How much "compression" can a down sleeping bag handle long term?

[crazypete]

Good morning fellow hikers =)

I like to keep my pack preloaded with everything including trail clothing ready to go. I have a bunch of open space at the bottom so I can use a sea to summit 20 litre waterproof stuff sack basically fully extended along the bottom without any real compression. I have a marmot helium and while I do have to push the bag down to get it into the stuff sack, its not compressed like a compression sack. Can I store it like this?

How much breathing room does down really need?

[garlic08]

Good morning. I have a Marmot Helium, too, and I think it's the best bag made in its price range. I consider it a long-term investment and I really baby mine, so I store it with as much loft and ventilation as possible and wouldn't do what you're doing if I had space to hang it. How much time does it really take to pack it? One or two minutes? If you're seriously short of space and time, you're probably not doing a noticeable amount of damage as long as it's clean and dry, but why risk it?

[buz]

As a life long down bag user, I second garlic's wise post. I have my first 20 degree bag, it is 35+ years old, and in really good shape. Never compressed except when in use, always hung in closet, still a 20 degree bag, weighs 4 pounds thou, bomber nylon rip stop the weight culprit. Anyway, find a nice place for your bag, non compressed at all. It is the best thing for the down. Or just empty your pack of all the other stuff and leave your bag in there alone. Don't compress it.

[crazypete]

I have ulterior motives =)

I use my actual food, fuel and 2 litre of water laden packed pack for my afternoon practice hikes. It gets my shoulders used to the actual weight distribution I will be seeing on trail. I dont want to have to pack and unpack each time. I just want to toss it on and go and put it down when I get back.

Plus, it REALLY makes packing for a trip easy....grab and go.

[crazypete]

Oh well....I was hoping. I'll just pack my rei kilo zero in this horrendous fashion instead. It was already subjected to compression horrors before and leaks feathers like a siv (which is why I am replacing it) so it will be my sacrificial practice bag.

[Jonnycat]

So leave the bag hanging in the closet and put something in it's stuff sack to approximate it's weight and size.

When it's time to go, swap out the fake bag for the real bag and in five minutes you're out the door.

[crazypete]

Its all so simple until one time, you run out the door, grab your pack and find yourself on top of a mountain with a stuffsack containing 2 towels and a liter of water instead of your sleeping bag.

OOPS! I forgot to load my sleeping bag.

Did ok that night since it wasnt particularly cold, I had my winter jacket and heck, I had an extra litre of water to boot. Plus if it rained, I had plenty of towels to dry off with.

[Rocketman]

Buy two outfits...

One should be in a really ugly color backpack, perhaps died at home to something hideous. Instead of your down bag, on this one, you put in a dummy weight and volume item.

Then, be sure that the "real" pack is of a nice color, and keep the down bag outside of that one. When you are ready to go hiking, swap out the ugly outfit for the good looking one, and put the down bag into the good looking one as well.

Convenience is not without a price.

Or ignore what everyone says is "good for the bag" and treat it as you proposed. This is the least demanding option.

I suffer from these mental lapses myself. Taking the Fenwick spinning rod when I meannt to take the Fenwick Fly Rod.... and they both have essentially identical cases.

So, I got some blaze orange paint and pretty much painted up the spinning rod case. Really, it was just the white end caps. Now, there was no more confusion even though the rod cases were stored side by side.

So, the UGLY TRICK works, for me, anyway.

[crazypete]

Getting old sucks =P

I'm getting senile at 32. LOL! Well at least this way, I'll end up with a loft challenged zero degree bag that I can sweat bullets inside and get covered in feathers so I'll emerge the next day from my tent and give my fellow hikers a good laugh.

[Mrs Baggins]

Oh well....I was hoping. I'll just pack my rei kilo zero in this horrendous fashion instead. It was already subjected to compression horrors before and leaks feathers like a siv (which is why I am replacing it) so it will be my sacrificial practice bag.

I've had my REI SubKilo since 2006. It's been in it's loft bag at all times when I'm not on the trail. And it also leaks feathers, especially all around the hood. I don't think compression has anything to do with that. Just design problems. My husband has had his just as long, kept it lofted just as often, and it does not leak feathers. So who knows.

[Jayboflavin04]

I am with the rest of ya....store it loose in its storage bag. Over compression is bad also...compression stuff sacks!

[crazypete]

I've had my REI SubKilo since 2006. It's been in it's loft bag at all times when I'm not on the trail. And it also leaks feathers, especially all around the hood. I don't think compression has anything to do with that. Just design problems. My husband has had his just as long, kept it lofted just as often, and it does not leak feathers. So who knows.

My first and replacement kilo bags all leak feathers. It killed it for me. My whole tent was covered. My clothes were covered. I was finding feathers all over the gear closet.

Plus the bag is tight.

I am hoping the extra space in the marmot....and man is there a lot of extra space over the kilo.....will let me get some dead air and let me wear some extra layers and I can use my marmot 15 in similar settings as my kilo zero.

[garlic08]

I am hoping the extra space in the marmot....and man is there a lot of extra space over the kilo.....will let me get some dead air and let me wear some extra layers and I can use my marmot 15 in similar settings as my kilo zero.

I once tested a heavy Sierra Designs 0F bag in my backyard on a zero F night and compared it on the same night to my Helium 15. Not too much difference, especially given the weight difference. Just a little colder, but survivable, at zero. I've had the Helium out on multiday trips in low teens in complete comfort. I think you'll like it--take care of it!

[Ranc0r]

I guess the part I do not understand is why you would want to subject your nice bag to continual compression for the sake of a practice hike. I "practice" with the old Jansport external frame and 2 gallons of water OR a 15 lb. bench weight. I hike with a much better pack. I keep my sleeping quilt (sorry, I Don't use a bag anymore when temps are expected to be over 20 degress F) in a huge storage bag, not in it's stuff sack. I do not keep my nice base layers loaded in the training pack. I do not keep food in the training pack, unless it's a single spare Snicker's bar, and I know full well that the water is ballast, and will taste stale and flat.

That said, I can get my base pack together in 20 minutes. Then I ponder how much water, food, and whether to add the under quilt to the HH or take the tent and Therma-Rest. Regardless of weather and trip duration, I can be out the door in 35 minutes, longer if I want to seriously second guess and strip weight to a bare minimum.

I'm a big fan of "fight like you train", and "the more you bleed in training, the less you bleed in combat", but I don't subject my good gear to as much wear and tear as I am able, when I'm not even on the trail.

May your mileage always vary.

Ranc0r
.

[cowboy nichols]

I keep my pack ready all the time and throw it in the car anytime I going any distance. Two things I do just before leaving is put in food .COFFEE water & my Marmot down bag. 5 min. tho I don't hurry any more. my bag is at least 15 years old and had a lot of use still looks great and I've never been cold. I use a silk liner also which helps keep the bag clean longer. Well I guess that is4 things.

[crazypete]

Allright guys, you've convinced me....

I'll keep the bag seperate and just load up before I go. I attach a huge orange note to my pack that says "load your bag, fool!"

[humunuku]

here's a different opinion...anyone ever see how bags are shipped from the manufacturer and stored at retailers (not the ones on display), from what ive seen, most are in a plastic bag (maybe 20-25 liter) that are significantly smaller than the provided storage sack. Not saying this is good or bad - but i would suggest all bags are stored slightly compressed for some time (months or years) before the consumer buys it.

[crazypete]

...........and I'm pretty sure the down is builk shipped in less than ideal ways to the manufacturer too

The laws of economics tells me its true.

Actually, my kilo zero has been preloaded for a month now. I'm gonna pull it out and see what loft it has.

(yay, feathers all over the bedroom)

Yeah, it lofted up ok....like 3 1/2...3 3/4 inches.

[Jonnycat]

Allright guys, you've convinced me....

I'll keep the bag seperate and just load up before I go. I attach a huge orange note to my pack that says "load your bag, fool!"

Attach a section of blaze pink surveyor's ribbon to your "dummy bag", and extend it a foot or two outside of your pack.

If you go to grab the pack without your bag in it, the ribbon should remind you.

[Wise Old Owl]

You only forget once and discover how really bad mylar space blankets are.