Frameless Pack Questions

[JohnG10]

I'm thinking of making the jump to frameless, and have some questions.

Does using the CCF pad as buritto to pack your gear into offer better weight transfer than folding the pad into layers and putting it into a pad pocket along the back of the pack ?

Is it relatively easy to remove a 3/4 ridge rest from the pad pocket during rest stops & re-insert - or is it not worth the trouble ?

Does the Ray Jardine approach of putting the food at the bottom, quilt in the middle & cloths at the top tire you out (by causing more forward lean) any more than packing the pack with the weight (food) high instead ?

Is Silnylon durable enough if you don't drag the pack around (but don't baby it a lot either) or is the Dynema fabric (or 140, or 210 pack cloth) needed ?

Thanks.

[Many Walks]

We used Granite Gear Virga frameless packs for about 230 mi. on the AT then switched and only use them now at times in cooler mild weather. They are good for loads well under 30 lbs and the biggest issue we have with our frameless packs is in the heat of summer they are really hot and wet on our backs. We had Small Thermarest Pro Lite pads and loaded them burrito style with the gear inside to keep everything contained and pokey things off our backs. We tried them in the pocket, but the burrito worked a lot better for us. I prefer the heavier stuff like food and water on top, but you should try different ways to load your pack to see what works for you. We switched to Osprey Exos 58 to stay fairly light with plenty of room and they stay off our backs with ventilation. We also went with small Neo Air pads so no more burrito roll in the pack for us, but we don't need to. The Virgas are durable packs and can take some miles without being babied. Just one person's opinion and I hope it helps.

[Grinder]

I have a DIY gearskin. The first two times out, I folded the pad and put the "fillings" ( three dry bags: sleep, cloths and food) between the front and back. It was okay, but kind of wide.

Last hike, I coiled the pad and filled the pack from the top. Personally, I like it this way a lot. I have varied the position of the bags and don't see much difference. I think I wound up with the sleeping on the bottom, followed by clothes and finally food. I think I ended up that way to make food more accessible for lunch.

[Compass]

To have frameless and comfort keep entire pack load (gear, water, food) under 20 pounds. With a good pad rolled burrito style that does tend to work as a frame and will get you to 25 pounds with comfort. More weight than 25 pounds and it is worth a few ounces for a basic frame.

The "frame" puts the weight on your hips where it carries the best. Without a frame the weight will relentlesly hang on your shoulders. Most pads that fold into a pad pocket are easy to bend and therefore do not offer much support.

[sbhikes]

Does using the CCF pad as buritto to pack your gear into offer better weight transfer than folding the pad into layers and putting it into a pad pocket along the back of the pack ?

I don't think it makes any difference. I did both. In fact, I did both at the same time. I had half a z-rest and half a blue foam pad. The blue foam pad went inside and the z-rest in the back pad pocket.

I used the burrito method for a while, then found it was simpler to fold the blue pad and place it inside where it would go against my back.

The foam pad never provided very much actual support. It would end up crunched and misshapen. What provided support was keeping the load packed very tight. Sometimes I would have to repack if I didn't get it right.

I also resorted to putting a small stout stick inside the pack, crosswise against my back, cushioned by the foam pad. The stick was about 1 inch in diameter and was placed perpendicular to my spine at about mid-back level. Without it, I got a lot of pain. With it, the pain vanished.

Is it relatively easy to remove a 3/4 ridge rest from the pad pocket during rest stops & re-insert - or is it not worth the trouble ?

I didn't think it was easy enough to remove.

Does the Ray Jardine approach of putting the food at the bottom, quilt in the middle & cloths at the top tire you out (by causing more forward lean) any more than packing the pack with the weight (food) high instead ?

I put my sleeping bag at the bottom, clothes next, cookpot/stove and little bag of hygiene items next, food on top. I wouldn't want things I might need at the bottom. I didn't like the heaviest weight to be too low. Food was heaviest for me.

Is Silnylon durable enough if you don't drag the pack around (but don't baby it a lot either) or is the Dynema fabric (or 140, or 210 pack cloth) needed ?

I found my silnylon pack to be very durable. I did some crazy bushwhacking through chaparral and burned trees, getting hopelessly tangled and bloody. But my pack did great. The silnylon was unscathed. The mesh pockets had a couple of small tears, but I expected a lot worse.

It did get a small cut in the nylon eventually. From what, I do not know. Maybe from the lid on my pot. But the small cut never frayed or expanded.

[txag]

This is a blast from the past. Several years ago (35?) the coolest pack on the market was the Jensen pack but I couldn't afford it. Someone has bought the patterns and tooling and is making them again now.

http://www.rivendellmountainworks.com/index.html

Totally frameless. Your gear properly packed makes the support system. I bought the smaller pack but it is too large for a daypack and too small for what would be sufficient for me to be an overnighter. The Jumbo would probablly be more acceptable for backpacking.

Your sleeping bag in the bottom compartment provides the basis of support for everything else (and it does work). There is a long zipper and it has all the comforts and extras of an old design (none). Just another interesting option....

[Doooglas]

This is a blast from the past. Several years ago (35?) the coolest pack on the market was the Jensen pack but I couldn't afford it. Someone has bought the patterns and tooling and is making them again now.

http://www.rivendellmountainworks.com/index.html

Totally frameless. Your gear properly packed makes the support system. I bought the smaller pack but it is too large for a daypack and too small for what would be sufficient for me to be an overnighter. The Jumbo would probablly be more acceptable for backpacking.

Your sleeping bag in the bottom compartment provides the basis of support for everything else (and it does work). There is a long zipper and it has all the comforts and extras of an old design (none). Just another interesting option....

Interesting !
You mean this ?

[Doooglas]

That is the guy that sews them. Wearing MY pack.

[txag]

That is cool! I talked with him and got a "blem" pack in stock for a $10 discount! Looks like you got the larger one.

Do you have sufficient ventilation on your back in CR? I managed to be OK at 10,000' elevation. That is my only concern with this pack is with more humidity and lower elevations.