Does Permethrin work?

[lostjohn]

This stuff sounds good, but does it work. I'm talking about the permethrin that you apply to your own clothes. There is some on the market that is supposed to last 2 washings and 2 weeks and the same company has some (for about the same price) that is supposed to last 6 washings and 6 weeks.

thanks.

[Connie]

I think permathin used in BuzzOff clothing and other brand names, and sold to the public, is a bad thing: permathin kills bees instantly !

I was on a horse, the owner had sprayed with a permathin product for horses.

The horseflys would bite out a big bite. The horse would bleed.

The fly might get woozy and drop over, finally.

But a bee ..it seemed like a "whiff" of permathin knocked 'em right out of the air !

Montana bees are used for crops all over the country.

Practically everyone stopped using permathin here !

[orangebug]

It is good, in that it is effective and safe for humans. It is applied to clothing as enzymes in skin will degrade it quickly.

Given that, how well does it serve to avoid bug bites? The US Army and others think it does, even though other skin may be exposed. I prefer DEET, but permathrine makes some sense as a weight saver - placing a resupply in a bounce box and retreating every month or two.

Bill...

[Mr. Clean]

Don't know how well it works on bugs, but it makes me itch.

[prozac]

I like to double down and use Permathin and Deet. Permathin is supposedly safer to use and I periodically will take my clothes and spray them down and then let them sit in a plastic bag over night. The manufacturer claims this will give you 100% coverage on all your clothes and it will last longer. Deet to me is alittle bit scarier and I only like to use it sparingly when I'm hiking in weeds or brush. So far I've experienced no real tick problems but maybe I've just been lucky.

[frankcornbread]

Not familiar w/ Permethrin, very familiar w/ DEET. DEET works well for me, but as of late I have learned of it's degrading activity on waterproof/breatheable fabric and subsequently discontinued use. DEET on the skin will transfer to clothing and breakdown the waterproof coating. Some coatings, I should add, not all. This from fly fishing, Simms waders are not affected but Patagonia waders are. DEET also melts lacquer on guide wraps and vinyl on most anything. Like car seats. So I just decided to quit using it. Anything that will dissolve a car seat is not welcome as a skin care product. This season I have been using Natrapel Plus. Works OK. Not as foolproof as good old Cutters, but good enough. Seems safer for long term use because of natural ingredients. Definitely safer for my waders and rainwear. It is somewhat heavier, though and a little slow to dry. Has a citronella fragrance which reminds me of camping out as a kid. Treasure the memories, still don't much care for the smell.
FC

[SGT Rock]

Permethrin works, but it is only made for clothing. It would work on the skin, but it won;t stick to human skin and only lasts a few minutes if applied that way. I imagine it worked on horses for the same reason that it works on cloth. DEET is not ment to poison insects, only to mask CO2. It doesn't work so well on clothing for the simple fact that clothing doesn't put out CO2 anyway, and the other fact that most clothing we use these days are synthetics and DEET breaks down the synthetics. The Army (and I think all the other services since we generally use the same supplier) are now starting to have just about all field uniforms and some field equipment come with an initial coating of Permethrin already on. General guidance for soldiers is to use DEET only on explosed skin and away from the eyes or mouth.

[sloetoe]

Did a 6 week trip this summer, starting on the Canadian border ~July 4th. The skeeters were *smeared*, not swatted, and before your hand hit your other wrist, they were already hitting your elbow again. And drilling STRAIGHT THROUGH the DEET.

In resolving some gear issues, I bought my kids some ExOfficio BUGOFF zip-off pants with the woven-in Permithrin.

Worked wonders. In the next 4 weeks, there was no rash (no undies, either), and not a single insect, on the kids pants. Hundreds of miles, a healthy amount of rain (some every day for 3/4s of the time), and a couple of laundry washings -- and skeeters/black files right to the last day.

$50.00 a pop for KIDS [!] zip-off pants. Money well spent.
Sloetoe

[attroll]

Did a 6 week trip this summer, starting on the Canadian border ~July 4th. The skeeters were *smeared*, not swatted, and before your hand hit your other wrist, they were already hitting your elbow again. And drilling STRAIGHT THROUGH the DEET.

In resolving some gear issues, I bought my kids some ExOfficio BUGOFF zip-off pants with the woven-in Permithrin.

Worked wonders. In the next 4 weeks, there was no rash (no undies, either), and not a single insect, on the kids pants. Hundreds of miles, a healthy amount of rain (some every day for 3/4s of the time), and a couple of laundry washings -- and skeeters/black files right to the last day.

$50.00 a pop for KIDS [!] zip-off pants. Money well spent.
Sloetoe

Where would one look to find this product?

[gravityman]

Where would one look to find this product?

You can find a spray-on can of permithrin at most outdoor stores. We bought a can at EMS before we hit the long trail. It doesn't cover as much material as it claims. Also no so sure how much it really helped, but we were never bothered by the bugs the whole time (July 24th-August 12th).

Gravity Man

[tlbj6142]

Ortho also makes a concentrate 2.5% permithrin to kill ants(?). Just add 1.5 parts water to 1 part Ortho and you'll end up with a 0.75% solution (if I did my math right). The spray on stuff is 0.8%.

I've heard that some folks mix up a batch in a resealable bucket (old detergent?, 5 gallon bucket, etc.), dunk their clothing, tent, pack, etc. in the solution. Wring out the item and let it dry. Seal up the bucket and saving for later.

The ExOfficio stuff is just pre-treated. I don't think the end results would be different if you treated your existing gear or bought new ExOfficio stuff.

[gravityman]

Ortho also makes a concentrate 2.5% permithrin to kill ants(?). Just add 1.5 parts water to 1 part Ortho and you'll end up with a 0.75% solution (if I did my math right). The spray on stuff is 0.8%.

I've heard that some folks mix up a batch in a resealable bucket (old detergent?, 5 gallon bucket, etc.), dunk their clothing, tent, pack, etc. in the solution. Wring out the item and let it dry. Seal up the bucket and saving for later.

The ExOfficio stuff is just pre-treated. I don't think the end results would be different if you treated your existing gear or bought new ExOfficio stuff.

I've always wondered about this. I assume that the spray on stuff is chemically altered to bind with the clothing, and the ortho stuff isn't. But I might be giving the manufacturer too much credit. It only there was a good way to test it...

Gravity Man

[Toolshed]

TLBJ
You are speaking of a water soluble product, that, if it does not include an emulsifier is probably a wettable powder which will not be absorbed by clothing, but sit on the fibers and end up falling (or being brushed off) or else wash off with sweat or rain.

If it includes an emulsifier, (a surfactant which reduces surface tension of water and allows the oil based concentrate to dilute in water) then you will be OK. The way to tell is to look at the label - It will likely say Permithrin WP (wettable powder) or Permithrin EC (emulsifiable concentrate)

I think if anything, the EC would work much better once it is absorbed into the fibers and dries.

[Bob S]

I’m sold on it

I have been using it for a few years, it’s great stuff and will give you protection that is 100% on your clothes. Add some DEET for exposed skin and bugs won’t bite you at all.

Fly’s still zoomed around me when I was up in Bug-central (Michigan’s UP in July) but no bites from them or mosquitoes.

Who cares if Permethrin kills bees? I don’t plan on spraying any bees with it so it’s a non issue as bees don’t try to suck my blood or bite me. They leave me alone, and I leave them alone.

[take-a-knee]

I’m sold on it

I have been using it for a few years, it’s great stuff and will give you protection that is 100% on your clothes. Add some DEET for exposed skin and bugs won’t bite you at all.

Fly’s still zoomed around me when I was up in Bug-central (Michigan’s UP in July) but no bites from them or mosquitoes.

Who cares if Permethrin kills bees? I don’t plan on spraying any bees with it so it’s a non issue as bees don’t try to suck my blood or bite me. They leave me alone, and I leave them alone.

Well, you should care about the bees Bob, cause they serve to keep us all alive and fed basically(remember pollination?). Don't use permethrin indiscriminantly around the house, and mainly don't spray it near anything that blooms to protect the bees. But by all means use it on your outdoor clothing because it works as advertised.

[Bob S]

Well, you should care about the bees Bob, cause they serve to keep us all alive and fed basically(remember pollination?). Don't use permethrin indiscriminantly around the house, and mainly don't spray it near anything that blooms to protect the bees. But by all means use it on your outdoor clothing because it works as advertised.

My point was not about it killing bees, it was about having it on your clothes and that bees don’t attack me when I’m out camping like mosquitoes & fly’s do, so again it’s a non-issue as it relates to how you apply it to your clothing.

How does my spraying it on my clothes have an effect on bees? It doesn’t

[orangebug]

There is also no evidence (credible evidence at least) of permethrin actually causing neurological injury in humans. Human skin deactivates the molecule, which is why it must be sprayed on clothing to have any benefit.

[AlwaysHiking]

Just something to think about in case anyone owns cats or rabbits and is thinking about using permethrin. Talk to your vet first, it's toxic to these pets and not recommended for use even if they're only exposed to it dried on clothing.

Also, it's toxic to fish so if you're using it, it's probably a good idea to stay out of water sources.

[kayak karl]

Just something to think about in case anyone owns cats or rabbits and is thinking about using permethrin. Talk to your vet first, it's toxic to these pets and not recommended for use even if they're only exposed to it dried on clothing.

Also, it's toxic to fish so if you're using it, it's probably a good idea to stay out of water sources.

i talked to my vet. he agrees. he said if you are exposed to ANY chemicals, garden, deet or work, do not bring clothes in house. dont leave them where pets can sleep on them. this made me think. i come home from work or hiking and throw my hat on bed and Ash (cat) is laying on it in no time.
thank for you post. made me think.
im only using permethrin on my thru. so i will definitly keep that stuff away from them

[The Cheat]

i talked to my vet. he agrees. he said if you are exposed to ANY chemicals, garden, deet or work, do not bring clothes in house. dont leave them where pets can sleep on them. this made me think. i come home from work or hiking and throw my hat on bed and Ash (cat) is laying on it in no time.
thank for you post. made me think.
im only using permethrin on my thru. so i will definitly keep that stuff away from them

Is it toxic to cats or does it just not work on cats? Permethrin is what is used in the once-a-month tick stuff for dogs. It works on dog skin because they don't metabolize it like we do (I think because they sweat different). It won't work on our skin for more than a few minutes (like Sgt. Rock said). Cat skin is probably alot more like ours than dogs.

Personally, I like Permethrin on my clothes, it works great. We live in tick central and I and my family haven't gotten Lyme disease since using it along with bug sparay on exposed skin. Permethrin on clothing and deet on exposed skin is ideal. I hate deet so I use Picardin. Almost as good, doesn't burn the skin, stinks less.

I understand about the bees, but this is a contact killer so they should not be affected.