic sleeping bags because I rely on my sleeping bag as a clothes dryer when needed - not a good idea with down bags. The weight differential between equally rated bags has gotten a lot less, with the latest synthetic bags less than a pound heavier than the same temp rated down bag. Not to mention I don't like getting poked by quills!

[nox]

The new Primaloft Infinity bags are about as close to down as far as feel and weight. I recently bought the new EMS Boreal 20 and it weighs 3lbs, packs a little bigger than a football and fluffs up to about 5" of loft. I haven't taken it out in the cold to see if it lives up to it's rating yet but i have never had a problem with any EMS gear.

[neo]

Down,Down,Down

i agreedown rocksneo

[saimyoji]

Why not the best of both worlds? Get a down bag for winter then switch to a 40 degree synthetic in summer.

Yep. S'wat i do.

I think a synthetic over quilt over a down bag makes sense in extreme cold winter where you can have condensation problems in the outer layer of the bag. IE it would settle and freeze in the over quilt rather than the outer layer of the down bag.

In the summer a synthetic quilt makes a lot of sense.

actually, layering over a down bag is a bad idea. You'll just compress the puffy down, reducing the insulative ability. Down bags all have DWR coatings to deal with condensation. If the condensation is so bad in your tent that your bag is soaking through, your problem probably lies elsewhere. You can add insulative layers inside the down bag that will work, like a down jacket.

I have always used and prefer synthetic sleeping bags because I rely on my sleeping bag as a clothes dryer when needed - not a good idea with down bags. The weight differential between equally rated bags has gotten a lot less, with the latest synthetic bags less than a pound heavier than the same temp rated down bag. Not to mention I don't like getting poked by quills!

there are so many things wrong with this post, i'll just say this: you're wrong.

[tammons]

Yep. S'wat i do.
actually, layering over a down bag is a bad idea. You'll just compress the puffy down, reducing the insulative ability. Down bags all have DWR coatings to deal with condensation. If the condensation is so bad in your tent that your bag is soaking through, your problem probably lies elsewhere. You can add insulative layers inside the down bag that will work, like a down jacket.

You are not following what I am talking about.

In extreme cold, lets say a constant 5dF to -10dF or below, when you sleep in a sleeping bag alone body moisture permeates through the bag. The condensation side of the fabric is inside of the bag on the outer shell surface. Condensation builds up there inside your bag and it freezes and cyles over and over again. If you use a synthetic over quilt, and if it is Somewhat loose made out of sul ripstop with XP or primaloft it will not compress a down bag that it will make any real difference.

That said when using an overquilt it moves the frozen condensation layer out to the synthetic quilt instead of inside your down bag where it is easier to deal with and your down bag stays dry.

Of course you could wear a vapor barrier and you would not have condensation inside the bag at all.

[brooklynkayak]

The new Primaloft Infinity bags are about as close to down as far as feel and weight. I recently bought the new EMS Boreal 20 and it weighs 3lbs, packs a little bigger than a football and fluffs up to about 5" of loft. I haven't taken it out in the cold to see if it lives up to it's rating yet but i have never had a problem with any EMS gear.

That's good to know. I know in the past, synthetic would loose it's loft after repeated packing. Down would retain it's loft much longer after repeated squishings.
Has there been any improvement there? I'd heard that the original Primaloft suffered from this loss of loft over time.

[Summit]

there are so many things wrong with this post, i'll just say this: you're wrong.

And let me just add . . . provide proof that I'm wrong and in what ways? I guess my experience is lying to me! Maybe I should bow down to a superior know-it-all!

[Tilly]

My wife and I just completed our thru hike (March 3 to September 23) using 40 and 15 degree down bags. We never had a problem despite the fact that this was a very rainy year to hike the AT.

We both used flex garbage bags as pack liners which kept our bags and other contents dry.

Yup. Horrifically rainy year. I questioned trail runners and almost bought waterproof hiking boots and gaitors, but not once did I question having a down sleeping bag. Making the switch never crossed my mind.

[saimyoji]

And let me just add . . . provide proof that I'm wrong and in what ways? I guess my experience is lying to me! Maybe I should bow down to a superior know-it-all!

well, i can't speak about what experiences you think you had....i can tell you that you are the first person i've ever heard of prefering synthetic over down for the reasons you've stated....

...drying damp/wet clothes with a down bag....done it many times, in fact got the idea from someone here on WB.

...weight differential...down still wins every time

...quills???? please....seek help.

[saimyoji]

well, i can't speak about what experiences you think you had....i can tell you that you are the first person i've ever heard of prefering synthetic over down for the reasons you've stated....

...drying damp/wet clothes with a down bag....done it many times, in fact got the idea from someone here on WB.

...weight differential...down still wins every time

...quills???? please....seek help.

and let me add that i don't care what you prefer, just letting you know that you're wrong....because you are.....



....wrong that is.


Peace be with you brother.

http://api.ning.com/files/Nh2C*gJhYh..._Appendage.jpg

[Summit]

well, i can't speak about what experiences you think you had....i can tell you that you are the first person i've ever heard of prefering synthetic over down for the reasons you've stated....

...drying damp/wet clothes with a down bag....done it many times, in fact got the idea from someone here on WB.

...weight differential...down still wins every time

...quills???? please....seek help.

Well, not having used a down bag myself I can't speak to how drying wet clothes in them affects the bag's insulating ability. I think it was Mags (correct me if wrong) who said he dries damp clothes in one but wouldn't dry soaked ones.

I did agree there was a slight (not as much as used to be) weight advantage to down. I checked on REI and in their ultralight sleeping bags section found two +15 degree bags, with the down weighing 2 lbs 8 oz, and the synthetic weighing 3 lbs 1 oz, well within what I stated in my horribly "wrong" post.

The quills thing was mostly just a joke, although I did read on a post within the last year here someone saying that down feathers poking through and having to be pushed back in was their only negative about down bags.

So I think it is perfectly fine for you and others to disagree with which you prefer to use, but to declare me totally wrong is arrogant, silly, and . . . well . . . wrong!

Peace to you too!

[saimyoji]

Well, not having used a down bag myself I can't speak to how drying wet clothes in them affects the bag's insulating ability. I think it was Mags (correct me if wrong) who said he dries damp clothes in one but wouldn't dry soaked ones.

I did agree there was a slight (not as much as used to be) weight advantage to down. I checked on REI and in their ultralight sleeping bags section found two +15 degree bags, with the down weighing 2 lbs 8 oz, and the synthetic weighing 3 lbs 1 oz, well within what I stated in my horribly "wrong" post.

The quills thing was mostly just a joke, although I did read on a post within the last year here someone saying that down feathers poking through and having to be pushed back in was their only negative about down bags.

So I think it is perfectly fine for you and others to disagree with which you prefer to use, but to declare me totally wrong is arrogant, silly, and . . . well . . . wrong!

Peace to you too!

so you've never actually used a down bag, but consider yourself qualified to suggest that synthetic is better? wow.....just.....wow. and then you call me names like silly, arrogant? you've got issues bud.

[tammons]

I dont think there is anything wrong with down.
Nothing wrong with synthetic either.
Each has good and bad qualities.

I will say if they ever come up with a synthetic insulation that has the same qualities, stuffs as small and lasts as long as down, but dries faster when wet and does not lose its loft when wet, I will be the first in line.

I am sure its just around the corner.

[saimyoji]

I dont think there is anything wrong with down.
Nothing wrong with synthetic either.
Each has good and bad qualities.

I will say if they ever come up with a synthetic insulation that has the same qualities, stuffs as small and lasts as long as down, but dries faster when wet and does not lose its loft when wet, I will be the first in line.

I am sure its just around the corner.

don't forget cheaper.

[tammons]

Gees you are telling me. If you are buying around 20-35dF down bags they are not too bad. Into the expedition range and holy smokes they are super expensive.

That said in 1977 or 1978 I bought a snowlion top of the line -40 down bag, 1.9 oz ripstop and 4# even, for around $500. Wonder what that is in todays money 30 years later.

A expedition bag now would be cheaper for sure adjusting for inflation.

Still have it and its in good shape considering its age. Never really use it anymore though.

I used to take trips out to Colorado and NM a lot.

[Bulldawg]

Gees you are telling me. If you are buying around 20-35dF down bags they are not too bad. Into the expedition range and holy smokes they are super expensive.

That said in 1977 or 1978 I bought a snowlion top of the line -40 down bag, 1.9 oz ripstop and 4# even, for around $500. Wonder what that is in todays money 30 years later.

A expedition bag now would be cheaper for sure adjusting for inflation.

Still have it and its in good shape considering its age. Never really use it anymore though.

I used to take trips out to Colorado and NM a lot.

And I would imagine not very UL worthy either?

[Tin Man]

I have always used and prefer synthetic sleeping bags because I rely on my sleeping bag as a clothes dryer when needed - not a good idea with down bags. The weight differential between equally rated bags has gotten a lot less, with the latest synthetic bags less than a pound heavier than the same temp rated down bag. Not to mention I don't like getting poked by quills!

personally, i avoid porcupines, but whatever turns you on